President Trump [Archive] - Bogley Outdoor Community

Scott P

02-22-2017, 08:44 PM

The US didn't start the war in the Middle East. The Middle East has been at war for 2000 years.

Actually for more than 4000 years (which is enough hindsight to know that we couldn't force a peaceful pro-US democracy there just because we got rid of Saddam). Just because a hornet's next exists and produces oil, doesn't mean we have to constantly poke it. We did contribute to the latest mess and refugee situation there; I don't think that can be argued.

Blaming the US is an extremely over simplification as the Second Gulf War was a direct result of the First Gulf War when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

Don't forget that the US armed and supported Saddam before the invasion.

And if you remember correctly Saddam was killing his own people in mass which was also part of the Second Gulf War, in other words the US was trying to be compassionate.

Saddam was also killing when the US was still supporting him. The gassing of the Kurds which was often mentioned as justification of the invasion actually happened in 1988 when Saddam when we were supporting him.

Anyway, this could lead to some very long conversations about the history of the region, but is off topic since Trump wasn't at fault for Iraq.

The only thing I will add is that if I lived in those areas, I would want to migrate here too. That said though, I would do everything I could to assimilate into the country that was generous to accept me. Immigrants don't have to give up their cultural identity, but they should follow the laws and customs of their host countries.

Being compassionate towards the oppressed isn't a bad thing, but it is admittedly hard to separate the refugees who want to get away from oppression from those who want to kill and oppress. Personally, I can't fault Sweden for trying to be compassionate.

Iceaxe

02-22-2017, 09:26 PM

Deja vu....

I think we've been here before when I last stated that Islam is inherently and by definition inconsistent with the separation of church and state, which makes it incompatible with western society.

Scott P

02-22-2017, 09:43 PM

I think we've been here before when I last stated that Islam is inherently and by definition inconsistent with the separation of church and state, which makes it incompatible with western society.

Then why spend trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives to force a democracy on them? Here's some deja vu for you (one of the many speeches justifying the war):

Our commitment to democracy is also tested in the Middle East, which is my focus today, and must be a focus of American policy for decades to come. In many nations of the Middle East — countries of great strategic importance — democracy has not yet taken root. And the questions arise: Are the peoples of the Middle East somehow beyond the reach of liberty? Are millions of men and women and children condemned by history or culture to live in despotism? Are they alone never to know freedom, and never even to have a choice in the matter? I, for one, do not believe it. I believe every person has the ability and the right to be free. (Applause.)

Some skeptics of democracy assert that the traditions of Islam are inhospitable to the representative government. This “cultural condescension,” as Ronald Reagan termed it, has a long history. After the Japanese surrender in 1945, a so-called Japan expert asserted that democracy in that former empire would “never work.” Another observer declared the prospects for democracy in post-Hitler Germany are, and I quote, “most uncertain at best” — he made that claim in 1957. Seventy-four years ago, The Sunday London Times declared nine-tenths of the population of India to be “illiterates not caring a fig for politics.” Yet when Indian democracy was imperiled in the 1970s, the Indian people showed their commitment to liberty in a national referendum that saved their form of government.

Time after time, observers have questioned whether this country, or that people, or this group, are “ready” for democracy — as if freedom were a prize you win for meeting our own Western standards of progress. In fact, the daily work of democracy itself is the path of progress. It teaches cooperation, the free exchange of ideas, and the peaceful resolution of differences. As men and women are showing, from Bangladesh to Botswana, to Mongolia, it is the practice of democracy that makes a nation ready for democracy, and every nation can start on this path.

It should be clear to all that Islam — the faith of one-fifth of humanity — is consistent with democratic rule. Democratic progress is found in many predominantly Muslim countries — in Turkey and Indonesia, and Senegal and Albania, Niger and Sierra Leone. Muslim men and women are good citizens of India and South Africa, of the nations of Western Europe, and of the United States of America.

More than half of all the Muslims in the world live in freedom under democratically constituted governments. They succeed in democratic societies, not in spite of their faith, but because of it. A religion that demands individual moral accountability, and encourages the encounter of the individual with God, is fully compatible with the rights and responsibilities of self-government.

Also, don't forget that Saddam was a secular dictator rather than a Islamic extremists. I think we're beating a dead horse here though.

Scott P

02-22-2017, 09:50 PM

Trump's latest tweet:

85940

jman

02-22-2017, 09:54 PM

Trump's latest tweet:

85940

Ahahaha! good stuff right there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Iceaxe

02-26-2017, 09:01 PM

So... how many honorable mentions did The Donald get tonight at the Oscar's?

rockgremlin

02-26-2017, 09:49 PM

So... how many honorable mentions did The Donald get tonight at the Oscar's?

85946

twotimer

02-27-2017, 06:36 AM

Yeah...their little Trump bashing party was hummin' along real nice until they puked all over themselves at the end. Kind of ironic, isn't it...snatching trophies away from each other.

Iceaxe

02-27-2017, 07:13 AM

So La La Land won the popular vote and Moonlight won the electoral vote?

Sombeech

02-27-2017, 09:11 AM

So La La Land won the popular vote

I downloaded it via Torrent but it doesn't look interesting enough to even play in the background as I'm working. Delete.

uintafly

02-27-2017, 03:45 PM

twotimer

02-27-2017, 04:32 PM

No doubt he we be happier in his safe space.

You think he bailed on this because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt? I'd say he simply doesn't give a shit. Why would he want to spend an evening hobnobbing around with a bunch of sniveling freaks? That's Spicer's job.

Iceaxe

02-27-2017, 05:29 PM

Why in the hell would Trump want to show up at the WH correspondence dinner? What would he gain? Would it benefit his agenda in anyway?

double moo

02-27-2017, 07:56 PM

Typically the POTUS is the final speaker at the corresondents dinner. DT could make it a media roast throwing the final flames.

Iceaxe

02-27-2017, 08:08 PM

Typically the POTUS is the final speaker at the corresondents dinner. DT could make it a media roast throwing the final flames.

And this would benefit Trump's agenda how? Not to mention many in the media were taking of boycotting to make a point, this was just a preemptive strike. Kind of hard for the media to boycott to make a point when they were already beat to the punch.

The funny part of all this is the media crying that they can't boycott because they are being boycotted... LOL

double moo

02-27-2017, 08:39 PM

Nothing to do with his agenda.... just to make him feel better.

Iceaxe

02-27-2017, 09:39 PM

If a girl scout egged your house would you buy cookies from her?

White House deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders

twotimer

02-28-2017, 06:54 PM

Forget Eric Clapton...Trump is God. That guy is absolutely fantastic. That was the best speech I've ever heard a President give.

Christ Almighty...those Democrats couldn't run out of that place fast enough!

nelsonccc

03-01-2017, 11:19 AM

You think he bailed on this because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt? I'd say he simply doesn't give a shit. Why would he want to spend an evening hobnobbing around with a bunch of sniveling freaks? That's Spicer's job.

Exactly. To think that he would bow out of this because of what people say after the year he's had? No way. He just doesn't care. Good for him!

Sombeech

03-01-2017, 07:06 PM

Looks like the worlds biggest snowflake isn't tough enough to take a few jokes. Probably too many triggers and not enough participation trophies for him. No doubt he we be happier in his safe space.

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/25/517257273/trump-will-be-first-president-in-36-years-to-skip-white-house-correspondents-din

I'm starting to think you're trolling, acting like an anti Trump guy, and a damned good one.

Otherwise, I know you don't believe he's skipping this because of bad jokes. This event is one of many that solidified his intent to win the presidency, when ass clown Seth Myers mocked him for running.

In a way that he won't admit, Trump welcomes crap from naysayers, because he knows he can shove their face in it almost immediately when he wins, and this revenge has been served so often.

So yeah, I have no idea why he's not attending, nor do I have the slightest interest in researching to find out why, but I can confidently say that it's not from anxiety of bad jokes.

Brian in SLC

03-01-2017, 07:38 PM

So yeah, I have no idea why he's not attending, nor do I have the slightest interest in researching to find out why, but I can confidently say that it's not from anxiety of bad jokes.

Hmmm. Gotta sting a bit though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

Iceaxe

03-01-2017, 07:44 PM

:toofunny:

Trump certainly got the last laugh with regards to Obama the day he became President Trump and Obama's legacy turned to dust.

Brian in SLC

03-02-2017, 08:26 AM

Trump certainly got the last laugh with regards to Obama the day he became President Trump and Obama's legacy turned to dust.

Oh, I'll bet Barry got a chuckle out of 45's statement, "Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.".

All though...I don't think anyone thinks this is funny...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politics/jeff-sessions-russian-ambassador-meetings/

Iceaxe

03-02-2017, 08:50 AM

To bad Obama didn't see the humor a little earlier... Conservative's have been laughing at the insanity for the last 7 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

uintafly

03-02-2017, 11:05 AM

Hmmmm. A little more smoke. Is there fire? Maybe Chaffetz will do his job and start to find out.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/politics/democrats-sessions-russia-resignation-call/index.html

Eric Norton

03-02-2017, 11:29 AM

Oh brother...

--

“We do not accept Donald Trump as our president because he does not represent us,” said one organizer.

Thousands expected at ‘Not My Presidents Day’ rallies Monday

http://usat.ly/2lk7OwU

Clearly stated you hate Donald Trump :D

Iceaxe

03-02-2017, 12:30 PM

Hmmmm. A little more smoke. Is there fire?

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Brian in SLC

03-02-2017, 12:39 PM

To bad Obama didn't see the humor a little earlier... Conservative's have been laughing at the insanity for the last 7 years.

Nah, they've been whining and crying and feeling picked on. Same as the other side.

There's some comedy gold in the last go 'round:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA5ezR0Kh80

Its too bad that some folks can't poke fun at themselves...

At least when Reagan missed the dinner, he had a reasonable excuse (he'd been shot). What's Trump's excuse again? Oh, yeah, that fake news thing.

Stay tuned...hasn't been boring, that's for sure...

Iceaxe

03-02-2017, 02:10 PM

Stay tuned...hasn't been boring, that's for sure...

Actually it has been kind of boring since the Democrats don't have enough power to actually change anything or do anything. The only thing Democrats can do it stand by the side of the road, jump up and down, scream, and wave their arms, and even that is now losing momentum. It was entertaining for awhile, like watching someone else's kid through a temper tantrum in the grocery store, but most people have now move on.

And just for the record, I'm not a fan of one party controlling all three branches of government. That's how you end up with train wrecks like Obamacare.

The Democrats need to get their shit together and fast or 2018 will be a blood bath for them in the Senate. They need some new ideas and new leadership, but the leadership part will not happen as the Democrats have no bench.

I assume you noticed the only poll that really matters in the end is up over 21,000. That's over $3 Trillion (with a T) dollars in wealth that has been created since November 8th. That is certainly not boring, perhaps that is what you were referring too?

uintafly

03-02-2017, 03:18 PM

I assume you noticed the only poll that really matters in the end is up over 21,000. That's over $3 Trillion (with a T) dollars in wealth that has been created since November 8th. That is certainly not boring, perhaps that is what you were referring too?

Well, promises of lower taxes, increased government spending and deregulation will do that. Combine it with the tailwind created by the Obama economy and Wall St will be happy. But how much of that $3T has trickled down to the average Trump voter? Specifically in the few rust belt states that swung the election? Real question, I have no idea.

Ill happily admit that in my industry things are smoking hot. By the end of March I'll have beat my entire 2016 production by 25%. I'm about to do a pretty big remodel of my house thanks to the last few months. But hard to give much credit to Trump when he's been in office 6 weeks and things have been trending good for the past 30 months. And if it's trump policies that are creating these circumstances, I'll happily keep collecting checks while fighting his environmental and social policies.

Iceaxe

03-02-2017, 04:17 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170303/5d3fd27f5ba0e2371255a179938bc93c.jpg

Iceaxe

03-03-2017, 02:08 PM

When someone asks me if I'm on the left or the right naturally I just think they are asking me which lane I want.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170303/d80cf38d2de4bace2bc6b89634201145.jpg

Brian in SLC

03-03-2017, 07:23 PM

Ahhh...the gift that keeps on giving...

I'll be back....guess not!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_64ErJsOFPA

Iceaxe

03-03-2017, 07:35 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/948bd7f4d0b6ab5f06600771d47e5d0b.jpg

Brian in SLC

03-04-2017, 10:30 AM

Excerpts from Trump's speech in front of congress which I think will effect the federal budget...

For that reason, we will soon begin theconstruction of a great, great wall along our southern border.

Right now, American companies are taxed at one of the highest rates anywhere in theworld. My economic team is developing historic tax reform that will reduce thetax rate on our companies so they can compete and thrive anywhere and with anyone.
It willbe a big, big cut. At the same time we will provide massive tax relief for the middle class. We must create a level playing field for American companies andour workers. Have to do it.

To launch our national rebuilding, I will be asking the Congress to approve legislation that produces a $1 trillion investment in infrastructure of theUnited States financed through both, public and private capital, creatingmillions of new jobs.

Secondly, we should help Americans purchase their own coverage, through the use of taxcredits and expanded health savings accounts, but it must be the plan they want, not the plan forced on them by our government.

Fourth, we should implement legal reforms that protect patients and doctors from unnecessary costs that drive up the price of insurance and work to bring down theartificially high price of drugs and bring them down immediately.

I am calling upon members of both parties to pass an education bill that funds school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of african-american and latino children.

I have ordered the Department ofHomeland Security to create an office to serve American Victims. The office is called VOICE –- Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement. We areproviding a voice to those who have been ignored by our media, and silenced by special interests.

I am sending the Congress a budget that rebuilds the military, eliminates the defense sequester, and calls for one of the largest increases in national defense spending in American history.

My budget will also increase funding for our veterans. Our veterans have delivered for this nation –- and now we must deliver for them.

We strongly support NATO, an alliance forged through the bonds of two World Wars that dethroned fascism.
And a Cold War that defeated communism.
But our partners must meet their financial obligations.
And now, based on our very strong and frank discussions, they are beginning to do just that. In fact I can tell you, the money is pouring in. Very nice.

No money is pouring in.

A bright spot might be limiting a doctor's liability, which would reduce their malpractice insurance, and, medical costs to the consumer.

"Massive" tax relief...and "one the largest increases in national defense spending in American history"...along with a trillion dollars on infrastructure...none of that equates to reducing any debt.

Time will tell. We'll see how it goes...

Sombeech

03-04-2017, 11:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

Hmmm. Gotta sting a bit though...

:roflol: Yes it definitely stings, it BURNS! But for whom?

rockgremlin

03-04-2017, 11:59 AM

Hmmm. Gotta sting a bit though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

LOL. The Donald didn't look too amused.

rockgremlin

03-04-2017, 12:24 PM

"Massive" tax relief...and "one the largest increases in national defense spending in American history"...along with a trillion dollars on infrastructure...none of that equates to reducing any debt.

Concur.

All of these grand plans to build up infrastructure and augment the military....but who's gonna pay for all of that? Especially considering he's wanting to make massive tax cuts?

It just doesn't compute.

It's like me saying I'm gonna buy a fleet of sports cars and build an opulent mansion....right after I take a job that pays me significantly less than what I'm currently making.

twotimer

03-04-2017, 05:59 PM

All of these grand plans to build up infrastructure and augment the military....but who's gonna pay for all of that?

Well...the kids of the two-year olds who are crapping their diapers right now.

I remember back in the '80s they were going on and on about the national debt..."We're mortgaging the future of our grandchildren!"...yeah, so just keep passing the buck, I suppose.

I really don't care about the money or where it "comes from"...just fix a bunch of broken shit and I'll be happy. The roads, in particular.

Wasn't Obama supposed to do that with the trillion he burned thru? I have a bit more faith in Trump actually getting it done.

phatch

03-05-2017, 10:54 AM

LOL. The Donald didn't look too amused.

5 days after that, he had registered the Trademark for "Make America Great Again." This is widely considered what triggered Trump to run for real in 2016 after making some feeler type comments in 2012.

oldno7

03-06-2017, 12:12 PM

:lol8::lol8:

oldno7

03-06-2017, 12:14 PM

...

accadacca

03-10-2017, 08:19 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/d04547b6e9f1efe4a9916118a70e76b3.jpg

Iceaxe

03-10-2017, 08:38 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/8b5f752bb65b2721640b7c517eceeb87.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/94a7f2c4f42d860e4b99a97cf9e0370d.jpg

Iceaxe

03-12-2017, 05:46 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170313/8b39c653a29a83ff257d75d465838428.jpg

Brian in SLC

03-12-2017, 06:44 PM

^^^ No worries...

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/us-drone-strikes-have-gone-up-432-since-trump-took-office

Iceaxe

03-12-2017, 06:51 PM

Yeah, but this time we are playing to win!

Brian in SLC

03-12-2017, 07:13 PM

And...keeping those promises!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/03/keystone-pipeline-wont-use-us-steel-despite-trump-pledge.html

Iceaxe

03-12-2017, 07:24 PM

Brian in SLC

03-12-2017, 09:00 PM

Actually I've seen the contracts on that project (this is what I do for a living) and any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive has the be US. Which is actually a pretty standard line in government contacts ( which this is not).

Spin, spin, spin.....

Not on "that" project. Not required to use US steel at all even for steel purchased after.

This pipeline business has been an interesting journey. First the vow that US steel would be used. Then, an executive order was signed. Said executive order isn't an executive order (or, at least I can find no record of it...not listed in the Federal Register). Morphed into a memo which has TransCanada (uhhh, not a US company) reapplying for a permit. They do, but, their permit doesn't mention US steel at all.

So...what was initially an executive order isn't. A presidential memo instead is issued on 24 January. No mention of US steel.

Not trying to bust your chops, but, cite a source that calls for US steel for Keystone for "any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive".

I think that was brokered away in trade for TransCanada dropping its NAFTA lawsuit? That's why all the news media (fake and otherwise) have mentioned no US steel even going forward.

I surfed through all the executive orders issued by Trump. No mention of domestic sources for steel on any pipeline project. Am I missing one? Which number order???

Yeah, crazy spin spin.

Oh, and here's the source of the steel:

http://www.evraz.com/

This language sound familiar? Guess who introduced this as a bill into congress?

“to the maximum extent consistent with the obligations of the United States under international trade agreements, none of the iron, steel, or manufactured goods used in the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline and facilities approved by this Act may be produced outside of the United States.”

Tennis anyone?

86040

Note the woman to Ivanka's right....(not that the other folks aren't interesting too...ha ha...).

Twists for me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjBwe6IL10o

Scott P

03-12-2017, 10:36 PM

Actually I've seen the contracts on that project (this is what I do for a living) and any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive has the be US.

That may be true, but according to Trump's own spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders and all news sources, including Fox News, all of the steel for the Keystone Pipeline was already purchased before any directive, so even if there is a directive to buy US made steel for the pipeline the future, it seems too late for the Keystone Pipeline (at least for the initial construction).

That said though, meh; politicians lie and make promises they can't keep.

I'm more interested in seeing if Trump is going to keep his promise to make healthcare better and massive improvements for infrastructure (instead of spending all of our money overseas).

Here is Trump's promise about healthcare (direct quote):

"We're going to have (health) insurance for everybody. There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.

They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better"-Donald Trump January 14 2017.

Infrastructure promise:

"Another Republican President, Dwight D. Eisenhower, initiated the last truly great national infrastructure program --- the building of the interstate highway system. The time has come for a new program of national rebuilding,

America has spent approximately $6 trillion in the Middle East, all this while our infrastructure at home is crumbling. With this $6 trillion we could have rebuilt our country -- twice. And maybe even three times if we had people who had the ability to negotiate"

Obviously I wish Trump would support things like National Parks and Public Lands, but he never promised to do so (that I am aware of at least), so I'll just point out his promises that I hope that he does keep. That doesn't mean I have my hopes up. Trump's promise above on healthcare is probably a lie, but that doesn't meant that I don't want it to happen. I am willing to bet that the promise will just turn out to be another lie though. /bookmarked

uintafly

03-13-2017, 08:14 AM

I read an essay this morning that reminded me of our current situation (bolding of the final lines was done by me):

BAYARD vs LIONHEART

July 26, 1920

One discerns in all the current discussion of MM. Harding and Cox a certain sour dismay. It seems to be quite impossible for any wholly literate man to pump up any genuine enthusiasm for either of them. Each, of course, is praised lavishly by the professional politicians of his own party, and compared to Lincoln, Jefferson and Cleveland by the surviving hacks of the party press, but in the middle ground, among men who care less for party success than for the national dignity, there is a gone feeling in the stomach, with shooting pains down the legs. The Liberals, in particular, seem to be suffering badly. They discover that Harding is simply a third-rate political wheel-horse, with the face of a moving-picture actor, the intelligence of a respectable agricultural implement dealer, and the imagination of a lodge joiner, and that Cox is no more than a provincial David Harum with a gift for bamboozling the boobs.

These verdicts, it seems to me, are substantially just. No one but an idiot would argue seriously that either candidate is a first-rate man, or even a creditable specimen of second-rate man. Any State in the Union, at least above the Potomac, could produce a thousand men quite as good, and many States could produce a thousand a great deal better. Harding, intellectually, seems to be merely a benign blank—a decent, harmless, laborious, hollow-headed mediocrity perhaps comparable to the late Harrington, of Maryland. Cox is quicker of wit, but a good deal less honest. He belongs to the cunning type; there is a touch of the shyster in him. His chicaneries in the matter of prohibition, both during the convention and since, show the kink in his mind. He is willing to do anything to cadge votes, and he includes in that anything the ready sacrifices of his good faith, of the national welfare, and of the hopes and confidence of those who honestly support him. Neither candidate reveals the slightest dignity of conviction. Neither cares a hoot for any discernible principle. Neither, in any intelligible sense, is a man of honor.

But it is one thing to yield to virtuous indignation against such individuals and quite another thing to devise any practicable scheme for booting them out of the synagogue. The weakness of those of us who take a gaudy satisfaction in our ideas, and battle for them violently, and face punishment for them willingly and even proudly, is that we forget the primary business of the man in politics, which is the snatching and safeguarding of his job. That business, it must be plain, concerns itself only occasionally with the defense and propagation of ideas, and even then it must confine itself to those that, to a reflective man, must usually appear to be insane. The first and last aim of the politician is to get votes, and the safest of all ways to get votes is to appear to the plain man to be a plain man like himself, which is to say, to appear to him to be happily free from any heretical treason to the body of accepted platitudes-to be filled to the brim with the flabby, banal, childish notions that challenge no prejudice and lay no burden of examination upon the mind.

It is not often, in these later days of the democratic enlightenment, that positive merit lands a man in elective office in the United States; much more often it is a negative merit that gets him there. That negative merit is simply disvulnerability. Of the two candidates, that one wins who least arouses the suspicions and distrusts of the great masses of simple men. Well, what are more likely to arouse those suspicions and distrusts than ideas, convictions, principles? The plain people are not hostile to shysterism, save it be gross and unsuccessful. They admire a Roosevelt for his bold stratagems and duplicities, his sacrifice of faith and principle to the main chance, his magnificent disdain of fairness and honor. But they shy instantly and inevitably from the man who comes before them with notions that they cannot immediately translate into terms of their everyday delusions; they fear the novel idea, and particularly the revolutionary idea, as they fear the devil. When Roosevelt, losing hold upon his cunning at last, embraced the vast hodgepodge of innovations, some idiotic but some sound enough, that went by the name of Progressivism, they jumped from under him in trembling, and he came down with a thump that left him on his back until death delivered him from all hope and caring.

It seems to me that this fear of ideas is a peculiarly democratic phenomenon, and that it is nowhere so horribly apparent as in the United States, perhaps the nearest approach to an actual democracy yet seen in the world. It was Americans who invented the curious doctrine that there is a body of doctrine in every department of thought that every good citizen is in duty bound to accept and cherish; it was Americans who invented the right-thinker. The fundamental concept, of course, was not original. The theologians embraced it centuries ago, and continue to embrace it to this day. It appeared on the political side in the Middle Ages, and survived in Russia into our time. But it is only in the United States that it has been extended to all departments of thought. It is only here that any novel idea, in any field of human relations, carries with it a burden of obnoxiousness, and is instantly challenged as mysteriously immoral by the great masses of right-thinking men. It is only here, so far as I have been able to make out, that there is a right way and a wrong way to think about the beverages one drinks with one's meals, and the way children ought to be taught in the schools, and the manner in which foreign alliances should be negotiated, and what ought to be done about the Bolsheviki.

In the face of this singular passion for conformity, this dread of novelty and originality, it is obvious that the man of vigorous mind and stout convictions is gradually shouldered out of public life. He may slide into office once or twice, but soon or late he is bound to be held up, examined and incontinently kicked out. This leaves the field to the intellectual jelly-fish and inner tubes. There is room for two sorts of them—first, the blank cartridge who has no convictions at all and is willing to accept anything to make votes, and, secondly, the mountebank who is willing to conceal and disguise what he actually believes, according as the wind blows hot or cold. Of the first sort, Harding is an excellent specimen; of the second sort, Cox.

Such tests arise inevitably out of democracy—the domination of unreflective and timorous men, moved in vast herds by mob emotions. In private life no man of sense would think of applying them. We do not estimate the integrity and ability of an acquaintance by his flabby willingness to accept our ideas; we estimate him by the honesty and effectiveness with which he maintains his own. All of us, if we are of reflective habit, like and admire men whose fundamental beliefs differ radically from our own. But when a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental—men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack, or count himself lost. His one aim is to disarm suspicion, to arouse confidence in his orthodoxy, to avoid challenge. If he is a man of convictions, of enthusiasm, of self-respect, it is cruelly hard. But if he is, like Harding, a numskull like the idiots he faces, or, like Cox, a pliant intellectual Jenkins, it is easy.

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by the force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre—the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

twotimer

03-13-2017, 07:24 PM

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. Funny thing...this is exactly how I regarded the last guy. Every time Obama opened his mouth, I heard a stuttering, stammering fool.

accadacca

03-15-2017, 11:48 AM

86050

Iceaxe

03-15-2017, 03:41 PM

Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....

:roflol:

twotimer

03-15-2017, 06:51 PM

Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....

:roflol:Indeed! Mr. Maddow made of fool of himself with that one.

About 3 weeks before the Inauguration, I made a comment in the other (deleted) presidential thread that "something's gotta give" in regards to the war with the liberal media...after trying so hard to nail his ass to the wall, and completely failing, it's gotten to the point where they are literally trying to make something out of nothing...as if that wasn't the case before. They have NOTHING legit on him.

This may be it, boys...I think Trump is now standing above the battered body of his vanquished foe. Not to say they won't continue to attack, but they seem to be the fool shouting on a soapbox in the middle of the village square while everyone goes about their business, ignoring them. Too much Chicken Little will get ya, every time.

Trump is straight up badass.

Scott P

03-15-2017, 07:56 PM

Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....

Those were 2005 taxes. Or has he shown his 2015 or 2016 ones yet?

Personally, I think it should be a requirement for all candidates running for higher political office to show their tax returns. I don't mean just Trump or just Republicans, but all of them. Trump, Harry Reid, Hillary; all of them.

Scott Card

03-15-2017, 09:14 PM

Why?

Scott P

03-15-2017, 09:33 PM

Why?

If they are going to decide how much we pay and what the money goes towards, then we should get to see what they pay.

oldno7

03-16-2017, 05:29 AM

Why?

Exactly!!
What difference does a tax return make on ones ability to govern?

No person except a natural born citizen (http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html), or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

guess Scott P wants a new amendment.

gholt

03-16-2017, 05:30 AM

If they are going to decide how much we pay and what the money goes towards, then we should get to see what they pay.
Sound logic. As a tax guy, makes sense. If am the people complaining about how much taxes trump paid, they are probably the majority of people who didn't pay any income taxes at all.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

devo_stevo

03-16-2017, 05:52 AM

Honestly, the witch hunt going on over the tax thing is as bad as the birthers were with Obama. Maybe that's why they're doing this. Trump was one of the most outspoken of that bunch.

Anyone that has ever made any decent amount of money could tell you that it's pretty much impossible to get out of paying taxes on your earnings. To think that the guy who makes millions every year doesn't pay taxes is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the world we live in. I don't see any reason that his 2015 or 2016 returns would show much difference in the tax rate that he paid in 2005, and there is no way that he didn't pay anything.

Brian in SLC

03-16-2017, 07:53 AM

Exactly!!
What difference does a tax return make on ones ability to govern?

That's the point. Transparency. Conflict of interest. We don't know.

If Trumps financial issues are more a priority than the nations...then...that'd be an issue.

He's the only president since before Nixon who hasn't.

His business dealings and relationships are harder to follow than contributors to the Clinton Foundation (!!!).

This steel pipeline issue is interesting. Look at Nucor's stock. Etc. You think they'd a got a bump with all this talk of a trillion in infrastructure and pipelines made from US steel. But...between Russia and China...maybe there's deals out there...and the executive order that wasn't. Vows made and not followed through on.

I thought Rachael explained it well to Jimmy last night...its funny, she got confirmation from the white house that the return was legit. Just seems...weird...and, maybe a purposeful distraction?

Scott P

03-16-2017, 08:17 AM

Anyone that has ever made any decent amount of money could tell you that it's pretty much impossible to get out of paying taxes on your earnings. To think that the guy who makes millions every year doesn't pay taxes is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the world we live in. I don't see any reason that his 2015 or 2016 returns would show much difference in the tax rate that he paid in 2005, and there is no way that he didn't pay anything.

I agree with you, but all high level politicians, including Democrats as well should show them in my opinion. Plus Trump promised to release them if he was elected. Even if he isn't required to why shouldn't he keep his promise? I would also speculate that Trump paid millions in taxes.

Honestly, the witch hunt going on over the tax thing is as bad as the birthers were with Obama. Maybe that's why they're doing this. Trump was one of the most outspoken of that bunch.

Good point on Trump's insistence that Obama show his birth certificate. Trump not releasing his tax returns is hypocritical since he has promised to do so many times. In fact he said that he would release his tax returns when Obama released his birth certificate.

oldno7

03-16-2017, 09:20 AM

In fact he said that he would release his tax returns when Obama released his birth certificate.

So we,re waiting on the Kenyan embassy still??:roflol:

Brian in SLC

03-16-2017, 09:31 AM

So we,re waiting on the Kenyan embassy still??:roflol:

Probably same place as Barry's wiretap of Trump...

uintafly

03-16-2017, 11:04 AM

Probably same place as Barry's wiretap of Trump...

Maybe they should check the microwave?

tallsteve

03-16-2017, 11:50 AM

Maybe they should check the microwave?

McDonald's has it.

devo_stevo

03-16-2017, 12:19 PM

I agree with you, but all high level politicians, including Democrats as well should show them in my opinion. Plus Trump promised to release them if he was elected. Even if he isn't required to why shouldn't he keep his promise? I would also speculate that Trump paid millions in taxes. I don't know that i have an opinion on whether politicians should be compelled to release them or not, but I do agree that Trump promised to release them. Therefore I think that he should do it.

One thing is for sure. The guy pays more in taxes in one year than I will likely earn in a lifetime, so there is that...

Iceaxe

03-16-2017, 12:52 PM

Trump would be a fool to release his taxes. As it stands now he has the left all standing in line crying over something that is perfectly legal.

If he releases his taxes he is doing nothing but giving the left ammunition. Line 1 of his taxes could be Trump cures cancer world wide and the left will just bitch he is taking jobs away from the health care industry.

Brian in SLC

03-16-2017, 02:16 PM

Trump would be a fool to release his taxes. As it stands now he has the left all standing in line crying over something that is perfectly legal.

If he releases his taxes he is doing nothing but giving the left ammunition.

Which is why folks think he probably did release the 2005 taxes...distraction?...and...maybe it was the last non-controversial one. White House did confirm it was "real".

Kind of like when he reviewed his own book...

So far...no evidence of wire tapping. Geez, the guy wins and still thinks folks were trying to get the inside scoop on him? He's either paranoid, delusional, or...

He's probably still chapped about the popular vote and the photo's of the turnout for his inauguration...

Nothing like having the commander in chief focusing on the important stuff for the nation (insert your eye rolling emoticon here).

First 100 days...tick tick tick...

Scott P

03-17-2017, 04:28 AM

twotimer

03-17-2017, 06:02 AM

If Hillary won and didn't release her tax returns, it is a sure bet that the Republicans would cry foul.

Trump promised to release his tax returns several times. Why shouldn't he keep his promise?

By the way, as far as curing cancer, Trump will be increasing cancer rates, not curing cancer. You can't allow a lot more pollution and not increase cancer rates.If Clinton had won, and she didn't release them, the only one bitching about it would be some Republicans and Fox news...and the majority or the media would ignore it and cover her ass. It would be a non-story. Just like Bengazi and her claim of being shot at in Kosovo, to say the least. I'd bet she and her old man paid less that 25%.

So who wants to see Trumps returns? The very liberal media that would laugh if he were being burned alive, that's who. So he throws up the middle finger to them and flies off to (pick a state) and has a rally with 10,000 adoring fans. Those of us who support the guy don't care one wit about his tax returns, and he knows it.

So Trump is gonna throw down some cancer on us? He's going to allow his rich buddies to spew toxins into the air? Something I figured out LONG ago is that liberals (aside from being far too judgemental) always think someone is out to get them.

On a side note, this Russian nonsense is laughable...Obama said "Tell Vladmir I'll be more flexible after the election". He may as well have said, "Tell him my ass will be nice and high, all lubed up and ready for action". And they say Trump is too cozy with these guys?

Sorry Scott, I said a while back I wouldn't comment on you posts anymore, but this one just has wrong written all over it. BTW, check out my new signature.

oldno7

03-17-2017, 08:37 AM

:crazy:

uintafly

03-17-2017, 09:07 AM

Show me your budget and I'll show you your values. More bombs, guns and enemies. A big kick in the nuts to the working poor...and science...and education...and the environment...and the arts...and neighborhood redevelopment...and on and on and on. Oh an privatizing air traffic controllers. Since it has worked so well in the prison industry, why not?

Maybe we can soon be like Ghina, and we can leave the inventing and advancement to other countries while we build their shit.

Brian in SLC

03-17-2017, 09:07 AM

If Clinton had won, and she didn't release them...

Uhh...the Clinton's did release their tax returns. Married filing jointly.

https://m.hrc.onl/secretary/10-documents/01-health-financial-records/Clinton_2015_Form_1040_with_Signature_Page.pdf

Folks picked and parsed these returns prior to the election.

But, there they are. The full deal. Warts and all.

31% tax rate.

She's released 39 years of tax returns...

Now, if Trump released his return for at least 2015, we'd see how closely he was tied to Russia (or not)...and whether he has America's best interests in mind...

Willful ignorance is a "thing"...when you bury your head in the sand...how's the view?

Scott Card

03-17-2017, 09:41 AM

Isn't the IRS the "tax police"? I am quite certain that every candidate has had their taxes poured over by their herd of CPA's and that the IRS has vetted the tax returns also. So why, again, do we care? Seems that the attitude of both parties as it relates to tax returns is guilty until proven innocent. That folks, is un-American. If a person pays the taxes that they owe under the law, I don't need to arm chair quarterback every deduction. Do we not have anything more constructive to do? :facepalm1: Frankly, smart people hire other smart people to take every advantage of every law to pay ONLY what they must pay and not a penny more. There is no shame in that, there is no immorality in paying what you owe and deducting what you can. It seems that there are those who want to criticize a fair tax payment if the other guy is not your candidate. Somehow if he didn't pay extra or took a deduction they don't agree with they get all bent out of shape. Well, my thought is that if you pay extra to the government or don't take deductions you are legally entitled to I question your sanity. So why, again, do we care?

Iceaxe

03-17-2017, 09:46 AM

^^^THIS^^^

oldno7

03-17-2017, 10:07 AM

:coffee:

Been to the vault, and discovered Trump's tax returns

Brian in SLC

03-17-2017, 10:28 AM

So why, again, do we care?

Transparency and to understand any conflict of interest.

Also, in light of legislation proposed, budgets, etc, its interesting to see what the better half pays versus the people they govern. Would go towards understanding.

Do you not care about conflicts of interest?

Do you not care about someone who's governing you and their tax/budget/executive orders and their direction for the country especially given the path they've taken to become successful?

Or, is it enough that the man was on a popular reality TV show?

Did you care about the Clinton's and their source of wealth? If so, then why not Trump? Why does he get a pass?

Part of it for me, is, I'd like to see some of these tax loop holes closed especially the ones that are only available to the super wealthy...seems an unfair playing field to me. Bragging about paying no tax? I mean, I'm all for reducing the tax burden where it makes sense, and, trying to get rid of gov't bloat, but...

Funny...as tax season is upon us...and looking at Utah's flat tax. I'd like to see that at the federal level...

rockgremlin

03-17-2017, 10:55 AM

By the way, as far as curing cancer, Trump will be increasing cancer rates, not curing cancer. You can't allow a lot more pollution and not increase cancer rates.

...everyone in the Animas river watershed agrees with this statement.

Iceaxe

03-17-2017, 12:29 PM

I really don't think most people give a carp if Trump has a conflict of interest so long as he attempts to do what he promised.

Brian in SLC

03-17-2017, 12:44 PM

I really don't think most people give a carp if Trump has a conflict of interest so long as he attempts to do what he promised.

You're right...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/

Interesting...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-promise-tracker/

There's more than a few I'd like to see him pull off! Term limits...lobbyists...

twotimer

03-17-2017, 06:58 PM

Uhh...the Clinton's did release their tax returns. Married filing jointly.

https://m.hrc.onl/secretary/10-documents/01-health-financial-records/Clinton_2015_Form_1040_with_Signature_Page.pdf

Willful ignorance is a "thing"...when you bury your head in the sand...how's the view?Head in the sand?...Not really, as I haven't paid much attention to her and was unaware that they had put these things out. I hadn't heard a word about it. I also really don't care about anyone's returns as Scott Card's post really sums it up.

I'll tell you what though...the Clintons need a new accountant or should hire one, because they overpaid by a million bucks. I'm self-employed and pay quarterly estimated...I figure their income must have been much higher in 2013 because your payments need to add up to the last years tax, or you're hit with a penalty...but they should have know by the last payment (Jan 15th) what the tax was based on the income. They got a million dollar refund, but why let the gov. hold on to that money? Weird.

Scott P

03-18-2017, 05:43 PM

If Clinton had won, and she didn't release them, the only one bitching about it would be some Republicans and Fox news..

It would be most Republican politicians and a lot of Republicans as well. The dems and reps are the same in this regard.

So Trump is gonna throw down some cancer on us? He's going to allow his rich buddies to spew toxins into the air?

I was half joking, but yes Trump is going to roll back pollution standards (not among his friends, but among everyone). This really isn't disputed. Yes, personally I like to see clean air.

Although most companies are ethical, there are plenty of them out of there that will poison the air and water to make extra money if you let them. I used to work for two such companies. Two of my ex bosses were indicted for consipracy for intentionally poisoning the city's water supply to save money on pollution controls. I have also been to a lot of countroes where there are lax standards on pollution. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

Obviously pollution standards do hurt buisness profits and rolling back pollution standards will increase profits. There has to be balance though. This is not an extremist viewpoint.

Something I figured out LONG ago is that liberals (aside from being far too judgemental) always think someone is out to get them.

As far as judgemental goes, didn't you say that women democrats were a of bunch of hags or something similar? I think we can all be a little less judemental. :wink: Trump is pretty paranoid that everyone's out to get him too, or so it seems.

You are right that a lot of liberals are judgemental and paranoid, but they aren't the only ones that are judgmental or paranoid.

PS, I mostly agree with you about Russia.

BTW, check out my new signature.

That's a great signature. You would also be better off to follow it as would I and everyone else as well.

twotimer

03-18-2017, 06:57 PM

Scott, you're just too damn nice! But that's a good thing, I reckon.

The "liberal old hags" thing is really just a reflection of extremely feminist, older ladies that seem to be constantly angry and spoiling for a fight. Believe me, I've met plenty of them...last summer in particular I did a lot of hikes with groups of people from the Colorado Mountain Club, and there were always at least a few gals all jacked up about Trump...I tried to avoid talking about politics with them, but they fish it out of you anyway. Even when I said "Please, let's not talk about this stuff"...they'd just blow right past that and want to argue. This literally happened every other weekend last summer. It sucked because when they ignore my request I'm forced to lay down a verbal smackdown...and then after that most of them want to flirt! That sucks too because the term "Desperate but not serious" applies most of the time, so you've got to deal with that, too. That's the judgemental part, as it seems to be the first thing they want to know about you...but I can tell you that being a single guy means you're always being sized up one way or another. It's ALWAYS political with the feminist types. Funny how they date and marry these wimpy guys but want to be with a strong one, but can't bring themselves to do it.

I've been told that people know I'm a "conservative type" just by the way I walk into a room. I'm a pretty confident guy, and I guess it shows. Works great for business though, let me tell ya. I don't say a damn thing but liberal women approach me for a dust up anyway...of course I don't think that all of them are angry hags, but recently I've been crashing into a lot of those.

Enough of my feminist rant...it's just been extra strange this last year.

BTW, have fun in Jamaica...perhaps sample some of the herb? :naughty:

Scott P

03-18-2017, 07:13 PM

BTW, have fun in Jamaica...perhaps sample some of the herb? :naughty:

Thanks! :2thumbs:

It has been raining the entire time and with flooding and power outages! We went caving today because it doesn't rain underground. Today there was a high of 73 with heavy rain on the coast. Back home in Craig Colorado of all places I read that it is sunny and 75!

Anyway, we'll still have fun.

Iceaxe

03-19-2017, 08:21 PM

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/wolf-msmedia_large.jpg

Iceaxe

03-20-2017, 05:44 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/d622c6f964b3aed05b079f152dc2d25e.jpg

accadacca

03-22-2017, 05:41 PM

Laugh for the day!

A CNN reporter walks into a neighborhood tavern and is about to order a drink when he sees
a guy at the end of the bar wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat. It didn’t take an Einstein to know the guy was a Donald Trump supporter.

The CNN guy shouts over to the bartender, loudly enough that everyone in the bar could hear,
“Drinks for everyone in here, bartender, except for that Trump supporter.”

After the drinks were handed out the Trump guy gives the CNN guy a big smile, waves at him and says, in an equally loud voice, “Thank you!”
This infuriates the CNN reporter. So he once again loudly orders drinks for everyone except the guy wearing the Trump hat.

As before, this doesn’t seem to bother the Trump guy. He just continues to smile and again yells, “Thank you!”
So the CNN guy again loudly orders drinks for everyone except the Trump guy. And again the Trump guy just smiles and yells back, “Thank you!”

At that point the aggravated CNN reporter asks the bartender, “What the hell is the matter with that Trump supporter?
I’ve ordered three rounds of drinks for everyone in the bar but him and all the silly ass does is smile and thank me. Is he nuts?”

“Nope,” replied the bartender. “He owns the place.”

Brian in SLC

03-22-2017, 09:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0

Brian in SLC

03-22-2017, 10:57 PM

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/323038/trump-cease-desist-kittenfeed-game/?utm_source=share-fb&utm_medium=button

http://www.kittenfeed.com/

devo_stevo

03-23-2017, 05:54 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3Px11xN-0haha. Finally, somebody says something that actually makes sense in Washington DC.

Obamacare was only the beginning of the end for the health insurance and health care industry in the US. From what I've heard on the new steaming pile of crap coming from the republicans, it's worse. I've already talked about what Obamacare has done for me and my family. I can only imagine that Trumpcare will only do the same to many, many more people. I'm not impressed.

uintafly

03-23-2017, 09:38 AM

drip drip drip drip

http://time.com/4710342/john-mccain-russian-investigation-special-committee/

Oh and remember all of the Obama golfs too much gibberish? Does that only apply to dems?

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-much-do-presidents-spend-travel-trump-vs-obama-2510471

rockgremlin

03-23-2017, 12:06 PM

http://www.kittenfeed.com/

Yea! I defeated Trump with the power of kittens!

Iceaxe

03-23-2017, 06:43 PM

Meanwhile democrats spend their days looking for a Russian unicorn.

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2016/2-27/Wm2g4CPaha-2.png

twotimer

03-23-2017, 09:02 PM

Meanwhile democrats spend their days looking for a Russian unicorn.

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2016/2-27/Wm2g4CPaha-2.pngNo shit...the whole thing is like a retarded circus. I'll tell you what's even worse, Chuck Schumer. I couldn't have imagined that they'd dredge up someone more annoying than Harry Reid.

oldno7

03-24-2017, 05:39 AM

,.,.

Brian in SLC

03-24-2017, 09:31 AM

No shit...the whole thing is like a retarded circus. I'll tell you what's even worse, Chuck Schumer. I couldn't have imagined that they'd dredge up someone more annoying than Harry Reid.

Partisan politics aside...really?

A unicorn?

I'm old enough to remember Watergate. That took two years to unravel. This time, the job was outsourced to the Russians. That smells of treason to me.

You really don't think this is an issue?

100 days...he might make it. Four years? We'll see.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cfdc3b3950d52f56fedfd39e5e00a0154a632c878b8ae2d06d 8f3164fdc237fd.jpg

Sombeech

03-24-2017, 10:18 AM

Partisan politics aside...really?

A unicorn?

I'm old enough to remember Watergate. That took two years to unravel. This time, the job was outsourced to the Russians. That smells of treason to me.

You really don't think this is an issue?

Tell ya what, let's meet back here in 2 years, March 2019, and when they still haven't found that Trump was involved with the Russian hacking, let's all agree that it was a stupid excuse for Hillary losing the election.

Iceaxe

03-24-2017, 12:17 PM

Ruff, ruff, ruff.... That's the liberal media barking up the wrong tree. What folks should really be concerned with is our intelligence agencies spying on US citizens and the leaking of classified information, both of which are illegal.

But if anyone wants to place a wager I'm willing to bet no Russian unicorn ( Trump colluding with Ruissa) is uncovered in the next two years. Say we bet $1000, better yet $10,000? Time to put up or shut up? Come on big boy, if you're so sure this should be easy money. I'm willing to place that wager with anyone, including the media or Democratic leadership.

Chasing the Russian unicorn is right off page one of the Clinton playbook. Muddy the waters to the greatest extent possible and complicate the simple to where it's impossible to understand and define.

uintafly

03-24-2017, 12:51 PM

Brian in SLC

03-24-2017, 12:54 PM

Chasing the Russian unicorn is right off page one of the Clinton playbook. Muddy the waters to the greatest extent possible and complicate the simple to where it's impossible to understand and define.

And, blaming the leaker is right out of the Trump playbook. Shoot the messenger already!

As Bernie said, "I'm tired hearing about your damn emails".

Same playbook, different party.

This thing's heatin' up. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And, there's a hell of a lot more smoke here than there was on the Clinton conspiracy side.

Sessons, Manafort, Flynn....Gorokhov moving furniture...

Watch for an attempt to repeal the Magnitsky Act.

Trump's already lied about US steel and pipelines and that so called executive order. Which now isn't. Spends more time golfing than governing. Lies about wiretaps. Has self affirmation and self congratulating meetings with his fans instead of being president. Spends his time worrying over kids making video games with cat's scratching him. Helluva fine job your doin', Brownie.

People are wondering if the president should be nominating a supreme court justice if he's only got a few month months to serve....(ha ha).

How 'bout that Trumpcare?

Brian in SLC

03-24-2017, 01:01 PM

Just like I wouldn't give Bush all the credit for going into Iraq, I wouldn't give Trump the credit for having the wherewithal to orchestrate this mess with Russia. He's just not that saavy.

86151

Iceaxe

03-24-2017, 02:05 PM

Ruff, Ruff, Ruff.......

Brian in SLC

03-24-2017, 02:48 PM

Ruff, Ruff, Ruff.......

Tail wagging the dog?

Read his twitter feed if you want some sad entertainment.

“Russia is a ruse. I have nothing to do with Russia. Haven’t made a phone call to Russia in years."

White House acknowledges (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-08/trump-met-russian-ambassador-during-campaign-at-speech-reception) that Trump met the Russian ambassador last April, despite previous statements that he had “zero” involvement with Russian officials.

Scott P

03-24-2017, 03:29 PM

100 days...he might make it.

Even if something was found, it is extremely unlikely that Trump will be impeached. The Republicans won't impeach one of their own and the Democrats would be really stupid to impeach Trump.

A lot of people don't like Trump's personality, but compared to Pence, Trump is actually a moderate in many respects. There are actually a lot of Republicans (almost all non moderate conservatives) that would rather have Pence rather than Trump as president. From a political standpoint, the Democrats would have to be pretty stupid to hand over the presidency to Pence, at least early in the term.

Trump is here to stay (as president), at least for 4-8 years.

rockgremlin

03-24-2017, 03:44 PM

So, color me ignorant, but why exactly is this Russian conspiracy nonsense such a big deal? Did the Russians somehow alter the results of the election? And if so, how? And why?

Iceaxe

03-24-2017, 03:50 PM

Damn... it must be miserable living your life hoping your president fails or will be impeached.

I alway thought Obama was a dumbass (ditto Bush 2) , but I was always cheering for him to succeed.

Trump is around for the long haul, better get used to it. If they couldn't nail Slick Willy on perjury and obstruction of justice, of which he was without doubt guilty, they will never get anywhere with the Russian unicorn.

accadacca

03-24-2017, 10:16 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/e78d68c1bba5458bb78ffdba035f5062.jpg

Iceaxe

03-25-2017, 07:44 AM

One of the main topics in Art of the Deal is don't be afraid to walk away from a deal, which is what Trump did in the end.

Obama care is really not a laughing matter as the Republicans have no intentions of saving it. Obama care will now implode on it's own and the end results will be much worse. That everyone couldn't work together to find a fix for the problem is just sad.

Democrats don't get it now but they will when the mid term elections roll around as they are responsible for a majority of the healthcare death spiral.

rockgremlin

03-25-2017, 09:47 AM

86152

Iceaxe

03-25-2017, 11:06 AM

^^^PROOF^^^

Proof Trump is a great business man. Hillary spent over $1 billion trying to buy the presidency and Trump does it for only $2.5 million.

LMAO...

accadacca

03-25-2017, 06:27 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/eeadf50adb5cadcc09848ccfc1cc287f.jpg

oldno7

03-25-2017, 06:44 PM

I haven't liked this thread, since the russians killed it the first time:kboom:

rockgremlin

03-25-2017, 07:12 PM

So, color me ignorant, but why exactly is this Russian conspiracy nonsense such a big deal? Did the Russians somehow alter the results of the election? And if so, how? And why?

Still waiting for a reply on this. Since nobody weighed in I'm assuming it's really NOT a big deal, and that it's just made up nonsense from the left.

oldno7

03-25-2017, 07:16 PM

,,,

oldno7

03-25-2017, 07:17 PM

:lol8:

Brian in SLC

03-26-2017, 12:00 PM

Damn... it must be miserable living your life hoping your president fails or will be impeached.

I keep hoping he pulls his head out of his arse...but, as long as he doesn't (and hasn't) been able to drive the US into the ground, I'm not miserable at all. But, he continues to be an embarrassment. Nationally and internationally.

Read his twitter feed...any that stuff sound "presidential" to you? You find it uplifting? Does it make you hopeful?

Like I said up thread, there's a bunch of his campaign promises I'd like to see him pull off.

I alway thought Obama was a dumbass (ditto Bush 2) , but I was always cheering for him to succeed.

A laughable statement at best. More fake news? You never, ever cheered for him to succeed but went on and on about what you called his failures. And, calling him a dumbass?

Trump is around for the long haul, better get used to it. If they couldn't nail Slick Willy on perjury and obstruction of justice, of which he was without doubt guilty, they will never get anywhere with the Russian unicorn.

Oh, "they" impeached Bill. And that legacy still hangs around his neck like a lodestone.

Trump is losing more credibility every day. He golfs more than governs. This go 'round with "repeal and replace" is the start of how ineffective he'll become. And, its pretty much a given that anything he says is a lie.

Honestly, an outsider, non politician has appeal. His "drain the swamp" was a great idea. But, he didn't and isn't. Obamacare needs to be fixed, but, I read Trumpcare and it fell way, way short of any fix. Was dead on arrival. With a Republican majority....and 7 years to come up with a plan...? Well...we're still waiting. Blaming the Democrats...hilarious.

But...glass half full. Good things he's done?

HR 255 and HR 321. Women and STEM. That's a good thing.

But the list of things he's done that I don't agree with...is Huuuuge. Ha ha.

First 100 days...we'll see how he ends up. Far short, methinks.

Term limits? Crickets.

Hasn't refused his salary yet.

Make two and four year college more affordable? Nada. His budget cuts funding in financial aid for education.

He did sign the ban on white house officials lobbying on the behalf of a foreign gov't. Funny considering his NSA choice was Turkey's guy.

Has not done the five year ban on lobbying post White House or congress, though.

Etc.

I'd sure they'll be some interesting fake news to come out of the Manafort testimony...

Tick tick tick...

Brian in SLC

03-26-2017, 12:21 PM

Still waiting for a reply on this. Since nobody weighed in I'm assuming it's really NOT a big deal, and that it's just made up nonsense from the left.

Did you listen to Comey's testimony? The real time tweet dismissal was...interesting.

Remember Watergate or Iran/Contra?

Its far from made up nonsense.

Putin didn't like Obama or HRC. Do you think its no big deal if Russia influenced the US election? Do you think it would be no big deal if Trump's campaign helped Russia influence the election?

How? Fake news and hacking email for starters. Conspiracy theories. Propaganda.

What I can't understand is how some folks get a pass on all this. Ends justify the means I suppose. Heavy sigh.

Just say no, unless its for the Contras...

"I don't remember."

Iceaxe

03-26-2017, 02:34 PM

I keep hoping he pulls his head out of his arse...but, as long as he doesn't (and hasn't) been able to drive the US into the ground, I'm not miserable at all. But, he continues to be an embarrassment. Nationally and internationally.

Read his twitter feed...any that stuff sound "presidential" to you? You find it uplifting? Does it make you hopeful?

Like I said up thread, there's a bunch of his campaign promises I'd like to see him pull off.

A laughable statement at best. More fake news? You never, ever cheered for him to succeed but went on and on about what you called his failures. And, calling him a dumbass?

Oh, "they" impeached Bill. And that legacy still hangs around his neck like a lodestone.

Trump is losing more credibility every day. He golfs more than governs. This go 'round with "repeal and replace" is the start of how ineffective he'll become. And, its pretty much a given that anything he says is a lie.

Honestly, an outsider, non politician has appeal. His "drain the swamp" was a great idea. But, he didn't and isn't. Obamacare needs to be fixed, but, I read Trumpcare and it fell way, way short of any fix. Was dead on arrival. With a Republican majority....and 7 years to come up with a plan...? Well...we're still waiting. Blaming the Democrats...hilarious.

But...glass half full. Good things he's done?

HR 255 and HR 321. Women and STEM. That's a good thing.

But the list of things he's done that I don't agree with...is Huuuuge. Ha ha.

First 100 days...we'll see how he ends up. Far short, methinks.

Term limits? Crickets.

Hasn't refused his salary yet.

Make two and four year college more affordable? Nada. His budget cuts funding in financial aid for education.

He did sign the ban on white house officials lobbying on the behalf of a foreign gov't. Funny considering his NSA choice was Turkey's guy.

Has not done the five year ban on lobbying post White House or congress, though.

Etc.

I'd sure they'll be some interesting fake news to come out of the Manafort testimony...

Tick tick tick...

Hi, I'm Brian in SLC.
Everything I predicted during the last presidential election turned out to be woefully wrong. I also get all my news from CNN. So please, listen closely to my words of wisdom and advice.

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2012/7-13/znzXhgeLzB-4.png

rockgremlin

03-26-2017, 05:40 PM

^^^ Shane, did you draw that unicorn freehand in MS Paint? If so, I'm impressed. Print that baby out and slap it on the fridge.

rockgremlin

03-26-2017, 06:12 PM

Brian in SLC

03-26-2017, 07:20 PM

...and yes, I did listen to Comey's testimony. I guess my two biggest concerns with that are: 1. How can I trust him. How do I know he's not just trying to save his own skin? There's plenty of information out there that could possibly implicate him.

2. Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's assume Russia DID intervene with the election. To what end? Why would Russia want Trump to be president so badly that they would influence the election? Not seeing a clear motive here. Let's hear your best conspiracy theory as to why Russia hates H.R.C. so much.

1) I don't know how you can trust him. He's the head of the FBI? Didn't do HRC any favors pre election, eh?

2) There's been bad blood between Putin and the Obama admin for some time. Sanctions. Removing "diplomats". Crimea.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-russia-hillary-clinton-united-states-europe-516895 (http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-russia-hillary-clinton-united-states-europe-516895)

Its not really a "conspiracy theory" that Putin is no fan of HRC. They have a well documented dislike of each other.

Mix that in with Trump's talk about NATO, saying that he doubted Russia was even in Crimea...etc etc.

My conspiracy theory..has to do with Russia's main exports, OPEC and Iran. Who's economy stood to take a beatin' if the US made nice nice with Iran? Ditto OPEC keeping the price of a barrel of oil low. Gotta be killin' the Russian oil economy.

Any how...Russia will be interesting to watch. They could implode on their own (latest arrests and protests hitting the wires).

Quite a stew.

Scott P

03-26-2017, 07:52 PM

Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's assume Russia DID intervene with the election. To what end? Why would Russia want Trump to be president so badly that they would influence the election? Not seeing a clear motive here. Let's hear your best conspiracy theory as to why Russia hates H.R.C. so much.

As I pointed out earlier, in my opinion, most of the Russia-Putin connection is overblown and there is a lot of non-sense going around about it, but there are several reasons (none of which are secret) that Putin preferred Trump in the election.

Some of them I can think of (none of which are secret) are as follows:

1. Trump isn't a fan of NATO.
2. Trump and Putin are both oil men and Trump wants to scale back on alternative energy as well as pulling out of the Paris agreement.
3. Trump has said that he would negotiate with Assad instead of arming the rebels (I actually agree with Putin and Trump on this as I feel overthrowing Assad will have the same results as it did when overthrowing Saddam).
4. Trump is viewed as being harder on ISIS and Putin hates ISIS (I also share Trump's and Putin's view on this).

Anyway, it is certainly possible (probably even likely) that Russia did try to meddle in the election. One reason I am not concerned that much about it is because the US does this all the time, including among our allies. It is hypocritical to make a big deal about it and cry foul since the US does the same thing on a regular basis.

rockgremlin

03-26-2017, 07:56 PM

^^^ Thanks for the great insight, fellas!!

Iceaxe

03-26-2017, 08:43 PM

As I pointed out earlier, in my opinion, most of the Russia-Putin connection is overblown and there is a lot of non-sense going around about it, there are several reasons (none of which are secret) that Putin preferred Trump in the election,

Some of them I can think of (non of which are secret) are as follows:

1. Trump isn't a fan of NATO.
2. Trump and Putin are both oil men and Trump wants to scale back on alternative energy as well as pulling out of the Paris agreement.
3. Trump has said that he would negotiate with Assad instead of arming the rebels (I actually agree with Putin and Trump on this as I feel overthrowing Assad will have the same results as it did when overthrowing Saddam).
4. Trump is viewed as being harder on ISIS and Putin hates ISIS (I also share Trump's and Putin's view on this).

Anyway, it is certainly possible (probably even likely) that Russia did try to meddle in the election. One reason I am not concerned that much about it is because the US does this all the time, including among our allies. It is hypocritical to make a big deal about it and cry foul since the US does the same thing on a regular basis.

^^^Nailed it^^^

Iceaxe

03-26-2017, 11:30 PM

Myself and many others will agree.... If Gorsuch is named to SCOTUS Trumps presidency is a success and anything else he accomplishes is just icing on the cake.

With a little luck Trump will also get to replace Ginsberg, that would be outstanding. I seriously doubt RBG will live 4 more years as her health is failing.

It also looks like Trump will get to replace Kennedy as he is considering stepping down while the getting is good.

Talk about hitting the trifecta! That would send this country on my dream trajectory for the rest of my life.

nelsonccc

03-27-2017, 12:30 PM

uintafly

03-27-2017, 03:23 PM

Iceaxe

03-27-2017, 04:09 PM

The problem for you is that I have been making small sacrifices to the gods to keep RBG's heart beating for the next 4 years.

The problem with that strategy is virgins of legal age are becoming kind of rare.

In my humble opinion the left is making a huuuuuge mistake in forcing the GOP to go nuclear to get Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. The left needs to work out some type of deal where they will give Gorsuch the seat provided the 60 votes remains in effect for all future SCOTUS justices. The left really has nothing to lose as Gorsuch will get the seat.

I'm not a fan of simple majorities as it's nothing but two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

twotimer

03-27-2017, 06:37 PM

I'm old enough to remember Watergate. That took two years to unravel. This time, the job was outsourced to the Russians. That smells of treason to me.

You really don't think this is an issue?

The difference between Nixon and Trump is that Nixon had and wouldn't turn over the goods...if Trump was guilty of treason by colluding with the Ruskies his ass would have been grass by now.

Just keep your fingers crossed and click your heels twice, eh?

Brian in SLC

03-27-2017, 08:15 PM

In my humble opinion the left is making a huuuuuge mistake in forcing the GOP to go nuclear to get Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. The left needs to work out some type of deal where they will give Gorsuch the seat provided the 60 votes remains in effect for all future SCOTUS justices. The left really has nothing to lose as Gorsuch will get the seat.

POTUS tweet about an hour ago: The Democrats will make a deal with me on healthcare as soon as ObamaCare folds - not long. Do not worry, we are in very good shape!

I think there will be deals...

Funny...can't work within his own party...that he'll consider working the other side of the aisle....interesting.

POTUS tweet: The Republican House Freedom Caucus was able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. After so many bad years they were ready for a win!

His twitter feed is wild!

Iceaxe

03-27-2017, 08:49 PM

What's so wild about his Twitter feed? Looks to me as if Trump is simply stating the obvious as he is correct on both counts.

Iceaxe

03-27-2017, 09:57 PM

FWIW - The Freedom Caucuss saved Trump's ass and the House Republicans from suicide by Ryan Care.

Ryan's bill was extremely unpopular with only 17% support. If it had of passed it would have torpedoed Trumps presidency as he would have owned healthcare. The media would beat him unmercifully for the next 4 years with every single healthcare issue and problem that came along.

[emoji631]

Brian in SLC

03-27-2017, 10:17 PM

What's so wild about his Twitter feed? Looks to me as if Trump is simply stating the obvious as he is correct on both counts.

Besides tossin' the freedom caucus folks under the bus...

His tweets about the uranium Clinton Russia stuff is...out there...

Nearly 70 days...coming up on the first 100...

hank moon

03-27-2017, 11:41 PM

oldno7

03-28-2017, 07:42 AM

Digging the Fantasy Politics commentary. There's just not enough popcorn to last nearly 4 years - or is there?

:popcorn:
au contraire--the other 50% of us endured 8 years of crazy progressiveness.

of course, we didn't have time for popcorn and protest, we have jobs!!

hank moon

03-28-2017, 08:25 AM

Politics has always been somewhat of a game, but lately it seems more and more "winner take all" and "now it's my turn" (to undo the stuff the last guy did). Of course this scheme suits the establishment nicely as it keeps us divided and impotent. Seriously, we all have to live with these laws, so why do we not work together to make them better, instead of tearing them apart every 4 to 8 years. over and over again?

Should human health care (for example) be so strongly influenced by ideology? Is it right to profit from an "industry" that is not subject to normal market forces, such as freedom of choice?

rockgremlin

03-28-2017, 01:12 PM

Trump throws Obama's clean energy plan out the window:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43659435&nid=157

I applaud this move. Needed to be done.

Stop trying to squash the coal industry via executive order. Let natural gas and renewables kill coal organically (pun intended).

Iceaxe

03-28-2017, 03:30 PM

Digging the Fantasy Politics commentary. There's just not enough popcorn to last nearly 4 years - or is there?

:popcorn:

Fantasy?!?

There was nothing in that post that was not absolute and undeniable fact.

CHECK - Ryan's bill was extremely unpopular with only 17% support.
CHECK - Trump would have owned healthcare.
CHECK - The media would beat him unmercifully for the next 4 years with every single healthcare issue and problem.

So where is the fantasy?!?

:ne_nau:

Trump is neither a Democrat or Republican, he is a populist. Trump is also a pragmatic, The sooner both sides figure that out the sooner both sides will be able to get shit done.

hank moon

03-28-2017, 04:58 PM

Fantasy?!?

There was nothing in that post that was not absolute and undeniable fact.

CHECK - Ryan's bill was extremely unpopular with only 17% support.
CHECK - Trump would have owned healthcare.
CHECK - The media would beat him unmercifully for the next 4 years with every single healthcare issue and problem.

So where is the fantasy?!?

:ne_nau:

Trump is neither a Democrat or Republican, he is a populist. Trump is also a pragmatic, The sooner both sides figure that out the sooner both sides will be able to get shit done.

Not questioning any facts. "Fantasy Politics" as in a Superbowl, winner/loser attitude toward politics.

Iceaxe

03-28-2017, 09:25 PM

More WINNING!

Consumer confidence in March soared to the highest level in more than 16 years, according to data released Tuesday. The Conference Board said its consumer confidence index leapt to 125.6 in March from 116.1 in February. Consumer confidence has taken off since the election of President Donald Trump.

Tick... Tick... Tick...

Brian in SLC

03-30-2017, 08:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-UCb5rOGXo&feature=youtu.be&t=7s

Brian in SLC

03-30-2017, 10:29 PM

Interim President Pence?

Iceaxe

03-31-2017, 07:18 AM

Interim President Pence?
There is no such thing as an interim president in the US Democratic Republic. You are either president or you are not.

Your complete lack of understanding about our government, how it functions and it's constitutional responsibilities surprises me.

Brian in SLC

03-31-2017, 07:31 AM

There is no such thing as an interim president in the US Democratic Republic. You are either president or you are not.

Your complete lack of understanding about our government, how it functions and it's constitutional responsibilities surprises me.

Article II section 1.

Edit to add: 25th amendment. "Acting" president. In the "interim". Ha ha.

President Hatch?

Iceaxe

03-31-2017, 08:23 AM

Article II section 1.

Edit to add: 25th amendment. "Acting" president. In the "interim". Ha ha.

President Hatch?
Try again sport... unless you really think Trump will write a letter appointing Pence acting president, which can be reversed at any time by a second letter from Trump stating he is resuming command.

Trumps here to stay, probably easier to just get used to it.

Gorsuch should also be sworn in to SCOTUS next week, so Trumps work is done. Everything else we get from him is just titties and beer.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/c37dfca156647dedd76a3b43a0d7a27b.jpg

hank moon

03-31-2017, 11:05 AM

Anyway, it is certainly possible (probably even likely) that Russia did try to meddle in the election. One reason I am not concerned that much about it is because the US does this all the time, including among our allies. It is hypocritical to make a big deal about it and cry foul since the US does the same thing on a regular basis.

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/28/the-new-yorkers-big-cover-story-reveals-five-uncomfortable-truths-about-u-s-and-russia/

Is it true, as Putin claims, that the U.S., in fact, “has long funded media outlets and civil-society groups that meddle in Russian affairs”? Again, the article believes it’s significant enough to note that Putin claims this, but never bothers to tell its readers whether it is actually true, or even if evidence exists for it.

What makes this steadfast silence so bizarre is that there’s virtually no question that it is true. Some have noted the 1996 Time magazine cover (http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html) boasting of how U.S. advisers helped the U.S.’ preferred candidate, Boris Yeltsin, win Russia’s presidency. And, of course, the U.S. has continually and repeatedly interfered in the domestic political processes, including democratic elections, of more countries than one can count.

But far more relevant, and more recent, are the very active efforts on the part of the U.S. government to alter Russian civic society more to its liking. Many of these efforts, needless to say, are covert, but many are not. Here’s the National Endowment for Democracy — funded by the U.S. Congress through the State Department — openly touting (http://www.ned.org/region/eurasia/russia-2011/) the dozens of Russian political groups it funds.

86196

Bonus: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39401637

Iceaxe

03-31-2017, 11:58 AM

Russia is all the left has to hang their hat on. They will attempt to beat Trump with this for the next four years, kind of like the right beat Obama over his place of birth.

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2012/7-14/znzXhgeLzB-10.png

hank moon

03-31-2017, 12:42 PM

They will attempt to beat Trump with this for the next four years...

No doubt. And probably to Trump's net benefit. Bet he's happy for the no-effort distraction.

Brian in SLC

03-31-2017, 02:44 PM

No doubt. And probably to Trump's net benefit. Bet he's happy for the no-effort distraction.

Won't be a benefit to him or the country. Will be a gigantic distraction...or...will gain traction. Dunno. We'll see what deal Flynn cuts and what he knows and is willing to share. Of course, the POTUS tweeted that's its just a witch hunt...so, that must be true...

And, its not all the "left" has to hang their hat on. If Russia could use any information to influence US policy to their benefit, then, this reeks. Reeks.

Impeachment..."treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

If the Trump campaign conspired with Russia...

If folks were bribed...

If there's a conflicts of interests...and that pesky Emoluments Clause of the Constitution..the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act...well...its just hugely (huuuge) uncharted territory. That alone with keep the "left" plenty busy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6vIyCkEX14

Never a dull minute!

Iceaxe

03-31-2017, 03:34 PM

Won't be a benefit to him or the country. Will be a gigantic distraction...or...will gain traction. Dunno. We'll see what deal Flynn cuts and what he knows and is willing to share.

Asking for immunity anytime you are dealing in what "might eventually" be a criminal matter is standard operating procedure. It stops you from getting snowballed in any eventual collateral damage. Only a complete dumbass would volunteer information without immunity or talk without a lawyer present.

FWIW - Something like 8 Clinton staffers asked for and were granted immunity during her server investigation and they all had a lawyer present.

Flynn is a giant Nothingburger, I'll be happy to take wagers on the outcome if you feel differently.

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1517065581_10.jpg

And in the real news!

Gorsuch is about to become a member of SCOTUS!

And as of today there is about a 50/50 chance he will do it without having to break a filibuster. The Democrats would be totally retarded to force the GOP to go nuclear on this nominee as Gorsuch is pretty mainstream. Democrats would be well advised to save their arrows on this nominee, as they will need them in the near future.

oldno7

04-01-2017, 08:13 AM

....

oldno7

04-01-2017, 08:14 AM

,,,,,

oldno7

04-03-2017, 12:28 PM

--keeping a promise

http://ijr.com/2017/04/838970-president-trump-makes-good-promise-donate-salary-heres-first-quarter-went/

rockgremlin

04-03-2017, 02:25 PM

--keeping a promise

http://ijr.com/2017/04/838970-president-trump-makes-good-promise-donate-salary-heres-first-quarter-went/

Donating his first quarter salary ($78,000 bucks) to the National Parks Service.

Love him or hate him, that's pretty cool.

hank moon

04-03-2017, 03:46 PM

Donating his first quarter salary ($78,000 bucks) to the National Parks Service.

Love him or hate him, that's pretty cool.

Super cool.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39486543

Sean Spicer on Monday handed a cheque for $78,333 (£62,786) to Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, who oversees national parks and monuments.
Mr Trump had previously said he would donate his entire annual salary.
But critics quickly pointed out his donation went to an agency he wants to cut by more than a billion in funding.
Mr Trump's budget proposal calls for a 12% ($1.5bn) cut to the Interior Department, which oversees the National Park Service.

twotimer

04-03-2017, 06:35 PM

....To me, this is what it's all about. The story of the century really should be how corrupt a major political party had become, and it's exposure. If Hillary would have won, our country would have been handed to a bonafide mafia...with most of the major media on board.

Whoever blew the lid on these people deserves a medal.

Oldno's image #174

stefan

04-03-2017, 07:15 PM

Super cool.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39486543

Sean Spicer on Monday handed a cheque for $78,333 (£62,786) to Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, who oversees national parks and monuments.
Mr Trump had previously said he would donate his entire annual salary.
But critics quickly pointed out his donation went to an agency he wants to cut by more than a billion in funding. Mr Trump's budget proposal calls for a 12% ($1.5bn) cut to the Interior Department, which oversees the National Park Service.

not to mention the cost his trips to mar-a-lago have cost tax payers ... 3 trips alone may have cost 25 times his annual salary.

oldno7

04-04-2017, 05:23 AM

Sombeech

04-04-2017, 08:02 AM

--keeping a promise

http://ijr.com/2017/04/838970-president-trump-makes-good-promise-donate-salary-heres-first-quarter-went/

ha ha, and yet so many people seemed pissed off that he donated it at all.

stefan

04-04-2017, 11:11 AM

He's just trying to keep up with the vacationer in chief:

Judicial Watch estimates that the final costs of Obama’s unnecessary vacation and political travel will well exceed $100 million,”

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-obama-travel-costs-bring-eight-year-total-96-million/

and I don't see where he (zero)donated anything back into the system.

so, since you're more interested in comparing, at his current rate he could be on track to outpace obama's spending on similar travel many times over.

but it seems, at least to me, that it's more about whether his actions match up with what he said (http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/245884-trump-i-would-rarely-leave-the-white-house) he would do:

TRUMP: “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done. I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off."

But your quick to criticize someone giving 78,000 to the NPS:ne_nau:

sure i appreciate that he chose the NPS for donation ... but when he donates a relatively tiny sum of money while simultaneously calling for a massive cut that will significantly impact the NPS (as hank has quoted in his article), there is little to get excited about. (note, for example, the NPS has over $11 billion in deferred maintenance.) ... and when his frequent weekend travel costs many many times his annual salary, it makes the donation to a government agency marginal compared with his use of taxpayer dollars.

uintafly

04-04-2017, 01:16 PM

not to mention the cost his trips to mar-a-lago have cost tax payers ... 3 trips alone may have cost 25 times his annual salary.

Or the cost of keeping his wife and son protected right in the heart of NYC. I don't really blame her as I wouldn't want to sleep with him either but I think the cost is a bit excessive to taxpayers.

By the way, how do the resident Trump boosters feel about cancellation of pretty much every clean energy and global warming initiative if his budget goes through? Or do you agree with him that gw is a Chinese conspiracy?

rockgremlin

04-04-2017, 04:42 PM

The take away from all of this is...haters gonna hate. Doesn't matter what Trump does or doesn't do, the haters will still find something to bitch about.

That said, Trump should just donate his second term salary to the NRA or Lockheed Martin.

Or better yet, just shrink wrap the rest of his four year salary up on pallets and ship them to Iran....er, wait....Obama already did that...

Iceaxe

04-04-2017, 05:47 PM

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/a4cfbe8ac7ba74d6fdf6d1426bf5c704.jpg

Scott P

04-05-2017, 09:29 PM

I assume you noticed the only poll that really matters in the end is up over 21,000.

86721

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 06:38 AM

DJIA on November 8, 2016 = 18,332
DJIA on April 5, 2017 = 20,648

Since Trump was elected we have done nothing but win in the financial sector. My personal net worth has increased by over 10% in less then 6 months. Yours should have also if you have invested wisely. That is an incredible increase in wealth after only 6 months any way you slice it that has seldom been seen in history.

Not repealing Obama care hurt stocks in the short term, but I have a feeling Obama care is doomed and will be gone one way or another in the near future.

Scott P

04-06-2017, 07:22 AM

I always expected (and continue to expect) that Trump would do well for the business sector and stock performance has been good, but the market has been rising since 2009.

That is an incredible increase in wealth after only 6 months any way you slice it that has seldom been seen in history.

The Dow went up more than 33% in Obama's first year in office, so it has been seen several times in history.

86723

Anyway, I was just ribbing you since I chose the time period when you said the only poll that mattered was the DOW. :wink:

My personal net worth has increased by over 10% in less then 6 months. Yours should have also if you have invested wisely

Even though I feel that I have invested wisely (other than perhaps buying a house here, but I didn't see that coming), my net worth has gone down, but I don't blame the president or anyone else for that.

My home value has overall been falling in value for several years now. My house used to be valued at close to $400,000, now we haven't gotten an offer over $150,000. The same story is true all over town though.

The biggest factor is Peabody Energy, which this town is dependent on and the biggest indicator of the region's economy. When I moved here in late 2004, the stock price (I don't own any Peabody stock, but it is still the main indicator of the economy here) was around $100 a share. Now it is 38 cents.

86724

When Trump got elected, Peabody Stock skyrocketed, but now it is much lower than it was before the election. I think the reality has set in that even though Trump is coal-friendly, the coal industry isn't coming back to its past glory.

The other factor is that Kimberly got a heart surgery in January. In addition to the cost of the heart surgery, she isn't/wasn't allowed to return to work until fully released by the doctors. She was allowed to go back for a few hours a couple weeks early at one job, but not the other. Plus, I have had some very expensive oral surgeries lately (dental insuance maxes out at $1,500, procedures costs many, many times more!).

So, losing our home value, having to pay for a heart surgery and losing three months of income due to loss of work, plus having oral surgeries isn't going to bode well for net worth, no matter how you slice it.

That said, we'll be fine and will recover.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 08:18 AM

The biggest factor is Peabody Energy, which this town is dependent on and the biggest indicator of the region's economy.

Well I got some good news for you.... I've been bidding a lot of projects recently with Peabody. They are ramping up to dig a lot of coal. I'm not saying coal will ever return to what it once was as it's a dying energy source, but you should see an upswing. I'm not against switching to clean fuel, I'm just against switching so quickly that it kills our economy while other countries we must compete against continue to burn cheap coal.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 08:28 AM

So, having to pay for a heart surgery and losing three months of income due to loss of work isn't going to bode well for net worth, no matter how you slice it.

I thought Obama Care was suppose to save American's from catastrophic health care costs?!?

***said with tongue in cheek***

Yeah, healthcare is a killer on savings. I know several folks in your same position.

FWIW: I got my companies new health insurance premium yesterday. Our insurance is going up over 20% this year (it went up 12% last year). I now pay just over $1500 a month in insurance for each of my employee's. That's a lot of coin. Thank's Obama.

uintafly

04-06-2017, 08:50 AM

I thought Obama Care was suppose to save American's from catastrophic health care costs?!?

***said with tongue in cheek***

Yeah, healthcare is a killer on savings. I know several folks in your same position.

FWIW: I got my companies new health insurance premium yesterday. Our insurance is going up over 20% this year (it went up 12% last year). I now pay just over $1500 a month in insurance for each of my employee's. That's a lot of coin. Thank's Obama.

Just think how nice single payer would be! :nod:

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 09:36 AM

Just think how nice single payer would be! :nod:
If you have been following this thread you know that's something I support. It's not my first option if I were God, but given the politics we are forced to work within I see it as the only real solution.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 09:40 AM

So what is Trump going to do in Syria?

Trump finally gets his first major chance to show us what kind of leader he will be..... Assad is already about 5 miles over Obama's red line in the sand.

Scott P

04-06-2017, 09:46 AM

So what is Trump going to do in Syria?

Trump finally gets his first major chance to show us what kind of leader he will be..... Assad is already about 5 miles over Obama's red line in the sand.

Good question, but to me Assad is the lesser of two evils. He is a thug, but is better than the alternative. If Assad is overthrown, it will be the same type situation that happened when Saddam was overthrown.

Assad hasn't done anything to the US. The opposition against Assad has. A secular dictator is better than religious extremists.

Ousting Assad will strengthen ISIS and al-Qaeda. Both would love to have the US do their dirty work for them by ousting Assad.

I do think that we should support and protect our allies/those who spport our values, but neither the opposition or Assad fits in this category. I can guarantee you that the opposition that is fighting Assad isn't doing so to set up a peace-loving, freedom loving, pro-West democracy. They want to do the opposite and outing Assad will help them do so.

We have enough problems to fix here without getting into a lose-lose situation war in Syria.

oldno7

04-06-2017, 11:23 AM

Senate going nuke lear..

thanks to dingy harry....

the country is hopelessly divided and can likely, only get worse..

twotimer

04-06-2017, 01:09 PM

So what is Trump going to do in Syria?

I'd say that what Scott said is pretty close to reality, but there actually may be big changes with this Syria mess.

This is all just the continuation of the great chess game that we and Russia have been playing for decades. They have moves to make and pawns to sacrifice, and so do we. Trump is getting ready to sit down and deal with them, and I would imagine Putin would like to see the Obama sanctions lifted instead of grinding out several more years of it. The Russians were buzzing all over Washington before and especially after the election trying just this...now the time has come.

Assad's ass may be grass. One thing for sure...we're going to have a pretty clear picture of our foreign policy within the next month.

I saw episode of Frontline about Damascus and life in Assad controlled Syria. The downtown is thumping with music and disco's even though explosions can be heard in the distance. There's plenty of food because of a supply line with Beruit. Lot's of corruption and the economy is basically a black market. There's also a healthy slave trade going on with the refugee girls with Arabs from all over scooping them up. It's like Soddam and Gomorrah,

If the Russians end up controlling that country, I say let them.

Brian in SLC

04-06-2017, 03:39 PM

So what is Trump going to do in Syria?

Trump finally gets his first major chance to show us what kind of leader he will be..... Assad is already about 5 miles over Obama's red line in the sand.

Trump has seemed to finally acknowledge that he can't continue to blame Barry. Its his shit sandwich now. He's at least changed his rhetoric on Assad.

Thorny subject to say the least. Complicated. And, the options all have a down side.

We'll see how he does. This and North Korea could get interesting...

uintafly

04-06-2017, 03:50 PM

Trump has seemed to finally acknowledge that he can't continue to blame Barry. Its his shit sandwich now. He's at least changed his rhetoric on Assad.

Thorny subject to say the least. Complicated. And, the options all have a down side.

We'll see how he does. This and North Korea could get interesting...

North Korea especially. How quickly could North Korea kill 10 million South Koreans and vice versa? 72 hours? 24 hours? As insane as Kim Jung Un is, I wouldn't want to be one of the 25+ million people living in and around Seoul. This is another rock and hard place for the US. Any preemptive strike by us would immediately be answered by an enormous artillery barrage against South Korea. These types of situations is what freaks me out about the thin skinned and probably unhinged president we currently have.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 04:56 PM

The Dow went up more than 33% in Obama's first year in office, so it has been seen several times in history.

I've been thinking about this and there is a HUGE difference is the 33% you quote for Obama and the 10% increase so far under Trump.

That 33% Obama increase didn't even bring us back to an all time high on the DJIA. Trumps 10% has all been a new high. Yeah, I understand Obama inherited a shit sandwich, but comparing the increase between the two is apples and oranges. So perhaps I worded my original statement poorly..... Watching the stock market go from an all time high and gain an additional 10% is a very rare historical event,

My home value has overall been falling in value for several years now. My house used to be valued at close to $400,000, now we haven't gotten an offer over $150,000. The same story is true all over town though.

The biggest factor is Peabody Energy, which this town is dependent on and the biggest indicator of the region's economy. When I moved here in late 2004, the stock price (I don't own any Peabody stock, but it is still the main indicator of the economy here) was around $100 a share. Now it is 38 cents.

You do realize that you have Obama to thank for about 90% of that lose in value on both your home and Peabody stock don't you? We can argue the exact percentage but it's a big number any way you look at it.

I think I've mentioned it before but about 70% of my engineering work is in mining and energy. Obama's administration basically attempted to bankrupt the coal industry through rules, requirements and regulations. Obama did manage to put a lot of coal companies out of business.

What I design for the coal industry is mostly the handling equipment like conveyors, truck loadouts, train loadouts, chutes, hoppers, any method of moving large amounts of coal fast and cheap. 10 years ago were were designing lots of this type of stuff. The past 8 years nearly zero. Lots of that type of handling equipment is currently on the drawing board.

So bottomline I just want you to understand what Obama's 'clean energy' has cost you personally. I know it's cost me a lot personally in lost work. My problem is you design one wind turbine and they use the exact same design to build 10,000 more, so there is no money in the design portion as I only get paid for the one wind turbine.

:soapbox:

twotimer

04-06-2017, 06:28 PM

Looks like Trump just layed down a marker. It's a whole new world, boys and girls.

Brian in SLC

04-06-2017, 06:38 PM

Yeah...dessert after dinner with China's president?

Tomahawks.

At least according to the fake liberal news outlets.

Wow. Ratings boost? More importantly (to Iceaxe), is, how will the market react?

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 07:05 PM

More importantly (to Iceaxe), is, how will the market react?

The stock market will drop as it doesn't like uncertainty.

accadacca

04-06-2017, 07:08 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170407/731cd372c0b3414e7b5f433653b54c9f.jpg

accadacca

04-06-2017, 07:19 PM

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 07:36 PM

Hillary Clinton called on the US to take out Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad's Air Force in the wake of the chemical attack that killed more than 70 people.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/hillary-clinton-syria-assad/index.html?sr=fbCNN040717hillary-clinton-syria-assad1227AMStoryLink&linkId=36275285

It will be interesting to see how the Clinton News Network spins Trump is a failure for doing exactly what Hillary suggested, but I'm sure they will try.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 07:43 PM

On an interesting side note I wonder how dinner with China's Xi went tonight....

Trump: Yo Xi, you know how Russia is in bed with Syria and is doing little to help solve the Syrian civil war and unrest in the Middle East?

Xi: I think I heard something about that.

Trump: Hold my Pepsi and watch this.....

Trump: Now Xi, how about we discuss a solution to our North Korea problem.......

Scott P

04-06-2017, 08:03 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170407/731cd372c0b3414e7b5f433653b54c9f.jpg

That's actually good advice.

twotimer

04-06-2017, 08:06 PM

On an interesting side note I wonder how dinner with China's Xi went tonight....

I'd say that Trump pulled a hat trick tonight. All he had to do was something absolutely necessary...ANYONE that uses WMDs should be spanked immediately. What a fart in the wind Obama was.

Scott P

04-06-2017, 09:06 PM

You do realize that you have Obama to thank for about 90% of that lose in value on both your home and Peabody stock don't you? We can argue the exact percentage but it's a big number any way you look at it.

Obviously I know that the regulations have hurt the coal industry's profits.

I actually know a lot more than you think I know. If you want to know the truth, I went to go work for the coal industry after my wife started having heart problems. With my old job we were hit two years in a row with our max out of pocket medical costs of $30,000 a year. Even though we have worked hard to save money, I didn't think we could afford to do that every single year. So I went to work for the only industry in this area, the coal industry. I thought that even though I support alternative energy, I might even be able to make a positive impact in an industry I wasn't 100% on board with. I used to track the coal industry's production. It was my job and I was good with numbers.

Well, I couldn't have been more wrong in my decision. I was always asked to do things which I considered to be completely dishonest and unethical. I would justify myself by trying to convince myself that I was only doing this for fear of losing everything due to medical expenses. I decided that I myself would only use alternative energy for power, so I really wasn't hurting anyone. I did what I was told. Under instructions of my employer, I even met with Mitt Romney on behalf of the coal industry. Don't believe me? Check the newspapers (which I never hoped would never be read by anyone who knew me):

http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/romney-mines-craig-crowd

http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2012/may/30/romneys-speech-craig-rallies-behind-gop-ideals/

I made a lot of money and had good medical insurance, but I lost my dignity and became more and more depressed. I betrayed my own beliefs and the coal industry was more unethical than I ever imagined. They aren't honest either.

After a few years everyone just thought that I was shy and not outspoken. The truth was that I hate doing unethical things and would just keep my mouth shut. Since the company wanted me to be more of a public figure and be seen more in the public, they sent me to some expensive training in Vegas in hopes that I would overcome my "fear of speaking in public". Actually, I have no fear of speaking in public; I was just ashamed and embarrassed about working for the company. So, after the training, I left and told the company that I couldn't do this anymore.

Now I make a lot less money, the insurance isn't as good, and my job is less stable. I do have my dignity back though.

I guess that I am not willing to sell my soul to the Devil to make more money. I actually did so temporarily, and tried to justify it by saying that I was providing a life saving procedure for my wife. I was wrong and am very ashamed about working for an unethical company and industry.

So bottomline I just want you to understand what Obama's 'clean energy' has cost you personally.

Obama's clean energy plan may have costs me money, but he coal industry cost me my dignity. I have no doubt whatsoever on which has more value.

Working for the coal industry is one of the biggest regrets that I have. The only advice I have to give on the matter is to always stay true to yourself.

Iceaxe

04-06-2017, 09:48 PM

hank moon

04-06-2017, 10:12 PM

ANYONE that uses WMDs should be spanked immediately.

Ain't no paddle big enough?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/nov/15/usa.iraq

Scott P

04-06-2017, 10:14 PM

I guess you would have to tell me about all your unethical experiences, because that is the complete opposite from my experience in mining. My customers are all extremely strict about following professional and industry standards. Or perhaps they know if asked to do something unethical I'd tell them straight up it's not going to happen. Either way, it's an issue that has never presented itself to me.

It has happened to me twice, once in the gold refining industry and once in the coal industry.

Without going into too many details, when I worked at the gold refinery, they were intentionally poisoning the city water supply in order to save money on pollution controls. My two ex-bosses were indicted for conspiracy:

https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2006/March/06_enrd_166.html

Charged:

https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2006/December/06_enrd_834.html

Unfortunately, I knew there was a lot of unethical practices going on (I worked there 1995-1999), but being in my 20's, I was too foolish to blow the whistle, my other employment regret of my life.

Incidentally, the place was always having chlorine leaks and explosions. I was actually severely burned (most of the skin off my arms and other places of my body) in a hydrogen explosion in 1997 while doing exactly what my supervisors told me to do (hydrogen is completely oder-less, so you can't tell when it builds up). While in the hospital, I told my supervisors exactly what happened and how. They told me "that can't happen, you must have done ____". I said no, I was doing what you told me to as instructed. So, while I was still in the hospital they had someone else try the same thing and he too got blown up and was life-flighted to the hospital I was in. I was a nice guy and still wanted a good job reference, so like a fool, I didn't sue, but I now days I would have. Having another guy blown up while I was still in the hospital probably would have made the case.

Unfortunately, even with the poisoning of the ground water, my ex-bosses only got a slap on the wrist. They never did do any jail time. They also did a lot worse things than what they were caught for.

As for the coal industry, I can tell you that they pollute a lot more than they let on and there are ways of getting around reporting it. Since this is a small town dependent on the coal industry, and I still live here, I won't say too much on a public forum (you never know who might read it), but I'll be happy to talk to you about it sometime in private.

Obviously, mining is an extremely important industry and necessary for civilization as we know it. I am by no means against mining. I can say however, that my stints with the gold and coal industries weren't positive (and I indeed did see unethical things occur), but obviously, not every company and industry is like that.

rockgremlin

04-07-2017, 01:01 AM

Scott - how did MSHA not get involved with all of this? The MSHA I know would be licking their chops for an opportunity to cite an operator that commits such egregious acts.

And I'm with Shane on this one. I've been in the mining industry for over a decade and the mines where I've worked have always been quite diligent at strictly playing by the rules. It's too expensive to gamble with safety and ethics.

Scott P

04-07-2017, 09:02 AM

Scott - how did MSHA not get involved with all of this? The MSHA I know would be licking their chops for an opportunity to cite an operator that commits such egregious acts.

The safety issues happened at the refinery, which is under OSHA rather than MSHA. OSHA did contact me while I was in the hospital and ask questions and took notes, but I never heard from them again. MSHA seems a lot more strict to me.

As far as safety goes, the mine was actually extremely safety cautious with the exception of the union. The reason that I say the union was the exception is because they make it almost impossible for someone to get fired. One of the truck drivers hit the blade operator and caused injury. The truck driver actually was fired, but he went to the union and the union made the company take him back.

As far as ethics go, I'll PM you and we can discuss it there.

Scott P

04-07-2017, 10:36 AM

I'd say that Trump pulled a hat trick tonight. All he had to do was something absolutely necessary...ANYONE that uses WMDs should be spanked immediately. What a fart in the wind Obama was.

Obama did go to congress and ask for permission to launch strikes against Syria. See here on Congress' own website:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/21

The Republican majority Congress voted against it.

See also here from Congress' website, where Obama was criticized for wanting to wanting to launch an attack against Assad for using chemical weapons (PS, the the Republican speaker actually has some very good points):

THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE PRESIDENT BEATS THE DRUMS FOR WAR

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Texas (Mr. Poe) for 5 minutes.

Mr. POE of Texas. Madam Speaker, the drums of war are being beaten by
the President who, ironically, won the Nobel Peace Prize. The ``Peace
President'' wants to fire missiles into Syria because tyrant Assad is
violating the rules of war by allegedly using chemical weapons. The
President's goal is not to remove Assad, not to destroy the chemical
weapons, but to send Assad a message.

To be clear, there is no imminent national security threat or
interest for the United States by us starting this war. And make no
mistake, shooting rockets into another country is an act of war.

War has consequences. What if the outlaw Assad chooses then to use
chemical weapons again or chooses to shoot back? He could retaliate
against the United States, one of our embassies, the Navy that fired
the rockets, or other U.S. military installations, or even specific
troops, or retaliate against his neighbor, Turkey, or Israel, using our
aggression as an excuse. In any of these situations, this limited war
escalates with more U.S. response, intervention, and involvement.

Now, who are the players in this war that is taking place already? On
one side you have Syria, tyrant Assad, with the aid of Russia, with the
aid of Iran that news reports say has 10,000 Iranian troops in Syria,
and Hezbollah. Hezbollah, as you remember, Madam Speaker, is a
terrorist group.

Then, on the other side, you have the Free Syrian Army. You have
patriots. You have mercenaries, paid soldiers from other countries. You
have criminals that have come in to just pillage the land and use this
as an opportunity. You also have al Nusra, an al Qaeda affiliate. You
also have al Qaeda from Iraq. Now, last time I recall, the United
States is already at war with al Qaeda. They are the enemy of the
United States.All of that may be down the road. And why would the United States
want to get involved in this situation?

So today, Madam Speaker, I have filed a resolution stating that no
U.S. funds will be used for this war with Syria. This religious civil
war is not our war. So no money for the ``Peace President's'' war. And
if he starts a war with Syria, I suggest the President return the Nobel
Peace Prize. If he really wants to send a message, he should follow
Samuel Goldwyn's advice: ``try Western Union.''
And that's just the way it is.

So now Republicans are happy about Trump doing exactly the same thing they criticized Obama for wanting to do? (Not that the Dem's would be much better).

Iceaxe

04-07-2017, 11:46 AM

Obama was pretty much considered a giant pussy by the entire planet when it came to a fight. I'm not saying that was good of bad, and that he didn't have legitimate reasons for going what he did. But that world perception did cause a lot of other issues.

For better or worse world perception of the US did a major 180 last night.

twotimer

04-07-2017, 12:13 PM

Obama did go to congress and ask for permission to launch strikes against Syria. See here on Congress' own website:

The Republican majority Congress voted against it.

So now Republicans are happy about Trump doing exactly the same thing they criticized Obama for wanting to do? (Not that the Dem's would be much better).Good post, Scott...I was aware of this but hadn't heard Poe's speech.

First of all, I believe Obama should have blown right past Congress just like Trump just did. If the UN, the US and Europe are going to sit by as these wars continue, then the chemical or WMD "red line" should be definitive, AT LEAST.

Also, I agree that if the Dems where running Congress right now, and Trump asked permission, they'd deny him, too. Almost certainly they'd frame it as Wag the Dog.

I don't care one bit about the Republicans this, or the Democrats that when it comes to decisive matters like this. The President did what had to be done and I'm glad for it. Besides, this may have a silver lining regardless of the rhetoric and posturing by our belligerents. We can wipe out virtually everything they have in a matter of hours, and it's about time we reminded them of that.

Trump had to react...and now he's going to sit across from the Russians and those people are going to damn well know they're not dealing with Obama anymore.

I wonder how comfortable Assad is surrounded by Russian mobsters?

Scott P

04-07-2017, 12:29 PM

Question to anyone supporting Syrian intervention:

How is this going to make things better?

Assad is indeed a thug, but he isn't a religious extremist and he hasn't done anything to the U.S.

This is Syria without Assad:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8wisarXsAAg2xh.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/04/22/25B83DC000000578-0-image-a-1_1449266970838.jpg

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2014/3/6//201436135755366734_20.jpg

Also, while using chemical weapons such as sarin gas is indeed very terrible, how is it worse than bombing the s*** out of everything, or using missiles and land mines? If you survive a gas attack, the long term affects are relatively minor compared to the effects of surviving and IED or landmine. Having been in the military, I can saw that I'd rather survive a Sarin attack over and IED or landmine. I'd rather be killed by gas than beheaded with a hacksaw or stoned, which is what the opposition to Assad does.

This isn't a knock against Trump or Trump supporters. Clinton wanted attack Assad as well. So does McCain and many other people.

I am all for military action when there might be a positive action and if we are protecting our allies and those who share our values. I can't see anything positive coming out of ousting Assad. Ousting Assad will just cause things to go from bad to worst, just as ousting Qaddafi and Saddam did.

Syria will not all of the sudden become a peace loving democracy if we oust Assad. We have nothing to gain by doing so and we will just get more entrenched in the mess.

Iceaxe

04-07-2017, 12:37 PM

And in today's important news....

Gorsuch is now on the Supreme Court
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/07/gorsuch-confirmed-to-supreme-court.html

This was my number one reason for supporting Trump in the 2016 election.

Replacing Ruth Bader Ginsburg will probably be next as I hear the supply of aborted bady fetus blood that has been keeping her alive is nearly exhausted.

USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSA

[emoji631]

oldno7

04-07-2017, 12:44 PM

Four battleships move within striking range of Syria as President Obama weighs military options after a reported 1,300 are killed in nerve gas attack on Damascus

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401382/Syria-U-S-battleships-Obama-weighs-options-1-300-killed-nerve-gas-attack.html#ixzz4davKSmlp
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twotimer

04-07-2017, 02:16 PM

Question to anyone supporting Syrian intervention:

How is this going to make things better?

Syria will not all of the sudden become a peace loving democracy if we oust Assad. We have nothing to gain by doing so and we will just get more entrenched in the mess.Oh c'mon, Scott...you should know that the Russians already have a hand picked successor. We're probably just getting around to it...you're looking for a pixie dust coating on this thing, and that's not the point. A "chess move" had to be made. There's a book I recommend you read "Six Days of War" by Michael B. Oren. It'll give you an insight to Russian/US diplomacy during proxy wars. Also read "The Cold War" by John Lewis Gaddis,,,and excellent read with the Soviet point of view from archives released by Yeltsin.

It's a move, Scott. Who the heck expects "Peace loving democracy"? Point out any Arab country over there that is. I certainly think the days of "cosmopolitan" Tehran, Beiruit or Cairo are gone.

You're not suggesting that Assad be ignored as he lobs this shit all over the place? Because there's "nothing we can do"? WTF?

Scott P

04-07-2017, 03:27 PM

It's a move, Scott.

Hopefully it stays that way. If this is the beginning of a "regime change" though, it will be another war, similar to, but smaller than Iraq, and probably with similar results.

I hope that it's the only move made on our part as far as a regime change.

You're not suggesting that Assad be ignored as he lobs this shit all over the place?

Because there's "nothing we can do"?

I didn't say there was nothing we can do, I said the alternative is worse. There is plenty that we can do including %@#$ up things worse like we did in Iraq and Libya.

What seems to be ignored is that the town that was targeted was a terrorists controlled city. On Wednesday, ISIS fighters slaughtered villagers with "sharp objects" and threw them in a blood filled mass grave. ISIS just released a kill lists of 8786 targets in the UK and USA:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/06/isis-slaughters-33-in-syria-with-sharp-tools.html

These are the groups fighting Assad. The alternative is not better. Assad is a brutal dictator, but I'd rather have Assad in charge of Syria than ISIS.

As far as what we can do, how about stop arming all of these terrorists groups and dictatorships? Very little arms are manufactured in the Middle East. Russia and the US are the ones arming both sides of the conflict.

There's a book I recommend you read

I will read those books, but I have some suggested reading for you as well. If Assad is ousted, come back and read my posts on this thread four or five years after the regime change, also noting that I successfully predicted the outcome of the Iraq War as well.

I actually want to be wrong on this, just as I wanted to be wrong on Iraq, but time will tell.

accadacca

04-07-2017, 04:21 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170407/8ae9f1f914ff9941833b523840f148ab.jpg

Iceaxe

04-07-2017, 05:18 PM

Si vis pacem, para bellum

That is a classic Latin adage which translates to "If you want peace, prepare for war".

Which is also where the popular 9mm, more properly known as the '9mm Parabellum' got it's name.

twotimer

04-07-2017, 06:04 PM

We're not far removed from scavenging carcasses. It's still a world where the biggest dick wins, like it or not.

Iceaxe

04-07-2017, 06:25 PM

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/7af7b541a3aedca9c804265e1ead8db2.jpg

oldno7

04-09-2017, 06:58 PM

:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Sombeech

04-10-2017, 08:29 PM

It really sucks when the interview doesn't go your way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3uaf1NFxXc

Iceaxe

05-12-2017, 09:08 AM

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/fixthis_large.jpg

Iceaxe

05-19-2017, 07:12 AM

:-)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/bdb8686b55e7c2a3d0095c32a34723f8.jpg

oldno7

05-19-2017, 05:31 PM

....

oldno7

05-22-2017, 06:08 AM

,,,,

Iceaxe

05-22-2017, 07:37 PM

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170523/171fc214b1355f78f298b67906cf59b1.jpg

Goat

05-22-2017, 07:43 PM

87133

One Weapons Agreement to Rule them all, One Weapons Agreement to find them,
One Weapons Agreement to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Arabia, Where the Oil Lies

Iceaxe

05-24-2017, 09:27 AM

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/fakenarrative_large.jpg

Brian in SLC

05-24-2017, 08:17 PM

Funny ad pops up on this thread...

87136

Tough sleddin' in Montana (my home state)!

Bit of roughhousing today...right on the eve of the election. Stay tuned!

How could you not like Rob Quist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKOnEyPjMlU

Brian in SLC

05-24-2017, 08:25 PM

http://www.fox8live.com/story/35511917/the-latest-quist-declines-to-comment-on-gianforte-scuffle

twotimer

05-24-2017, 08:52 PM

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/fakenarrative_large.jpgThat's friggin' funny.

I just spent a week camping and biking with 50 other people in Moab. Of the 25 or so that I know well, most (nearly all) are very liberal...some communists. Surprisingly, very little political talk came up but when it did, they are all highly attuned to the Russian thing. I mean focused on it alone, like it's all they've got.

I wish I would have been able to whip this comic out of my pocket. I would have laughed so hard!!!

twotimer

05-24-2017, 08:55 PM

http://www.fox8live.com/story/35511917/the-latest-quist-declines-to-comment-on-gianforte-scuffleOh well...I might begin to get a bit worried when they start beating the shit out of each other on the floor of Congress.

hank moon

05-27-2017, 07:56 AM

How about that lovely "Trump Effect"?

According to the Old God of the Jewish and Christian Faith, what GOP candidate Greg Gianforte did the night before the special election was inexcusable. Okay, technically, the Judaism 1.0 of my forebears with all the Smiting and Wrath, might have made some allowances for it. But as a matter of traditional ethics and morality, what he did was, again, inexcusable. But in the Bro Age, when one of your Bros does something wrong and oh-so-Broey — particularly if there’s proof that it happened so you can’t blame it on anonymous sources — the first thing you must do is defend your Bro’s actions. After Gianforte’s body slam, Twitter was full of people, even those of the blue checkmark variety, talking about how the Jacobs guy deserved it. I even caught Rob O’Neill on Fox saying that Jacobs was a “snowflake” and that the assault was “kinda funny” and that this was just “Montana Justice.”

Obviously, I have enormous respect for O’Neill’s accomplishments (he was the guy who plugged Osama bin Laden, which earns him a lifetime coupon for free drinks as far as I’m concerned), but this is repugnant and stupid and insulting to Montanans. If O’Neill were still in uniform and had done what Gianforte did, his career would have been destroyed and he’d likely be in a stockade. Oh, and it was Gianforte who literally freaked out in a fight-or-flight panic when asked a question about a frick’n CBO score! But Ben Jacobs is the snowflake?

Moreover, if a Democratic politician attacked, say, Jesse Watters (who routinely asks far more provocative questions than Jacobs did) never mind a serious reporter like James Rosen, the conservative media complex would be lit red with sirens and we’d all be covering our ears from the din of the “Aroogah! Aroogah! Battle Stations! Battle Stations!” blasting from the loudspeakers. So, congrats! You held a seat in Montana (which you were going to win anyway).

But no, for an entire day, countless people defended the assault because they didn’t like Jacobs, or they wanted to win an open House seat, or they wanted to play yet another round of whatabboutism, or help Donald Trump in some way or — in the case of the alt-right — because any attack on a Jew is defined as a good start.

So, let me ask the people who spent the day defending Gianforte: How do you feel now that he won? Is it all you hoped it would be? Oh, and how did you feel when he apologized? Did you regret all that Montana justice and he-had-it-coming talk? I mean, you probably didn’t really believe that stuff anyway. You just let people believe you did because the cause was so important. Or maybe you’re mad that Gianforte apologized after spending all that time arguing he did nothing wrong? Probably not — because one of the Orb’s first commandments is “Thou Shalt Not Care about Anyone’s Hypocrisy but the Enemy’s.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/g-file/448051/bro-age-donald-trump-underachiever-habits

Iceaxe

05-28-2017, 07:59 AM

:-)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170528/cd70b14ef5a6c30a71cb60393eef97c3.jpg

Iceaxe

06-01-2017, 11:48 AM

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/deadhorse_large.jpg

Iceaxe

06-03-2017, 06:46 AM

More people are working and they are working better jobs. To top it all off the stock market is booming. What are they whiny liberals going to cry about if Trump actually does make America great again?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-trump-make-america-grow-again-the-signs-are-hopeful-1495665202?nan_pid=1860607657

Scott P

06-06-2017, 07:18 PM

Serious question. How will this work?

http://time.com/4805666/donald-trump-infrastructure-roads-bridges-planes-plan/

I work for the private sector, but Trump really has the private sector scared as far as infrastructure goes. I have heard that there might not be any work at all in my area next year.

Although I'm 100% for cutting back on government waste, infrastructure is an area where we really do need to spend money.

I'd much rather see our tax money go there instead of on bull**** wars in the Middle East that have nothing at all to do with American freedom or values.

twotimer

06-06-2017, 08:55 PM

Serious question. How will this work?

Easy...just print it up and spend it like Obama did. Start burning thru the tax revenues of those that are yet to be born. The dollar is and will remain the king of currencies. Anyone bothered by this should buy gold, I guess.

There's no doubt that the Middle East is a rotten, stinking mess. But if we bail and let the cards fall as they may, it's likely to descent into anarchy...or is it?

Should we care? If the worst case scenario should happen, then that area of the planet will be like a black, nasty cancer. But then again, the whole continent of Africa is a virtual lost cause...so what difference does it make?

We sure live pretty damn nice over here, eh? But I agree that it would be great to have better roads. I just thank my lucky stars that my life wasn't suffering as a helpless victim over on the other side of the planet.

Scott P

06-06-2017, 09:50 PM

Easy...just print it up and spend it like Obama did. Start burning thru the tax revenues of those that are yet to be born. The dollar is and will remain the king of currencies. Anyone bothered by this should buy gold, I guess.

Unfortunately, that is how it has been working, but that's not what Trump is proposing.

Trump is now saying that the money for infrastructure that was in his campaign promises is going to come from private sources.

This isn't a knock against Trump, but a question on how it's going to work. It does have the industry scared right now.

Toll roads can work well for cities and highly populated areas.

If you live in a rural area, say here, I don't see it working so well. Going west on Highway 40, there is almost nothing for 120 miles until you hit Vernal. Going east on Highway 40, you hit Steamboat after about 45 miles. Going north on Highway 13 there is almost nothing until hit I-80 and then there is still nothing until you head east along I-80 to Rawlins. Going south you hit the tiny hamlet of Meeker after 52 miles and then I-70 at Rifle, about 90 miles from here.

Trump says that local cities and counties will be in charge of the funding that he promised. If so, that's hundreds of miles of highway to fund by local tiny small towns, such as this one. It may make sense in the big city, but I wonder how it will work in rural areas.

Most of the traffic through town isn't locals; it's city to city traffic and goods. If you want to ship goods from Denver to Salt Lake City, for example, you are going to pass through a lot of rural territory, no matter which route you take. Rural communities can't be expected to maintain those long stretches of highway.

If so, can all the local communities set toll booths on all the highways to charge out of towners?

But if we bail and let the cards fall as they may, it's likely to descent into anarchy...or is it?

Almost all of the weapons in the Middle East come from Russia, the United States, and a few countries in Europe. It was the mostly the US that funded the roots of these terrorists groups in the first place. That's a different topic though.