President Trump

[oldno7]

...:roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol ::roflol:

[oldno7]

,,,

[twotimer]

America likes winners and this massacre is going to continue until Democrats start listening to Joe Sixpack in middle America.

They won't...they live in a freaky collective world. Just look at that pic that Oldno put up of those CNN pundits. They're united in their misery.

This whole circus they've created reminds me of Edward Norton in Fight Club...just beating the shit out of themselves.

It was a bit amusing right after the election, then it became a bit annoying. Now I just want them the keep the Tyler Durden thing going...and keep losing as a result.

[Sombeech]

Who the hell is Ossoff? I hear that he / she lost and Dems are devastated but I'm not even interested enough to Google who actually won, and what position it was for. I think it's just more entertaining to see people upset on a sure deal

[rockgremlin]

Who the hell is Ossoff? I hear that he / she lost and Dems are devastated but I'm not even interested enough to Google who actually won, and what position it was for. I think it's just more entertaining to see people upset on a sure deal

Well, Ossoff is a documentary filmmaker so you can bet that there's going to be an upcoming documentary at next year's Sundance film festival outlining how he lost to Handel via scandal and Russian corruption. :roll:

[Iceaxe]

Karen Handel was also the first woman ever elected to represent Georgia, that means another glass ceiling shattered. I'm curious to see how the left tries to spin that one into racism or inequality.

[hank moon]

The Obama administration’s weakness and inaction led Putin rightly to believe that he could push America around with impunity. Clinton’s corruption and Democratic incompetence created a soft and inviting target. Trump’s defiance, defensiveness, and deceptions stoked fear and paranoia. At every turn in the story, Russia succeeded because we failed, and true heroes were hard to find.

Now more than ever, we need honesty, firmness, and stable leadership from Washington, and all we’re getting is more political decay. Trump reportedly toys with firing special counsel Robert Mueller, Democrats dream of impeachment, and Twitter is awash in conspiracy theories. If Putin wanted to sow chaos, he got his wish. But he isn’t a diabolical genius, and his intelligence operatives aren’t supermen. American incompetence is his greatest asset.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448931/vladimir-putin-russian-election-interference-american-incompetence-weakness-helped-succeed

[twotimer]

Oh, it's not that bad. We're seeing the Great American Power Struggle in knock down real time.They're a bunch of clowns..very powerful, but clowns nonetheless. The media and hollyweird against anyone who's not one of them.

I'm just glad that it's not mob bosses or the military isn't clamping down or there aren't full on coups. I'll admit it would be nice if Trump could bitch slap these freaks into line, but they're dedicated to riding it out to the bitter end and hoping for a miracle. If they work with him, and he succeeds, they won't even have a chance to regain power. They're gonna fight, fight fight. They're always pissed off.

Putin is a pissant. The Chinese are the ones we've really got to stare down. I think Trump has the Russians pretty squared away and he certainly put China on notice...so that's a good start. Without blowin' stuff up, so far.

God knows what Hillary would be doing about these things?

[Iceaxe]

Anyone that thought draining the swamp would be quick and easy just hasn't been paying attention.

[emoji631]

[oldno7]

...

[twotimer]

...That's friggin' funny, man.

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/8d254fc501054cc4623af9e4cc3eeebc.jpg

[Rob L]

The first picture should read "USA 1776-2001 :sleeping:"

and the second "USA 2001 onwards :2guns:"







:roll:

[twotimer]

:roll:Yeah, well you guys take those hits. We don't.

[rockgremlin]

The first picture should read "USA 1776-2001 :sleeping:"

and the second "USA 2001 onwards :2guns:"







:roll:

Am confused. What happened in 2001?

[Brian in SLC]

Am confused. What happened in 2001?

We invaded Afghanistan.

[oldno7]

I thought maybe 1783 would be of interest to the British...:nod:

[Iceaxe]

I thought maybe 1783 would be of interest to the British...:nod:
World's great military power got their ass kicked by a bunch of farmers... ***snicker - snicker***

[Brian in SLC]

World's great military power got their ass kicked by a bunch of farmers... ***snicker - snicker***

Sorry, I gotta get in on a little of this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0

[Sombeech]

ha ha, sorry Rob. We need you to stay on Bogley, you're our ambassador from across the pond

[twotimer]

Am confused. What happened in 2001?Dude, you've got to be kidding. 9/11 happened...then we started kicking ass. I'll admit it has been quite sloppy at times.

[oldno7]

...

[Rob L]

..<snip> 9/11 happened...then we started kicking ass.

For many decades before that, you, the Americans, had been funding it, funding for example the IRA who killed friends of mine here in England with terrorist bombs. Funding Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

So, Twotimer, it took a big 9-11 wake-up call for you to personally realise that terrorism was happening all around the world? Shame on you for waking up so late to American history.

I'm glad that in general the posters on this site are more worldly-wise and sensible to the greater affairs going on around us all, but you, "twotimer"; your post is childish and naive.

[Iceaxe]

On July 4th we are going to celebrate the 1776 edition of Brexit ;-)

[emoji631]

[twotimer]

For many decades before that, you, the Americans, had been funding it, funding for example the IRA who killed friends of mine here in England with terrorist bombs. Funding Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Yeah, well...always gotta be pissin' somebody off.

I don't know much about the IRA, but if there is some dark history regarding the CIA or our government paying those guys, I'd like to see it. By all means enlighten me.

Sure we funded (and ENGLAND funded) all kinds of sketchy freaks for decades...we were fighting for world domination against the Soviet Union. You, our little brother, were right there alongside us with all the shenanigans. Where's you head with this stuff?

[Rob L]

On July 4th we are going to celebrate the 1776 edition of Brexit ;-)

[emoji631]

And we were glad to get rid of you Mercans :cool2: like we are with those darn Yuropeens :mrgreen:

Bluddy furriners, the lot of you!

[uintafly]

Trump reminds us all this week that money and power can't buy class.

[Rob L]

...<snip> we were fighting for world domination against the Soviet Union. You, our little brother, were right there alongside us with all the shenanigans. Where's you head with this stuff?,<snip>

What? In the late 19th Century against the Soviet Union? The Soviet Union didn't exist back then when the IRA was being financially supported by the USA Irish immigrants.

Please get some history lessons before you quote history to me. By the way, I and my countrymen are not your little brother :fitz: lest you call me bro'.
:wink:

[Iceaxe]

Trump reminds us all this week that money and power can't buy class.
Who needs class when you are married to a hot young stripper wife, have more money then God and rule the most powerful nation on the planet?

[twotimer]

What? In the late 19th Century against the Soviet Union? The Soviet Union didn't exist back then when the IRA was being financially supported by the USA Irish immigrants.

Please get some history lessons before you quote history to me. By the way, I and my countrymen are not your little brother :fitz: lest you call me bro'.
:wink:Irish immigrants, the IRA and the 19th century is goin' way back there, but sure, I'll give it to ya.

I sincerely apologize for what I said that offended you.

[Glenn]

Who needs class when you are married to a hot young stripper wife, have more money then God and rule the most powerful nation on the planet?

Thanks for that insight into the minds of the Trumpian voter. The thing is, all three of those clauses are debatable. The first is entirely subjective, so let's call it a wash. The second hasn't been proven until we see some tax returns. The third one is the only one arguably true, at least by economic and military measures.

[Iceaxe]

The first is debatable/subjective only if you are gay, and yes, I mean in the homosexual kind of way.

The second, so you are saying you want to see God's 1040?

The third is without question true any way you care to measure.

/End Debate

[twotimer]

His old lady is a super smokin' hot piece of ass. And I'm sure a very polite and kind person, too.

Trump hasn't done a single thing that I find objectionable. In fact, he's one of the best things to happen to this country in my lifetime. I'm not saying this as some hero worship nonsense, but his being able to expose the entrenched elitism and snobbery is what, I think, is exactly what our country needed.

He's the only one that could have kicked that door wide open. I'd love to shake the guy's hand.

And for you dudes that hate Trump...I don't blame ya. Now you know how it felt to dislike Obama. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[oldno7]

,.,

[qedcook]

...

That Sasquatch image is hilarious!

[nelsonccc]

Trump reminds us all this week that money and power can't buy class.
Are you using some of our previous presidents or candidates as the benchmark? I think it was way worse to shove a cigar up someones meat pocket, or race bait for 8 years, or any of the other atrocities committed by our previous presidents?

Trump is likely the single best thing to happen to the American people in our lifetimes. I can only hope that 8 years of his presidency will correct the path this great nation has been on for the previous 8 years.

[Iceaxe]

JFK bent a 19 year old virgin intern over his desk and popped her cherry....

Or how about the time he was banging a female aid after smoking dupe in the first ladies bedroom, while the first lady sat outside the bedroom door and cried.

....Now that's class....

Hahaha.... how soon the left forgets the faults of their greatest hero.

[uintafly]

You guys crack me up. As if previous misbehaving presidents somehow excuses his actions. Hell, I don't even let my 5 year old use that excuse anymore. Politics aside, the dude's a think skinned bully who can't handle criticism. I've personally never found the bully personality all to appealing, but for 35% or so of the county, they seem to eat it up.

As for "the best thing to happen in our lifetime" line, I always thought it was a tie between free internet porn and reverse camber skis, but I guess it comes down to priorities.

[rockgremlin]

JFK bent a 19 year old virgin intern over his desk and popped her cherry....

Or how about the time he was banging a female aid after smoking dupe in the first ladies bedroom, while the first lady sat outside the bedroom door and cried.

....Now that's class....

Hahaha.... how soon the left forgets the faults of their greatest hero.


Don't forget the decade long tryst President Harding had with a sexy young mistress: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/magazine/letters-warren-g-harding.html

[rockgremlin]

Surprised LBJ hasn't been brought up yet. Lyndon B Johnson's behavior was extraordinarily lewd and offensive. In addition to two long term affairs (Madeline Brown and Alice Glass), LBJ would brag that "He's had more women on accident than [JFK] has had on purpose."

Aside from his sexual prowess on the first lady's dime, LBJ would frequently unleash his wiener in public, giving "The Full Monty" to whoever happened to be within view. This happened so often that he affectionately nick-named his unit "jumbo" and would whip it out whenever he felt compelled to either brag or assert genital dominance over whomever may have been present -- sometimes in the presence of other world leaders.

[Iceaxe]

You guys crack me up. As if previous misbehaving presidents somehow excuses his actions.

Not excusing Trumps poor behavior, just pointing out he doesn't really score very high when it comes to ranking commanders in chief acting badly.

Personally I prefer leaders that lead from the front and use every tool in their toolbox to improve my life. I really don't give a shit if it's not fair to Germany or China.

YMMV

[oldno7]

,,,

[oldno7]

.,.,

[Scott P]

I don't know much about the IRA, but if there is some dark history regarding the CIA or our government paying those guys, I'd like to see it. By all means enlighten me.

It was NORAID rather than the CIA. Although some US politicians did support it, it was a minority.

Most of the US support for terrorism in the 20th century was in the Middle East, Afghanistan, Central America, and South America.

There were only a few supporting the IRA.

[twotimer]

Thanks Scott. I just read up on all that.

I also recently read that nearly a dozen international banks, including BofA and Wells Fargo are doing business with front companies that launder cash for North Korea. They might have to cut that out soon.

Weapons? Bombs? Fear? I suppose none of that matters when cash is king.

[uintafly]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44960611&nid=157&title=report-trump-jr-was-promised-damaging-info-about-clinton

What is this, the 6th or 7th member of the trump team that had direct contact with the Russians and lied about it?

Maybe they were all just meeting about the joint U.S./Russia online security task force.

[rockgremlin]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44960611&nid=157&title=report-trump-jr-was-promised-damaging-info-about-clinton

What is this, the 6th or 7th member of the trump team that had direct contact with the Russians and lied about it?

Maybe they were all just meeting about the joint U.S./Russia online security task force.


That meeting was not illegal, and yielded nothing.

Dead end. Nothing to see here. Move along...

[uintafly]

That meeting was not illegal, and yielded nothing.

Dead end. Nothing to see here. Move along...

I agree with the 1st part since they were all 3 private citizens at the time. But isn't it just a little disturbing how many people involved with trump swear they never met with the Russians when in fact they did?

March: No meetings ever happened
Saturday: Well there was the 1 meeting but it was about adoption
Sunday: Well she did offer dirt on Hillary but it was vague and nonsensical. And daddy didn't know I was there

[Iceaxe]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44960611&nid=157&title=report-trump-jr-was-promised-damaging-info-about-clinton

What is this, the 6th or 7th member of the trump team that had direct contact with the Russians and lied about it?

Maybe they were all just meeting about the joint U.S./Russia online security task force.Another big nothing burger.... hell, even most the fake news is calling this a nothing burger.

[uintafly]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-releases-alleged-email-chain-regarding-russian-meeting.html

But I thought the meeting was about Russian adoption???

This is an interesting excerpt from the emails: "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump -- helped along by Aras and Emin."

This nothing burger is starting get a little flavor. :ne_nau:

[rockgremlin]

The last time I saw this level of desperation to pin controversy on a president was when conservatives spent eight fruitless years trying to prove Obama wasn't an American citizen. That went nowhere. And so will these nonsensical Russian conspiracy theories.

But hey, at least Colbert will have an endless supply of material while Trump is in office, so there's that...

[Iceaxe]

This nothing burger is starting get a little flavor. :ne_nau:

The really funny part is there is nothing illegal about collusion. So even if the Russian unicorn turns out to be real it is not illegal, politically it would be bad for the Trump administered, but not illegal. And by polically bad I mean kind of like discovering the president was sticking cigars up an interns snatch in the oval office. It might not play well with the public, but it's not illegal.

[emoji631]

[Iceaxe]

http://image.ibb.co/di9r2v/IMG_5204.gif

[rockgremlin]

http://image.ibb.co/di9r2v/IMG_5204.gif


LOL just grab-em-by-the-meow-meow.

where/what is this event by the way? It's like Pornhub meets WWE. :lol8:

Is that a DirecTV logo on the turnbuckles?

[twotimer]

OMG...can you imagine the reaction if Trump would've posted that up instead? Haha!

I certainly understand how that would be horribly offensive to some people, but I swear I'd vote for him to be King. That would be the absolute ballsyest thing I've ever seen a human being do.

If only people would lighten up a bit.

[Iceaxe]

Word!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170712/59857f08f373edf83f93f6acf310dbb9.jpg

[Sombeech]

Obama told Russia he would be able to make some deals with them after the 2nd term election, it was caught on hot mic and video, it's proof of Obama colluding with Russia.

But Russia wants Trump to win and THAT'S the crime.

[hank moon]

Even the most innocent explanations for Donald Trump Jr.’s actions are naïve and dangerous.


Judging from conversations online and in person, the emerging Trump-friendly defense of Donald Trump Jr.’s decision to respond enthusiastically to an invitation to meet a “Russian government attorney” to receive “official documents and information” as part of the Russian government’s “support for Mr. Trump” is two-fold. First, of course you meet with someone who’s proposing to help you win your political race. And second, the meeting itself was allegedly unimportant. The Russian attorney didn’t deliver the goods. What’s the big deal?


Let’s leave aside the obvious fact that no living Republican would be making those arguments if equivalent news emerged about a Democratic president’s team and address the core of the argument. Yes, it is a “big deal” when senior representatives of an American presidential campaign meet with a purported representative of a hostile foreign power for the purpose of cooperating in that foreign power’s effort to influence an American presidential campaign. It’s an even bigger deal when news of that meeting emerges after an avalanche of denials and evasions.


As an initial matter, it’s amazing that anyone on the right or left is taking any talking points from the Trump administration at face value. After months of deception and misdirection, why should anyone believe the Trump administration’s account of the meeting? Why should anyone believe that this is the last shoe to drop or the only shoe to drop demonstrating an effort to collude with Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election? And yet conservatives are rallying across the Internet, ignoring all previous false statements, and essentially saying, “Now we know the truth, and the truth is that nothing happened.” This isn’t analysis; it’s wishful thinking.


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449406/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-campaign-explanation-naive-dangerous

[hank moon]

Trust Nothing, Defend Nothing

by JONAH GOLDBERG July 11, 2017

I don’t write or even tweet about the Russia investigation much. I think the most I’ve written is that I think it probably won’t pan out and if it does, it’ll be Paul Manafort or Roger Stone or some other expendable type who’ll end up getting to know the underside of a bus. And that’s about it.

I get asked why I don’t write about it more all the time.

One reason is I’m not a legal beagle like our own inestimable Andy McCarthy. I don’t write about how criminal investigations work, nor am I particularly well-versed on the finer details of special-counsel laws.

Another reason is I’ve found the whole feeding frenzy unappealing. The Democrats are clearly in full partisan mode, framing every inconvenient, benign, or even potentially exculpatory detail as a smoking gun. The whole “hacked the election” formulation, used both by the Democrats and by allegedly objective reporters, is a misleading bit of hyperbole. Is “meddled with” or “interfered in” too big a concession to reality?

Meanwhile, there’s no shortage of hyperbole among those most eager to defend Trump on the Russia story. I’ve lost count of how many adjectives Sean Hannity uses to describe the media these days. I think it’s the “Alt-Left, Globalist Mainstream, Deep State, Destroy Trump, Get a Two-Liter Bottle of Pepsi When You Order a MAGA Pizza Media” now. More seriously, the rush to say there’s nothing to the collusion story is a mirror of the rush to insist the story is everything. There’s just not much room to say, “Maybe there’s something here. Let’s wait and see.”


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/449366/donald-trump-jr-russia-why-not-just-wait-and-see

[Iceaxe]

WTF, I fail to see why this is a big deal. The USA is always meddling in other countries elections and politics. Hell, the USA has actually overthrown numerous governments we disagree with.

[twotimer]

Having failed to trip up Trump, they've gone after an easier target. They gang rushed the son and try to make out like they're manhandling him...but I don't see it that way. Jr. just isn't the kind of guy that would throw up the middle finger like the old man, that's not the way he rolls.

The only mistake he made was he should have sent an underling to meet with that chick. That's politics. I'd bet he's got that figured out now.

[hank moon]

87329

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170714/fc3435dc222365388b3b9c6e51f0d998.jpg

[Scott P]

Word!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170712/59857f08f373edf83f93f6acf310dbb9.jpg

Japan has way more big government policies than the US. By Japanese standards, Bernie Sanders would be an ultra-conservative.

[Iceaxe]

Japan has way more big government policies than the US. By Japanese standards, Bernie Sanders would be an ultra-conservative.We were not talking US vs Japan, we are talking Detroit vs Japan. Any way you slice it Detroit is a govermental clusterf**k.

[Scott P]

We were not talking US vs Japan, we are talking Detroit vs Japan.

Have you been to Japan? Even Detroit is more conservative than Japan, so the meme is not a good example.



Any way you slice it Detroit is a govermental clusterf**k.

It's an everything clusterf**k due to greed (including in the government). The US share of the world auto-market has declined due to shoddy workmanship and greedy unions. The US is still #2 in auto production, but the market share has certainly declined. Add that to corrupt politicians and CEO's, plus race riots, poor planning, and Detroit is what you get.

I agree with you that Detroit is the armpit of the US.

I know I don't buy products from there.

[Rob L]

We were not talking US vs Japan, we are talking Detroit vs Japan. Any way you slice it Detroit is a govermental clusterf**k.

And who makes the cars now, eh?

[Iceaxe]

The only car currently built in the Detroit zip code is the Dodge Viper, and 2017 is the last year for the Dodge Viper as it has been discontinued.

[Scott P]

The only car currently built in the Detroit zip code is the Dodge Viper, and 2017 is the last year for the Dodge Viper as it has been discontinued.

Source?

Detroit has many zip codes.

Chrysler's Jefferson North Plant (Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango) is in Detroit proper. GM's Detroit-Hamtramck (Cadillac, Buik, Chevy) , plant is in Detroit proper, or at least straddling the border.

When people refer to Kennicott Copper Mine, it has Salt Lake connotations even if it isn't in downtown SLC.

The auto factories in Dearborn, Warren, Wayne, Orion, and Flint are all in the Detroit CSA.

[Iceaxe]

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/cnn-fudd_large.jpg

[Brian in SLC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLpCOHZiX4&amp;t=418s

I gotta see that movie again...so prophetic its frightening...

[accadacca]

Sean Spicer resigns as White House press secretary

[Brian in SLC]

Can a president pardon himself?

[Iceaxe]

Can a president pardon himself?

Just curious.... what crime would he be pardoning himself from?

I'll admit Trump has a bad habit of stepping on his own dick, but I've seen no actual crimes despite what #fakenews would like you to believe.

And FWIW, many scholars believe a President has the power to pardon himself. As the laws are currently written the president has the power to grant pardons, and there is nothing in the law excluding the president from granting himself a pardon.

If a President did grant himself a pardon it would mostly like be tied up in courts for many years or at least until no one gave a crap anymore.

[double moo]

Just curious.... what crime would he be pardoning himself from?

I'll admit Trump has a bad habit of stepping on his own dick, but I've seen no actual crimes despite what #fakenews would like you to believe.

And FWIW, many scholars believe a President has the power to pardon himself. As the laws are currently written the president has the power to grant pardons, and there is nothing in the law excluding the president from granting himself a pardon.

If a President did grant himself a pardon it would mostly like be tied up in courts for many years or at least until no one gave a crap anymore.

If this is the case, why didn't Nixon pardon himself? Instead he had Ford do it after he resigned.

[Sombeech]

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/cnn-fudd_large.jpg

:haha:

THANK YOU CNN FOR MAKING A BIG DEAL OF THIS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvXmzWFlzM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyuHajCuSlA

[Iceaxe]

If this is the case, why didn't Nixon pardon himself? Instead he had Ford do it after he resigned.If a President did actually pardon himself if would probably send the country spinning into chaos.

The question was is it legal for a President to pardon himself, not if it was a wise choice. Ford pardoning Nixon was a great solution to a messy problem. The one thing we really can't have in this country is defeated political figures being tossed into prison, that is for 3rd world shit holes.

This is also why you will never see Hillary in prison, even if others have serverd time for the same crimes (mishandling of classified information).

[Scott P]

From the New Yorker:

:haha:.

.https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/023af682-174d-3c3b-927b-f010debe1a99/ss_girl-scouts-obtain.html


WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report (http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/andy-borowitz))—In an extraordinary rebuke of the President of the United States, the Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. have obtained a restraining order against Donald J. Trump.

The order, which the Girls Scouts were granted on Monday night, prevents Trump from coming within three hundred feet of any gathering of the Scouts’ organization.


Carol Foyler, a Girl Scouts spokesperson, said that while the G.S.U.S.A. sought the restraining order “out of an abundance of caution,” the girls themselves were “in no way, shape or form” afraid of President Trump.


“They’re prepared to deal with bobcats and bears,” she said. “They can handle a malignant narcissist.”


Trump wasted little time responding to the Girl Scouts’ action, lashing out at the organization in a blistering early-morning tweet storm.

“Failing Girl Scouts bad (or sick) guys,” Trump wrote. “Mints, cookies terrible. Sad!”

[Iceaxe]

***YAWN***

exactly what the US population needs.... more #fakenews.

[Scott P]

***YAWN***

exactly what the US population needs.... more #fakenews.

It's satirical. I saw at least some humor in it, especially the tweet.

Would you have preferred a serious post or can only pro-Trumpers post jokes or satire?

[Scott P]

OK, here is a serious one. I wonder what the score would be for CNN on a Truth o Meter? I'm not saying that CNN is always reliable, but I wonder how they would compare to Trump?

Over the years Politifact has been very non-partisan and fair in calling out all political parties, politicians, and political figures.

Here is Trump's latest score:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

87411

Call it fake if you want, but Politifact has been more than fair in calling out all politicians.

Trump scores lower than any politician I know of, regardless of political party with 17% of True and Mostly True statements.

So while "fake news" should be called out if indeed fake, so should statements by Trump and others.

[Iceaxe]

CNN = #fakenews

Why are you comparing CNN to Trump? That is not their competition.

I doubt CNN will ever recover from this. They now score lower than Nick at Night in the cable ratings war, which is sad because at one time they were the gold standard for cable news. Fox is now the top rated cable news network and is who you should be comparing CNN #fakenews with.

Trump should be compared to other presidents, or have you already forgotten "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". Better to compare apple's to apple's.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170726/aff6e17e14bab14a5126e480f461e66d.jpg

[Scott P]

CNN = #fakenews

Why are you comparing CNN to Trump? That is not their competition.

I doubt CNN will ever recover from this. They now score lower than Nick at Night in the cable ratings war, which is sad because at one time they were the gold standard for cable news. Fox is now the top rated cable news network and is who you should be comparing CNN #fakenews with.

Trump should be compared to other presidents, or have you already forgotten "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". Better to compare apple's to apple's.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170726/aff6e17e14bab14a5126e480f461e66d.jpg

It is you guys who keep bringing up the CNN/Trump thing, not me.

I agree that Trump should be compared to other presidents. I will post the comparison later. I can't really do it on the phone.

To save you the suspense, Obama scored a 49% on the Truth O Meter for true and mostly true statements, which means that 51% of his statements were either half truths or falsehoods. That's really not good in my book.

To me is pretty sad that 49% actually looks good compared to the next president.

Everyone lies at times, but telling the truth only 17% of the time doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

[Iceaxe]

I said ***yawn*** more #fakenews, I never mentioned Trump anywhere in the same post. And I've never compared Trump to any news organization, I only compare him to other politicians.

No need to post a comparison as all politicians lie, some more than others. Some of those lies actually cost American lives (see Benghazi).

[Scott P]

I said ***yawn*** more #fakenews, I never mentioned Trump anywhere in the same post.

https://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/cnn-fudd_large.jpg

[Scott P]

No need to post a comparison as all politicians lie, some more than others. Some of those lies actually cost American lives (see Benghazi).

Or Iraq, pollution, etc., all of which killed/kill thousands of times more then Benghazi.

Yes, all politicians lie (everyone does from time to time), but should it be acceptable to us? Why shouldn't politicians (all of them, not just Trump or one political party) be held to a standard of telling the truth? They should be called out.

So should news agencies.

[Iceaxe]

News agencies should report the news accurately and without bias. CNN in nolonger a news agency, they are now an advocate, that is a huge difference.

As for the cartoon, Trump has destroyed CNN by pointing out they are advocates and not news. That cartoon has nothing to do with comparing the two.

[hank moon]

News agencies should report the news accurately and without bias.

Not possible. Part of the reason (a big part) is described here:

https://wwnorton.com/college/history/america-essential-learning/docs/WLippmann-Public_Opinion-1922.pdf

[Scott P]

News agencies should report the news accurately and without bias.

I do not disagree.

[Scott P]

Not possible. Part of the reason (a big part) is described here:

https://wwnorton.com/college/history/america-essential-learning/docs/WLippmann-Public_Opinion-1922.pdf

They should at least try to be unbiased and fair.

[hank moon]

They should at least try to be unbiased and fair.

On an individual level, plenty of people working in the media industry do their best to be unbiased and fair. Takes effort, education, genuine curiosity, a trained mind, etc. Lots of good blogs and info sources out there on a small scale. But, human nature being what it is, people are overwhelmingly biased and unfair. On on industrial scale it's impossible to avoid the strong inherent bias in humanity, magnified by money, culture, etc.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170727/cb216a9a90e96b889c7bfd938898fc7e.png

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170727/a0ea1383af5bed37fea6732815394788.png

[uintafly]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unload-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon/amp

He hires the best people.

[Iceaxe]

Never a dull day...

The big problem as I see it is Trump was saddled with members of the RNC from the beginning, which really hasn't worked out well as Trump isn't really a Republican (he's not a Democrat either).

On the plus side business and the stock market love Trump as stocks hit another all time high. The DJIA closed at 22,796. So long as business is happy with Trump the guy is golden.

[uintafly]

I think we need Bannon to prove whether he can or not.

[accadacca]

I guess some of the scouters got offended...

FROM THE CHIEF: OUR PERSPECTIVE ON THE PRESIDENTIAL VISIT

http://scoutingwire.org/chief-perspective-presidential-visit/

[Iceaxe]

Trump could cure cancer tomorrow and many would be offended and accuse him of putting hospitals out of business.

[Iceaxe]

Never a dull moment... Reince Pribus is out, General John Kelly is in as chief of staff.

And in other news.... $4 trillion has been created in American wealth since Trump took office. That is Trillion with a capital T.

[oldno7]

...

[oldno7]

,,,,

[oldno7]

,.,.

[oldno7]

///

[hank moon]

Trump is the political version of a pickup artist, and Republicans — and America — went to bed with him convinced that he was something other than what he is. Trump inherited his fortune but describes himself as though he were a self-made man.

We did not elect Donald Trump; we elected the character he plays on television.

He has had a middling career in real estate and a poor one as a hotelier and casino operator but convinced people he is a titan of industry. He has never managed a large, complex corporate enterprise, but he did play an executive on a reality show. He presents himself as a confident ladies’ man but is so insecure that he invented an imaginary friend to lie to the New York press about his love life and is now married to a woman who is open and blasé about the fact that she married him for his money. He fixates on certain words (“negotiator”) and certain classes of words (mainly adjectives and adverbs, “bigly,” “major,” “world-class,” “top,” and superlatives), but he isn’t much of a negotiator, manager, or leader. He cannot negotiate a health-care deal among members of a party desperate for one, can’t manage his own factionalized and leak-ridden White House, and cannot lead a political movement that aspires to anything greater than the service of his own pathetic vanity.


He wants to be John Wayne, but what he is is “Woody Allen without the humor.”


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449988/donald-trump-cant-close-deal-failing-salesman

[Iceaxe]

Before you post stupid shit like the above please realize since Trump was elected the net worth of everyone in America has increase by 20%. That means if you were worth $1 million at the end of October you are now worth $1.2 million. That is an amazing increase any way you slice it. Of course if you had little or no net worth before the election you still have little or no networth. It's just simple math as 0 × 1.2 = 0. So it's easy to see why those living on the government tit don't appreciate the awesomeness that is Trump.

The net worth of America as a whole has increased $4 Trillion. All I can say is please God give me 7.5 more years of the shitty tv charactor Trump.

[rockgremlin]

^^^ So I guess it's awesome if you're wealthy. If you're not....well....sucks for you.

[Iceaxe]

^^^ So I guess it's awesome if you're wealthy. If you're not....well....sucks for you.If by wealthy you mean the middle class....

It's awesomeness if you're living responsibly, working toward the American dream, investing in your future, saving for college, saving for retirement, own a home or are working toward home ownership.

It sucks if you live off the government tit, live irresponsibly, max out your credit cards, visit payday lender's, don't understand how credit or interest actually work.

It just depends on which path you are on.

[emoji631]

[uintafly]

Before you post stupid shit like the above please realize since Trump was elected the net worth of everyone in America has increase by 20%. That means if you were worth $1 million at the end of October you are now worth $1.2 million. That is an amazing increase any way you slice it. Of course if you had little or no net worth before the election you still have little or no networth. It's just simple math as 0 × 1.2 = 0. So it's easy to see why those living on the government tit don't appreciate the awesomeness that is Trump.

The net worth of America as a whole has increased $4 Trillion. All I can say is please God give me 7.5 more years of the shitty tv charactor Trump.

Thank Obama for this sweet economy! :2thumbs:

PS: The average Trump supporter appreciates the explanation of what 20% means. :roflol::roflol:

In all seriousness, I hope the economy keeps going in this direction. It has been a very nice 8 months for me.

[Iceaxe]

Actually the math was included for those suckling from the American tit as they are obviously not smart enough to understand how the economy works and if you invest zero in yourself you will always end up with zero.

[hank moon]

<snip> So it's easy to see why those living on the government tit don't appreciate the awesomeness that is Trump.


Actually the math was included for those suckling from the American tit as they are obvious not smart enough to understand how the economy works and if you invest zero in yourself you will always end up with zero.

So...Trump's tit isn't part of "the government"?

shlurp

[Iceaxe]

Whatever you want to call it, I'm thrilled with what Trump is doing. If he keeps it up much longer I'll have to get a bigger wheelbarrow to haul any my newly minted money to the bank, or at the very least I'll have to make two trips.

[Iceaxe]

PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?

[devo_stevo]

PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?I'm getting pretty sick of all of the work that keeps knocking down my door around here. I've had to turn a bunch of jobs away because I just can't get it all done. It's crazy right now.

That's sarcasm btw. Things are great, but I'd like to be home more with my family. Maybe a day off. I'm going to go on vacation in a week from now and I had to buy a new laptop so that I can work in the hotel room at night. Oh well. Gots to pay the bills.

[rockgremlin]

You know, I think this really speaks to the resiliency of the American stock market. Because I'm not convinced that the market is doing so well just because The Donald is commander in chief.

I mean, I could be wrong, but somebody please tell me how Trump is directly responsible for the market doing so well? Is that attributed to the Russians as well?

[Iceaxe]

I mean, I could be wrong, but somebody please tell me how Trump is directly responsible for the market doing so well? Is that attributed to the Russians as well?

The one place that Trump has been tremendously successful and that most of the mainstream media refuses to report is in removing rules and regulations that stifle business. Last time I check Trump had pulled or suspended over 860 regulations. But why report on that when you have a Russian unicorn to chase.

And part of the rise in stocks is nothing more than emotions and the business world believing the president is in their corner.

All of this is pretty much the exact opposite of Obama and the reason Obama could never really get the economy rolling and why Obama had the worst economic growth of any president in history (he never had even one quartet with 3% growth).

Anyhoo, I hope that answers at least some of your question.

[Iceaxe]

And just for the record, our President is NOT the problem.

Obama was not the problem as he always did his job. Trump is not the problem as he is doing his job.

The Supreme Court is not the problem as they are doing their job.

One of these days American's are going to realize it's our legislative branch of government that is not doing their job. Our Senator's and Representatives become entrenched and beholding to special interests and not the American public. The only way to clean up this mess is to enact term limits.

:flag:

[Rob L]

I like Iceaxe's post above. In my very humble opinion, every democratic political system has its problems; no method of government is perfect, nor can it be. We have our political "issues" here in the UK (and indeed throughout Europe) as you have over on your side of the pond.

I actually don't like the so-called democratic "one man one vote" system (please excuse the sexism) but most of the alternatives are not so favourable. Many countries, like yours and mine have a duocracy.. whether we like it or not.

Rob

[hank moon]

One of these days American's are going to realize it's our legislative branch of government that is not doing their job. Our Senator's and Representatives become entrenched and beholding to special interests and not the American public. The only way to clean up this mess is to enact term limits.

We passed that realization decades ago. Now, it's on us to make change happen (i.e. Congress won't fix itself). That realization may take awhile as folks seem content w/blaming others.

[Brian in SLC]

And part of the rise in stocks is nothing more than emotions and the business world believing the president is in their corner.

All of this is pretty much the exact opposite of Obama and the reason Obama could never really get the economy rolling and why Obama had the worst economic growth of any president in history (he never had even one quartet with 3% growth).

You keep touting Trump and the stock market...Obama had a pretty darn good run with the Dow too.

Average economic growth since 1969 is only 3.1 percent...but, he inherited a negative growth from the previous two years, and, had positive growth his entire term.

Average household income is an indicator...and, it plummeted after the 2007 to 2009 down turn. And, under Obama, its came back to nearly the 2007 level.

Stocks? 200% growth under Obama. There's a cliff out there. Will the market tank under Trump? I wish I had a crystal ball...

US manufacturing boomed under Obama. Not blue collar jobs, though.

Home prices? Anyone else get their damn tax increase notice in the mail? I'm contesting mine. My property tax rose 25% since last year. Thanks...Obama? Or Trump? Anyhoo, it seems to be a sellers market again. Is this bubble gonna pop? If it does...it could under Trump. Any signs the admin is doing anything to prevent the pop? Oh, yeah, removing regulations. That'll help...(ha ha...not).

Price of a gallon of gas? Thanks Obama!

US dept up...deficit down...

Mixed bag for sure. But, the Obama team seemed to steer the boat pretty well, IMHO. Especially given where we were. Is the Trump crew heading us (and by us, I mean all of us) in a good direction? So far, the market seems to like it. Sustainable? We'll see.

I'm sure if we get in a bind, a Russian bank can loan us some cash...someone out there might have some experience with that...

[Iceaxe]

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again since you obviously were not paying attention.... OBAMA INHERITED A GIANT TURD SANDWICH WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.

[rockgremlin]

Anyhoo, it seems to be a sellers market again. Is this bubble gonna pop? If it does...it could under Trump. Any signs the admin is doing anything to prevent the pop? Oh, yeah, removing regulations. That'll help...(ha ha...not).


I hope it crashes harder than the Great Crash of '08. The real estate market in Utah (and specifically Salt Lake valley) is off the chain. Like batshit krazy. Been looking for houses along the Wasatch front and you can't find anything decent for under $300K. Crappy 1600 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath homes are selling for $400K+ It's unbelievable. I've talked to numerous people who are selling their homes in SLC -- not because they need to but just because they can get 100K+ for their house and then move somewhere cheap having netted six figures from the sale of their overpriced house. Greed is now driving the market -- at least along the Wasatch front.

[devo_stevo]

I hope it crashes harder than the Great Crash of '08. The real estate market in Utah (and specifically Salt Lake valley) is off the chain. Like batshit krazy. Been looking for houses along the Wasatch front and you can't find anything decent for under $300K. Crappy 1600 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath homes are selling for $400K+ It's unbelievable. I've talked to numerous people who are selling their homes in SLC -- not because they need to but just because they can get 100K+ for their house and then move somewhere cheap having netted six figures from the sale of their overpriced house. Greed is now driving the market -- at least along the Wasatch front.I don't really want to see the market crash like that again, but I think that it's inevitable. For the very reason that you are sighting here. Home prices are crazy right now. I've wanted to move for a while now, but I can't bring myself to do it. I could sell my house and make good money off of it right now, but then I'd have to turn around and pay too much for something else.

House prices are higher now than they were in 2007-2008 just before it all fell apart. We are a species with a VERY short attention span and an even shorter memory. When they say that if we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doom to repeat them, they mean it. And it apparently only takes about 10 years for us to lose our minds.

[Iceaxe]

The house shortage is because a large portion of the home builders went out of business in the last crash. There will be a new wave of home builders along shortly with the money to be made, and with more homes the prices will stabilize. I also expect interest to rise which will also have the same effect. YMMV

[devo_stevo]

I agree that a lot of them went under in the last crash, and there will be more coming along soon enough. That should help. The problem I'm seeing is that the banks seem to be up to their old tricks again. Loaning people more money than they can really afford to pay back. Also, the population in general seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that if they take on a loan for the amount that the bank will give them, they will go broke. Fast.

So until the home shortage is fixed and the interest rates climb to help out with the prices we're seeing now, more and more people are buying houses they can't afford and banks are happy to help them out with that. And those people will really be in a bad place when the market corrects itself.

[Iceaxe]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupid

[devo_stevo]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupidAgreed. 1000%. It's a mess. We are a victim of our own bad choices. That's why I said the banks are doing the wrong thing, but the people buying those houses they can't afford are the ones truly at fault here. Nobody puts a gun to their heads to sign on that dotted line. They do it to themselves.

[uintafly]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupid

Careful now. Some of us are making a fine living as money lenders. Bankers are people too you know.

Don't you run a business that is booming, Ice? Send me a message when you are ready to get into a nice new building. I'll hook you up with a killer rate. We'll even get you into an SBA loan so you too can suck at the government tit. :2thumbs:

And if you think Wasatch home prices are crazy, you should check out Tooele County prices. New homes with 1,800 finished sq ft. going for $400,000+. Now that is nuts. But I don't really think we will see a major slow down in the next 24 months at least. There are still too many people moving to Utah and not enough supply, and all of the tech development going on in north Utah County is going to keep em coming. The SL multifamily market still has vacancies under 3% even with all of the new apartments that have opened recently.

[Iceaxe]

Careful now. Some of us are making a fine living as money lenders. Bankers are people too you know.

Don't you run a business that is booming, Ice? Send me a message when you are ready to get into a nice new building. I'll hook you up with a killer rate. We'll even get you into an SBA loan so you too can suck at the government tit. :2thumbs:

:roflol::roflol: :roflol:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I haven't borrowed money in over 40 years, which is when I began to understand the power of compound interest. If I can't pay cash or self finance a car, house, office building, construction project I look for something else that I can afford.

In the construction industry (I'm a structural engineer) if you make 10% on a project you are doing good, it's almost impossible to make more than that as someone will undercut your bid and be happy with the 10%. So if I'm only making 10% on a project why in the hell would I want to take half of that 10% profit and give it to a banker? That is absolutely crazy in my book.

YMMV

[uintafly]

:roflol::roflol: :roflol:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I haven't borrowed money in over 40 years, which is when I began to understand the power of compound interest. If I can't pay cash or self finance a car, house, office building, construction project I look for something else that I can afford.

In the construction industry (I'm a structural engineer) if you make 10% on a project you are doing good, it's almost impossible to make more than that as someone will undercut your bid and be happy with the 10%. So if I'm only making 10% on a project why in the hell would I want to take half of that 10% profit and give it to a banker? That is absolutely crazy in my book.

YMMV

Wait a minute. A guy that loves Trump as much as you do also is anti debt??? Trump is the king of debt.

In reality though, going pure debt free is a great way to go on the personal finance side if you can do it, but not usually on the business side in most industries. Let's say you have a spare $1MM sitting around and need a $1MM building. Sure you can pay cash for it and save 5% interest (4% after tax deduction), or you can finance it, pay the 4% and use that cash for other investments. You only need to do better than 4% to get ahead. Plus once you get into bigger deals it's just not plausible to have that much cash. How long would it take for people to save enough to buy a $5,000,000 hotel or apartment? Certainly there is smart debt and stupid debt, but I would be willing to wager that if you compared a list of the 100 wealthiest and indebted folks in Utah that 80 of them would be on the both lists. Money is just way too cheap right now to waste all of your cash.

[Iceaxe]

I understand you argument, I just prefer not to operate that way and it keeps me from getting into trouble. Take 2008 for instance, many companies were operating OPM (Other Peoples Money) and when the economy tanked they still had a large nut to cover but no positive cash flow... and in the end many went bankrupt or were forced to sell assets for 20 cents on the dollar. I'm happy to just sail along collecting my puny 10% every day, just like clockwork. It also greatly reduces the stress factor, which is worth something to me.

[Iceaxe]

Cha-ching.... 22,016.

Thank you Mr. Trump.

[Brian in SLC]

Cha-ching.... 20,016.

Thank you Mr. Trump.

Did that back in January (try to keep up...ha ha).

Despite "Mr. Trump."

[Iceaxe]

Actually it hit 20,000 on January 25th, also on Trumps watch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170803/2553fedd9ac85fb972ff25839e2133cb.jpg

[Scott P]

Obama was not the problem as he always did his job. Trump is not the problem as he is doing his job.

Well technically both of them were or are overstepping their boundaries, as did many presidents before them.

The way our country was set up, the Legislative Branch of Government is supposed to make the laws and the Executive Branch of Government is supposed to ensure that the people are following the laws. The president is supposed to be involved sign or veto laws, but he or she isn't supposed to be the one creating or proposing the laws. When was the last president that stayed within the intended boundaries of the Executive Branch? The current and several past presidents (including Obama) are actually part of the problem, or at least the part of the problem of our government not functioning properly.


Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

I mostly agree with this, but a large percentage of people go bankrupt because of medical costs. Before you have said that insurance companies shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions. That would automatically doom anyone with a pre-existing condition to bankruptcy and permanent poverty unless they happened to be very rich.

As far us, we just crossed the $45,000 line for medical expenditures for this year. It will not bankrupt us because we save and avoid debt. I can promise you that our net worth has not increased by 20% as you say it will for anyone responsible with their money though.

Since age 16, I have never been unemployed for more than a few weeks. I joined the military on my 17th birthday, got engaged at 18 and bought our first house at age 19. Kim works two jobs and I work a lot as well. We have never bounced a check ever.

Although our medical expenditures wiped out much of our savings in 2010 (about $30,000 plus insurace), 2011 (about $30,000 plus insurance), and 2016-2017 ($45,000+ and climbing), we won't go bankrupt since we saved and have been responsible. We are still doing fine, still have the house, and still get to do some cool things.

If however, the insurance (that we have been paying into for years) didn't cover pre-existing conditions, we probably would have gone bankrupt. Even with the three jobs between us (our 15 year old son works nearly full time as well and starting next week I am on 98 hour work weeks), we don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars laying around. (Not that we would want a handout, but I'd be pissed if insurance companies decided not to cover pre-exiting conditions after we have given them so much money for coverage).

In the US, one surgery can easily cost more than one million dollars. We spend more on medical care per person than any other country by far, but our health care is among the most error prone of developed countries as well.

More and more people are going to go bankrupt because of medical costs.

We'll pay all the bills without going bankrupt, but it shouldn't be implied that a drop in net worth is always due to mismanagement and foolishness.

(And yes, I already know that Obama Care did not lower health care costs if you were going to mention that).

[rockgremlin]

Dang Scott, your insurance SUCKS. They have you on the hook for $45K? Good grief.

How is anybody not named Shane expected to bear those costs and still be able to put food on the table?

[Iceaxe]

I do agree our current system of health care is a dumpster fire.

Before Obama Care I had great healthcare at a fairly reasonable price, now I have shitty healthcare, with an astronomical price tag and with ridiculously high premiums.

Thanks Obama

[Scott P]

Simple question... why didn't you sign up for a platinum insurance plan the minute you notice your medical expenses were going to be sky high?.

I do have a pretty good insurance plan in comparison to some others. My wife's heart surgery costs us $13,000 ($6250 max each side of the calendar year) out of a more than a quarter million.

Another $12,000+ went to premiums, not including my employers contribution.

Most of the rest went to oral surgeries and trying to save my teeth. I had my jaw shattered when I was a kid and didn't get medical care. The jaw healed itself, but left many cracks that grow bacteria and get infected. Now, a few decades later, parts of bone die and the teeth die as well. Medical insurance will NOT cover this. Supposedly dental insurance is supposed to. Dental insurance only covers $1300 and I have covered the other $20,000 or so (4 oral surgeries, plus some other things). I did get an extra insurance policy that covered a little more, but not much. Further, dental insurance companies claim that replacing teeth ($4500 a piece) is "cosmetic". Apparently having a jaw and teeth is only for aesthetic purposes.

I still have a lot of work to go (which I'm holding off until next year), so if you really do know of an insurance plan that will cover this, then by all means please show it to me and I will buy it. From what I have been able to dig up, ACA does not cover adult dental. If I am incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected.

PS, my son is also in the hospital for the next six days and I have no idea how much that will be.

[hank moon]

How many health insurance schemes does it take to make a healthy USA?

Lessee...

Buy-it-yourself general health insurance (e.g. Blue Cross)
Buy-it-yourself dental insurance
Buy-it-yourself vision insurance
Employer-sponsored group plans, with and without dental and vision options
Healthcare.gov (i.e. "Obamacare"), with and without dental and vision options
General workers' compensation
Federal employees workers' compensation (FECA)
Division of Coal Mine Workers' Compensation (DCMWC)
Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation (DEEOIC)
Medicaid
CHIP
Medicare
PEHP

What did I miss?

[rockgremlin]

What did I miss?

PEHP -- which is really quite good.

[Iceaxe]

I do have a pretty good insurance plan in comparison to some others. My wife's heart surgery costs us $13,000 ($6250 max each side of the calendar year) out of a more than a quarter million.

Another $12,000+ went to premiums, not including my employers contribution.

Most of the rest went to oral surgeries and trying to save my teeth. I had my jaw shattered when I was a kid and didn't get medical care. The jaw healed itself, but left many cracks that grow bacteria and get infected. Now, a few decades later, parts of bone die and the teeth die as well. Medical insurance will NOT cover this. Supposedly dental insurance is supposed to. Dental insurance only covers $1300 and I have covered the other $20,000 or so (4 oral surgeries, plus some other things). I did get an extra insurance policy that covered a little more, but not much. Further, dental insurance companies claim that replacing teeth ($4500 a piece) is "cosmetic". Apparently having a jaw and teeth is only for aesthetic purposes.

I still have a lot of work to go (which I'm holding off until next year), so if you really do know of an insurance plan that will cover this, then by all means please show it to me and I will buy it. From what I have been able to dig up, ACA does not cover adult dental. If I am incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected.

PS, my son is also in the hospital for the next six days and I have no idea how much that will be.

WTF! you mean Obama Care is not working for you? I'm shocked!

/sarcasm

[Scott P]

you mean Obama Care is not working for you?

I have always said that Obama care didn't follow through with promises. To be fair though, although rates did rise a lot, they rose the same or a little less each year than before Obama care. The exception is catastrophic plans. Those did go up at a faster rate than before Obama care(but there was more coverage).

So, no Obama care did not follow through with promises (as many expected, including myself). Rates didn't rise at a higher rate than before Obama care though (though they still did rise astronomically). So, obviously the promises of Obama care didn't come to pass.

That said though, isn't Obama care supposed to be history? Trump said that it would be repealed on day 1.

You may say that Trump tried to repeal it and it was stopped. You would also be 100% correct if you said that.

The reason why the repeal was stopped however, is because what Trump is proposing after the election is the exact opposite of what he promised before the election.

Let's revisit some of the health care promises made by Trump before the election:

I am going to take care of everybody. I don’t care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.

We're going to have insurance for everybody.

There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.

People can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.

They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably—the government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.

Of course that was before he was elected. Once he was elected he did a 180 on healthcare and proposed the exact opposite.

For the record, I personally don't want healthcare to be government paid (as Trump promised before the election), but I want to see cost stop rising astronomically, and for prices to be reaonable just as you do.

If Trump or anyone else would do this, I would be the first to jump on that bandwagon.

Edit:

Trump actually deleted his healthcare promises off this own website:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform

[Iceaxe]

Unemployment hits a 16 year low.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-adds-209000-jobs-in-july-unemployment-43-2017-08-04

Thanks Trump.

[emoji631]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170805/900a38de21722dcb31c9493effe12df4.jpg

[Iceaxe]

And in other news.... Congress goes on vacation after getting nothing done.

[Rob L]

And in other news.... Congress goes on vacation after getting nothing done.

Don't worry; your politicians are no different from ours!

[oldno7]

How many health insurance schemes does it take to make a healthy USA?

Lessee...

Buy-it-yourself general health insurance (e.g. Blue Cross)
Buy-it-yourself dental insurance
Buy-it-yourself vision insurance
Employer-sponsored group plans, with and without dental and vision options
Healthcare.gov (i.e. "Obamacare"), with and without dental and vision options
General workers' compensation
Federal employees workers' compensation (FECA)
Division of Coal Mine Workers' Compensation (DCMWC)
Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation (DEEOIC)
Medicaid
CHIP
Medicare
PEHP

What did I miss?


A JOB!!!

[oldno7]

....

[Scott P]

I do have a pretty good insurance plan in comparison to some others. My wife's heart surgery costs us $13,000 ($6250 max each side of the calendar year) out of a more than a quarter million.

Another $12,000+ went to premiums, not including my employers contribution.

Most of the rest went to oral surgeries and trying to save my teeth. I had my jaw shattered when I was a kid and didn't get medical care. The jaw healed itself, but left many cracks that grow bacteria and get infected. Now, a few decades later, parts of bone die and the teeth die as well. Medical insurance will NOT cover this. Supposedly dental insurance is supposed to. Dental insurance only covers $1300 and I have covered the other $20,000 or so (4 oral surgeries, plus some other things). I did get an extra insurance policy that covered a little more, but not much. Further, dental insurance companies claim that replacing teeth ($4500 a piece) is "cosmetic". Apparently having a jaw and teeth is only for aesthetic purposes.

I still have a lot of work to go (which I'm holding off until next year), so if you really do know of an insurance plan that will cover this, then by all means please show it to me and I will buy it. From what I have been able to dig up, ACA does not cover adult dental. If I am incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected.

PS, my son is also in the hospital for the next six days and I have no idea how much that will be.

Total so far $48,547.40. Not much left in the bank account.

[oldno7]

....

[oldno7]

,,,

[Iceaxe]

Kaboom!!! Trump just took out his war club in Phoenix and pounded the snot out of the main stream media among other targets. If nothing else it was certainly entertaining.

:popcorn:

[twotimer]

I watched it on CNN just to see how they would react. It's all out war, baby...they completely flipped out. I mean WAR...the gloves are off now. I think it's about to get a LOT worse and that suits me just fine.

He also called out the lightweight Republicans in Congress. Nobody but Trump could do this. I think he's just straight up awesome. I'm also in love with Katie Pavlich.

[Scott P]

Kaboom!!! Trump just took out his war club in Phoenix and pounded the snot out of the main stream media among other targets. If nothing else it was certainly entertaining.

:popcorn:

How about working on thing such as healthcare, negotiating with prescription companies, infrastructure, etc., instead of all this BS?

What ever happened to those promises?

[devo_stevo]

Yeah. It's getting to the point where being the president means that all you do is PR crap all day long, complain about someone or something, campaign for the next election, or try to tear down the legacy of the president that came before you. There's no time for anything else, it appears.

Nobody in congress has the brass to do anything about healthcare. It's a mess that nobody wants their hands in. Republicans are all talk. They voted a bunch of times when Obama was president to repeal that mess because they knew it would just get vetoed. It meant nothing. Now that they can actually get it done, they have no idea what they are doing anymore.

Unfortunately, all of those promises you mentioned are going away just like his status as a non-politician. He is quickly being assimilated.

[twotimer]

Up until 2008, I'd never voted in my life. I figured they were all a bunch of pukes anyway, so why bother to take the time and stand in line? However, with mail ballots these days there's really no excuse.

Anyway, I was on my way home when the news broke of the "Goddamn America" thing, and I thought "Oh no, no, no, no NO!" Not this crap, not in the WHITE HOUSE! So I came home, got on this computer and registered as a Republican. Not only that, but I had also seen the cover of Rolling Stone that had a halo over Obama's head, like he was Jesus and I thought "WTF is this?".

For the next 8 years (and beyond) I saw the mass media with it's tongue firmly planted up the Democrat Party's ass...or is it the other way around, like a dirty 69, huh?

I voted for Trump, and support him regardless of his behavior because he's NOT one of them. The mainstream liberal mass media, the giant advertising corporations, the mass marketing, the non-stop barrage of social engineering designed to influence how people look, act, think and decorate their bodies, what they buy...like a bunch of spiral eyed brainwashed meatheads falling in line and going along with the program, buying the mental dope their pushing.

Hollywood, in particular, with their hypocritical self grandiose delusions mixed with the sleaze and smut the sell. Because of Trump, the people that reject this shit have both voice and power. I wasn't expecting him to come in and right all the wrongs in the world.

He has to fight them, otherwise he'd be buried

.87560

[Iceaxe]

How about working on thing such as healthcare, negotiating with prescription companies, infrastructure, etc., instead of all this BS?

What ever happened to those promises?The problem is not with the president, he is doing his job. The problem is with Congress. And I say that if you are talking Obama or Trump, both attempted to do what they were elected to do and congress did/does nothing but obstruct.... so... I think you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction. YMMV

[Scott P]

Hollywood, in particular, with their hypocritical self grandiose delusions mixed with the sleaze and smut the sell.

Why watch it? The simple way of staying away from Hollywood is to simply turn the TV off and don't watch movies.

We haven't had TV for 13 years now. We might occasionally watch DVD's or go to a movie (a few times a year), but Hollywood is easy to avoid. No one is forced to watch it.


I voted for Trump, and support him regardless of his behavior because he's NOT one of them.

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that he isn't one of them. He was the host of a "reality" TV show and seems to love to be on TV.

[Iceaxe]

One other serious problem I see with Trump getting things done is many of the "never Trump" crew are still running the Republican party.

[Scott P]

The problem is not with the president, he is doing his job. The problem is with Congress. And I say that if you are talking Obama or Trump, both attempted to do what they were elected to do and congress did/does nothing but obstruct.... so... I think you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction. YMMV

Congress is indeed a problem, but can you give and example of what has Trump attempted to do with infrastructure or negotiating with pharmaceutical companies and who has obstructed him in doing so?

He was obstructed in repealing Obama care, but only because his post election attempts were the exact opposite of his campaign promises.

I have said before it is the Legislative branch of government who is supposed to make the laws and I still hold to this, but what about promises made?

I agree that all politicians lie, but Trump doesn't do America any favors by throwing fits on Twitter, complaining about Hillary (which should be old news-she lost), rallying, et al, which he spends a whole lot of time on. He;s his own worst enemy. It would be much better if he would focus on issues that are important (and this isn't just limited to Trump, but a whole lot of other politicians).

I have already said that I would give credit where credit is due if Trump and of course Congress work on some of the issues above. This would be a lot more important than Twitter rants, rallies, etc.

Trump won't destroy America, but eventually the two party system just might.

[twotimer]

Why watch it? The simple way of staying away from Hollywood is to simply turn the TV off and don't watch movies.

We haven't had TV for 13 years now. We might occasionally watch DVD's or go to a movie (a few times a year), but Hollywood is easy to avoid. No one is forced to watch it.

[COLOR=#333333]

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that he isn't one of them. He was the host of a "reality" TV show and seems to love to be on TV.I'm not talking about the influence of the media and myself, personally. I think you're so disconnected from it all you don't see what's happening.

Perhaps that's a good thing...considering I go into Starbucks and there's a 20 year old guy wearing mascara and lipstick, with absolutely horrible tattoo's up to his neck...I reckon you don't have to worry about your son coming home looking like that.

Forget about Trump's TV past, they hate him and that's all that matters. The Nazi's and the Soviets were able to control millions by being joined at the hip with the media. My concern about the information we get and the government being too closely tied is a legitimate concern, right?

[Scott P]

My concern about the information we get and the government being too closely tied is a legitimate concern, right?

Yes it is a concern.

Trump calling everything fake news seems like an endorsement of state run media, even if not intended that way (and I don't think it is intended that way).

What's the alternative to private owned news corporations?

[Scott P]

I'm not talking about the influence of the media and myself, personally. I think you're so disconnected from it all you don't see what's happening.

Perhaps that's a good thing...considering I go into Starbucks and there's a 20 year old guy wearing mascara and lipstick, with absolutely horrible tattoo's up to his neck...I reckon you don't have to worry about your son coming home looking like that.

Obviously I am "disconnected from it all" because I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. What does and a guy with mascara and tatoos have anything to do with this? Are you saying the media and Hollywood made him do it?

Even if that were so, why would anybody care? The only reason at all I can think of is that if it prevented him from getting a job, I'd have to pay for that.

Also, such people who do those things are usually seeking attention. If you don't like to see it, simply don't look and ignore it.

[twotimer]

Nevermind...it's all good.

[hank moon]

Trump rode his mutual enmity with the media to the White House. For many Republicans, what matters most about Donald Trump is that he’s demonstrated resolve against the enemy — not the Islamic State or the Taliban, but the media.


The media has become for the Right what the Soviet Union was during the Cold War — a common, unifying adversary of overwhelming importance. Before the fall of the Berlin Wall, religious conservatives and libertarians could agree that, whatever their other differences, godless communism had to be resisted. This commitment was the glue of the GOP coalition, and the basic price of admission to conservatism.


Now, a policy of containment, preferably rollback, of the mainstream media occupies that central role. Trump may not be delivering on his agenda, but he’s a righteous, unyielding warrior against the media. And this is the one nonnegotiable. To put it in terms of the famous Isaiah Berlin essay, the fox knows many things; the hedgehog knows one thing — CNN sucks.


Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450808/donald-trump-media-republicans-hatred-leftist-media-trumps-all-else

[Sombeech]

Dang, how long has Trump been in office and he's already been discredited with following through? How long did y'all give Obama to shut down Guantanamo Bay?

[accadacca]

Fact or Fiction?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170904/b8dcd3b2153fb14882924921bde1270c.jpg

[Iceaxe]

I don't know about the other claims, but the one about Barbara Res heading up the construction of Trump Towers is true. In fact that statement kind of downplays the roll she played as she was instrumental in a number of his projects.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-frontline-interview-barbara-res/

[accadacca]

(CNN) — During his final moments in the Oval Office, President Barack Obama folded into thirds a handwritten letter to Donald Trump, slid it into an envelope, and it in neat capital letters addressed it to "Mr. President."

Now, the contents of that letter -- the last direct communication between the 44th and 45th presidents -- have emerged for the first time after CNN obtained a copy.

Dear Mr. President -

Congratulations on a remarkable run. Millions have placed their hopes in you, and all of us, regardless of party, should hope for expanded prosperity and security during your tenure.

This is a unique office, without a clear blueprint for success, so I don't know that any advice from me will be particularly helpful. Still, let me offer a few reflections from the past 8 years.

First, we've both been blessed, in different ways, with great good fortune. Not everyone is so lucky. It's up to us to do everything we can (to) build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard.

Second, American leadership in this world really is indispensable. It's up to us, through action and example, to sustain the international order that's expanded steadily since the end of the Cold War, and upon which our own wealth and safety depend.

Third, we are just temporary occupants of this office. That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions -- like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties -- that our forebears fought and bled for. Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it's up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them.

And finally, take time, in the rush of events and responsibilities, for friends and family. They'll get you through the inevitable rough patches.

Michelle and I wish you and Melania the very best as you embark on this great adventure, and know that we stand ready to help in any ways which we can.

Good luck and Godspeed,

BO

The words reveal a conciliatory outgoing commander in chief with four items of advice for his successor, whose fitness for the job he'd spent the previous months openly questioning.

"Congratulations on a remarkable run," Obama wrote in his opening line. "Millions have placed their hopes in you, and all of us, regardless of party, should hope for expanded prosperity and security during your tenure."

Written out longhand on White House stationery and slipped into the top drawer of the Resolute Desk, the 275-word letter captures an outgoing president eager to instill in Trump the vast responsibilities and uncertain parameters of the job.

Obama, when writing the letter, didn't disclose the content even to his closest aides. Since then, however, Trump has shown the letter to visitors in the Oval Office or his private White House residence. CNN obtained a copy from someone Trump showed it to.

"This is a unique office, without a clear blueprint for success, so I don't know that any advice from me will be particularly helpful," Obama wrote. "Still, let me offer a few reflections from the past 8 years."

Obama reminds Trump, a billionaire businessman, that they've both been "blessed, in different ways, with great good fortune."

"Not everyone is so lucky," Obama said. "It's up to us to do everything we can (to) build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard."

He advises Trump that American leadership is "indispensable" and encourages him "through action and example" to sustain post-Cold War international order.

And he offers a warning against eroding the tenets of democracy in the name of political gain.

"We are just temporary occupants of this office," Obama wrote. "That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions -- like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties -- that our forebears fought and bled for."

"Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it's up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them," he said.

That passage, read seven months after Trump took office, appears prescient. Trump has been accused of flouting rule of law in his broadsides against federal judges and his own attorney general. His verbal assaults on Congress have led to charges that he's disregarding the constitutionally enshrined separate but equal branches of government.

Trump, however, is said to cherish Obama's missive. Upon reading it on Inauguration Day, he attempted to place a phone call to the former president expressing his gratitude, according to both a current White House official and a former Obama aide. His predecessor was traveling west to California with his family, and couldn't take the call.

When one of Obama's aides reached back out to the White House to return the call, the new president's staffers said Trump just wanted to say thank you for the note -- and wanted Obama to get the message. The men never connected directly.

"It was long. It was complex. It was thoughtful," Trump said of the letter the week after taking office in an interview with ABC News. "And it took time to do it, and I appreciated it."

During the interview, Trump showed the news crew the letter, pulling it from its envelope. He wouldn't read it out loud.

In writing Trump the letter, Obama was continuing a long tradition set by past presidents. He received his own handwritten note from George W. Bush on the day of his inauguration counseling him of uncertain days ahead.

"There will be trying moments. The critics will rage. Your 'friends' will disappoint you," Bush wrote. "But, you will have an Almighty God to comfort you, a family who loves you, and a country that is pulling for you, including me."

Eight years earlier, Bill Clinton offered an optimistic view of the job.

"The burdens you now shoulder are great but often exaggerated," he wrote Bush in 2000. "The sheer joy of doing what you believe is right is inexpressible."

And in 1992, George H.W. Bush wrote Clinton that "your success now is our country's success."

"I am rooting hard for you," he concluded. "Good luck."

Obama's letter is nearly twice as long as his predecessors' and includes more specific pieces of advice. But like Clinton and both Bushes, he offers a view of the job that accounts both for its thrill but also its ability to humble.

"Take time, in the rush of events and responsibilities, for friends and family," Obama wrote. "They'll get you through the inevitable rough patches."

Since reading the letter for the first time, Trump hasn't spoken or seen Obama. Instead he's frequently criticized the former president, rolled back significant elements of Obama's agenda, and privately obsessed about comparisons between himself and the man he replaced.

Obama, meanwhile, has weighed in selectively on Trump since leaving office. He criticized decisions to withdraw from the Paris climate accord and repeal Obamacare, but did not directly address Trump's equivocal comments about white supremacists in Virginia, even as others reacted with withering criticism.

Before all that, however, Obama wrote that he was willing to remain in touch.

"Michelle and I wish you and Melania the very best as you embark on this great adventure, and know that we stand ready to help in any ways which we can," he wrote in his sign-off.

"Good luck and Godspeed."

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45659219&nid=157&title=read-the-inauguration-day-letter-obama-left-for-trump

[hank moon]

http://www.snopes.com/so-you-think-you-know-donald-trump/

[Iceaxe]

http://www.snopes.com/so-you-think-you-know-donald-trump/FWIW - Using Snopes as a source for fact checking Trump is pretty damn funny, since Snopes has been shown to be less then honest and forcing a liberal agenda in such matters.

Fact checking the fact checkers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/

[hank moon]

FWIW - Using Snopes as a source for fact checking Trump is pretty damn funny, since Snopes has been shown to be less then honest and forcing a liberal agenda in such matters.

Fact checking the fact checkers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/

All sources are biased, making it essential to fact check yourself. Snopes is a good stop along the way, but there's no one-stop shop.

Bible/BOM/Koran/Gita/TBOD/WSJ/WPO/... pick your bubble(s)

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170904/a504ea92b5dbd952052fe9a66e003f1f.jpg

[hank moon]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170904/a504ea92b5dbd952052fe9a66e003f1f.jpg

Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way. :-)

[Iceaxe]

Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way. :-)That could be said for any job. But for the most part the above comment is everything that is wrong with liberal thinking.

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170904/4890f609a5faa72222f1acc068ca8a74.jpg

[Scott P]

Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way. :-)

I'm with Shane on this one; if you earned the money and invested it than it is earning money not mooching.

Comparing Trump to Lincoln though, not cool.

[Scott P]

I hope Trump does well with the North Korea situation, but I don't see any good options. This could be a real test of Trump's leadership and I hope that he does well. Unfortunately, it does seem like a lose-lose situation.

[oldno7]

Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way. :-)

So by your extreme lack of logic--how do you equate, those who lose everything from "investment's"?

[oldno7]

...

[hank moon]

I'm with Shane on this one; if you earned the money and invested it than it is earning money not mooching.

Define "earn" (for yourself) please? Is winning money through a lottery or gambling "earning" that money?

[qedcook]

Define "earn" (for yourself) please? Is winning money through a lottery or gambling "earning" that money?

What a joke! Hank, define what "is" is.

Making money off of investments is the exact opposite of mooching off the system. By that same logic, going to college and obtaining marketable skills is mooching off the system. Having good parents and a good upbringing is mooching off the system. Using a computer is mooching off the system. Learning to interview well and obtain a good job is mooching off the system. Learning to save and budget your money is mooching off the system.

Take some accountability for crying out loud.

[hank moon]

What a joke! Hank, define what "is" is.

Making money off of investments is the exact opposite of mooching off the system. By that same logic, going to college and obtaining marketable skills is mooching off the system. Having good parents and a good upbringing is mooching off the system. Using a computer is mooching off the system. Learning to interview well and obtain a good job is mooching off the system. Learning to save and budget your money is mooching off the system.

Take some accountability for crying out loud.


Define "mooching off the system" from personal experience and/or first-hand knowledge (i.e. not from media reports, books, etc.).

[Scott P]

Define "earn" (for yourself) please? Is winning money through a lottery or gambling "earning" that money?

With investments, you work to earn money and invest in other companies or your own. You assume the risk and rewards as a business decision. So yes, you did earn the money.

Lottery and gsmbling is a different topic, bit if people want to spend their own money on such things, that's their own business. That said though, if they are spending someone else's money or are on public assistance, then that isn't right and is mooching off the system.

[Sombeech]

Comparing Trump to Lincoln though, not cool.

Aw c'mon man, as some of us were reading through that list, we were like "ha ha, yes!" Then realized it was describing President Lincoln's run and not Trump, there was an inaudible "ah shit" that swept across the readers of that meme.

[Iceaxe]

^^^THIS^^^

The point being Lincoln was hated every bit as much as Trump, even at his death Lincoln was hated by half the country. It took history and time for the country to understand he was one of our greatest presidents ever.

Who knows what the Trump legacy will be in 50 years, but we can all hope it's equal to Lincoln as that is a worthy goal every president should strive for.

[Scott P]

^^^THIS^^^

The point being Lincoln was hated every bit as much as Trump, even at his death Lincoln was hated by half the country. It took history and time for the country to understand he was one of our greatest presidents ever.

Who knows what the Trump legacy will be in 50 years, but we can all hope it's equal to Lincoln as that is a worthy goal every president should strive for.

You are right that some of the phrases could be attributed to Trump, but the context is very different.

Lincoln did everything he could to keep this nation together and that's why he was hated.

Trump is not doing everything he can to keep this nation together and I don't care what anyone says about this.

In fact, I don't think any president in recent history has done that much to keep this nation together. Arguably (emphasis on arguably), Kennedy may have been the last to do try this, but even that is a stretch. Plus he wasn't president very long and that was 50+ years ago.

Comparing Lincoln to Trump or any other predident in recent history is pure fallacy.

As far as Trump's legacy goes, no it won't be equal to Lincoln's. I can guarantee this. Feel free to contact me in 50 years so I can say "I told you so".

[qedcook]

Define "mooching off the system" from personal experience and/or first-hand knowledge (i.e. not from media reports, books, etc.).

No thanks. You define it.

[Iceaxe]

Trump is not doing everything he can to keep this nation together and I don't care what anyone says about this.

:roll:

You don't understand because you and people like you are the problem..... I see you as a white plantation owner in 1860 Alabama, obviously you see yourself in a different light.

Trump is fighting a different battle, but same war as Lincoln. I just hope Trump is as successful in the end as Lincoln was. YMMV.

#MAGA

https://cdn1.lockerdomecdn.com/uploads/a693ee3d65b1f834b45d1e7792b266f0bb7215f180ac285544 70649a23c81cd8_large

[Iceaxe]

:roll:

You don't understand because you and people like you are the problem..... I see you as a white plantation owner in 1860 Alabama, obviously you see yourself in a different light.

Trump is fighting a different battle, but same war as Lincoln. I just hope Trump is as successful in the end as Lincoln was. YMMV.

#MAGA

I apologize as that was kind of mean of me. Perhaps I can explain it this way. You play not to lose, while I always play to win. You probably see little difference between those two statements, but to me they are world's apart.

[Scott P]

I apologize as that was kind of mean of me. Perhaps I can explain it this way. You play not to lose, while I always play to win. You probably see little difference between those two statements, but to me they are world's apart.

Or more likely our definition of "winning" is completely different.

To me, winning is up to me and not the president (and isn't that a conservative ideal?).

I had a tough time growing up, but since I was 16 (and for much of the time before that), I haven't been unemployed for more than a few weeks. I joined the military on my 17th birthday. We bought our first house when I was 19 years old. I worked my way up the ladder and am now pretty successful. I have a beautiful sweet wife (whom I married as a teenager) and two good kids. I have done a lot of cool stuff including visiting 50 countries, climbed 200+ mountains, have done a lot of canyons, etc. I worked hard for all of it and I have never been on any kind of welfare. I have never bounced a check or been late on a bill (unless it was a clericsl error on part of the payee). I help others when I can. I have offered services and even our house to those in need.

Is that not winning?

That said, even though I am winning, I still want things to be better for me and others. I want continued access to areas that provide opportunities for healthy physical exercise and placed to enjoy nature. I want peace wherever possible, but understand that we need to prepare for war. I want more affordable (not free) healthcare. I want people to treat each other with respect. I want children to be taken care of because I don't think that they should be punished for being born or their parents social status. I want people to have access to an education, because that is an investment, not a liability. Of course, I want to do my own share and part in this and don't think that it will just happen on it's own.

Sure I want the stock market to go up, but that isn't my #1 priority in life, especially if done by allowing countries to pollute more. I am 100% in favor of industry and using energy; I just don't see why it shouldn't be done cleaner.

So yes, I do like winning. Our definitions of winning are different.

OK, and here's one definition of winning we might agree on. I had sex 8 times over the weekend. Certainly you would agree that that is winning?

[hank moon]

What a joke! Hank, define what "is" is.

Making money off of investments is the exact opposite of mooching off the system. By that same logic, going to college and obtaining marketable skills is mooching off the system. Having good parents and a good upbringing is mooching off the system. Using a computer is mooching off the system. Learning to interview well and obtain a good job is mooching off the system. Learning to save and budget your money is mooching off the system.

Take some accountability for crying out loud.


It's not possible to provide a one-size-fits all definition of "mooching off the system" - it just means whatever one wants it to mean in order to make a point, "be right," judge others, etc. Totally subjective.

But it is possible to give specific examples, such as:

If you wrote the above (or any other social media post) while being paid by anyone other than yourself, you are mooching off the system.

[qedcook]

It's not possible to provide a one-size-fits all definition of "mooching off the system" - it just means whatever one wants it to mean in order to make a point, "be right," judge others, etc. Totally subjective.

But it is possible to give specific examples, such as:

If you wrote the above (or any other social media post) while being paid by anyone other than yourself, you are mooching off the system.

You're the one that said that "Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way." So, when you said that, 'it just meant whatever you wanted it to mean in order to make a point, "be right," judge others, etc. Totally subjective.'???

I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but your claim just seemed so ridiculous. To me, not by any stretch of the imagination, and not by any logical definition of any of the vocabulary, could you say: "Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way."

[hank moon]

You're the one that said that "Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way." So, when you said that, 'it just meant whatever you wanted it to mean in order to make a point, "be right," judge others, etc. Totally subjective.'???

I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but your claim just seemed so ridiculous. To me, not by any stretch of the imagination, and not by any logical definition of any of the vocabulary, could you say: "Making money from investments is also mooching off the system, just in a different way."

What I was trying to say is that "mooching off the system" is a politically loaded term that is entirely subjective. Its meaning will vary with the individual. Old fake news dies hard. For example: the notorious "Welfare Queen" myth that has long been discredited - it still resonates in national politics. So when folks start tossing "mooching off the system" around as if it's as well defined as the number 2, it's time to poke holes in it.

It's a fair question to ask, "what is earning" b/c of its inherent subjectivity. For example, there are ways to "earn" money through investments, and there are ways to "steal" or "mooch" money through investments. I submit that most folks who invest money are receiving more money than is their due by a moral standard of "earning" That is, if you have enough money, you can simply hire someone to invest it for you, make a bunch of dough, without really "earning" it in the sense that you put forth a real effort to receive that money. In other words, buying money is not earning money (to me), so what is it? I call it "mooching off the system."

What would be a real-life example to your mind of "mooching off the system" ?

[uintafly]

Mooching off of the system is in the eye of the beholder. To some it may be a single mom with 3 kids living on welfare, to another it may be a Southern Utah welfare rancher paying significantly below market rates to keep their cattle on public land, to still others it may be a corn famer succeeding thanks to ethanol mandates and subsidies.

It's easy of course to point at the other team and see then mooching, harder is to see where your team may be mooching.

[Scott P]

Mooching of the system is using someone else's resources when you can provide for yourself. Investing in the stock market with your own money does not qualify.

[oldno7]

,,,

[hank moon]

,,,

The more openly racist folk are still upset that a black man occupied the White® House. Interesting parallel between the monument-topplers and these sad attempts at erasing more recent history (at taxpayer expense, natch).

[twotimer]

The more openly racist folk are still upset that a black man occupied the White® House.I'm kinda one of those dudes. It's not that he was black that bothered me, it's that he was a lazy caricature. He should have brought the black community at least a little bit out of the ghetto. Instead he and his media puppet masters made it worse. They created a freaky kind of war between class, race and sex.

It's funny to me that guys like Sharpton and Farrakhan preach about the house negro being bought up in politics only to be manipulated by the Jewish heirarchy, and that's exacty what happened. Friggin' ironic, huh?

It's all just a three ringed circus side show of freaks.

[Iceaxe]

^^^THIS^^^

When Obama was elected I thought, well at least this guy understands race relations and will be able to forward that agenda..... WRONG! .... Obama set race relations back 30 years.

[Scott P]

^^^THIS^^^

When Obama was elected I thought, well at least this guy understands race relations and will be able to forward that agenda..... WRONG! .... Obama set race relations back 30 years.

And you really think Trump is doing better with this? (Serious question).

Racism has no place in modern society (and I do know that it's not only whites that can be racists).

Obama and the Democrats have been weak with calling out Islamic racism, but the Republicans have been weak with calling out right wing terrorism. I'm not afraid to call out both sides.

[Iceaxe]

No, Trump is doing no better. But I never expected Trump to be great at fixing race relations, that's a HUGE difference. At least Trump hasn't set black race relations back 30 years like Obama did.

[oldno7]

The more openly racist folk are still upset that a black man occupied the White® House. Interesting parallel between the monument-topplers and these sad attempts at erasing more recent history (at taxpayer expense, natch).

See your wrong again, which it seems you take great pride in...:roflol:

You see, I was equally upset with his white half..

your better at mooching off the system than trolling, go back to doing what you have perfected..

[devo_stevo]

I'm kinda one of those dudes. It's not that he was black that bothered me, it's that he was a lazy caricature. He should have brought the black community at least a little bit out of the ghetto. Instead he and his media puppet masters made it worse. They created a freaky kind of war between class, race and sex.

It's funny to me that guys like Sharpton and Farrakhan preach about the house negro being bought up in politics only to be manipulated by the Jewish heirarchy, and that's exacty what happened. Friggin' ironic, huh?

It's all just a three ringed circus side show of freaks.I had the same thought. As far as I was concerned, the fact that he got elected was objective proof that the USA was moving beyond its ugly past with regards to racism and all that.

If he had come into the office and told the country that just because you are born a black kid in a poor family and raised by a single mother, it doesn't mean that you can't go to the best schools, get a great job, care for your family, and who knows, become the president of the United States of America, I think that things could be much better than they are now.

That's not what he did though. Every time something happened or he got up to speak, he told us all about how america hates black people and that until recently, they weren't allowed into museums or whatever it was they were talking about at the time. That really doesn't help much at all. In fact, if you want to move forward, the best way to do that is to not look back. It felt like that's all he did was look backwards in regards to race relations. As a result, the entire country started to do the same thing and suddenly, we're right back in it.

[Sombeech]

I don't listen or watch most of Trump's addresses to the nation, but I have noticed all of them that I can remember, he emphasizes coming together as all Americans. I don't follow politics much because it's just something else to get mad at while not having any control, but jeez at least the dude is trying to build relations with the black community.

He could just throw millions at the problem but he's down in Houston visiting with the victims.

Of course, here's how CNN would view it, in this near non parody.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-1YeOw6G3o

[Iceaxe]

ROFLMAO......... :roflol:

[Rob L]

Who is the wax-figure anchorman on that report? Or is it computer-generated?

Genuine q.

Rob

[Sombeech]

Who is the wax-figure anchorman on that report? Or is it computer-generated?

Genuine q.

Rob

At the end in the corner? That's Mark Dice.

[twotimer]

I had the same thought. As far as I was concerned, the fact that he got elected was objective proof that the USA was moving beyond its ugly past with regards to racism and all that.

If he had come into the office and told the country that just because you are born a black kid in a poor family and raised by a single mother, it doesn't mean that you can't go to the best schools, get a great job, care for your family, and who knows, become the president of the United States of America, I think that things could be much better than they are now.

That's not what he did though. Every time something happened or he got up to speak, he told us all about how america hates black people and that until recently, they weren't allowed into museums or whatever it was they were talking about at the time. That really doesn't help much at all. In fact, if you want to move forward, the best way to do that is to not look back. It felt like that's all he did was look backwards in regards to race relations. As a result, the entire country started to do the same thing and suddenly, we're right back in it.
Holy Moses dude...that was a beautiful post.

[devo_stevo]

Thanks a lot. I really believe that he had a great opportunity to move this country into a better place. More than any person in history. He squandered it due to his bitterness toward the past. Whether you agree with him politically or not, it doesn't matter. Nobody else has had the ability that he did to move this country in a positive direction regarding racial issues than him, and he threw it away.

[oldno7]

...

[oldno7]

,,,

[Brian in SLC]

Thanks a lot. I really believe that he had a great opportunity to move this country into a better place. More than any person in history. He squandered it due to his bitterness toward the past. Whether you agree with him politically or not, it doesn't matter. Nobody else has had the ability that he did to move this country in a positive direction regarding racial issues than him, and he threw it away.

Its interesting, the Obama legacy, especially with regard to race.

What demographic or data would you point to that shows his success or failure?

Hate crimes against people of color up or down during his presidency? Down.

This trend up or down under Trump? Up.

Estimate of racially focused hate group numbers up or down during Obama? Down.

Trend up or down under Trump? Up.

Anyhow...interesting to ponder. Double standards...damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

Thoughtful article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064/

Obama's response to the Trayvon situation? His speech after the verdict is pretty interesting to consider:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/19/remarks-president-trayvon-martin

Ferguson?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/running-transcript-obamas-remarks-on-ferguson-mo-and-iraq/2014/08/18/ed29d07a-2713-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html?utm_term=.bef27d0c3573

Ours is a nation of laws: of citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

Obama's background? Columbia then Harvard Law. In the big media frenzy race issues of the day, he let the law run its course. Didn't take sides. Let the process work.

Remember...he taught constitutional law.

I've always liked this quote:

“The thing is, a black man can’t be president in America, given the racial aversion and history that’s still out there,” Cornell Belcher, a pollster for Obama, told the journalist Gwen Ifill after the 2008 election. “However, an extraordinary, gifted, and talented young man who happens to be black can be president.”

Did he move the needle? Yeah, probably. Slow a better process than rapid change when it comes to some of this stuff.

[Scott P]

What would be a real-life example to your mind of "mooching off the system" ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Suleman

[Iceaxe]

What Happened....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170914/0336f9a112d28ff87290bb47a758d203.jpg

[oldno7]

...a mentor for hank

[oldno7]

I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

[oldno7]

...hmm, the list goes on, then as now...
all have a political affiliation.
the real racist is the boy crying wolf...

[oldno7]

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Glory) trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.
— Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS), 1944

[Sombeech]

Estimate of racially focused hate group numbers up or down during Obama? Down.

Trend up or down under Trump? Up.

OK, I don't know anything about this statistic so if you wouldn't mind an honest question, would this source consider the violent ANTIFA groups as part of the hate groups? People against Trump?

Would we really blame Trump for upsetting the privileged upper middle class Millennials that make up the majority of these groups? Personally, if somebody is upsetting these little shits, I would honestly think it's because he did something right.

If I start grounding my kids for bad behavior, and they created a poll showing an increase of resentment towards their parent (me), that's a sign that I am headed in the right direction.

[Brian in SLC]

OK, I don't know anything about this statistic so if you wouldn't mind an honest question, would this source consider the violent ANTIFA groups as part of the hate groups? People against Trump?

Would we really blame Trump for upsetting the privileged upper middle class Millennials that make up the majority of these groups? Personally, if somebody is upsetting these little shits, I would honestly think it's because he did something right.

If I start grounding my kids for bad behavior, and they created a poll showing an increase of resentment towards their parent (me), that's a sign that I am headed in the right direction.

No, I don't think ANTIFA was considered a hate group.

Yes, we can blame Trump. From the Atlantic article this week:

Trump has changed that. For antifa, the result has been explosive growth. According to NYC Antifa, the group’s Twitter following nearly quadrupled in the first three weeks of January alone. (By summer, it exceeded 15,000.) Trump’s rise has also bred a new sympathy for antifa among some on the mainstream left. “Suddenly,” noted the antifa-aligned journal It’s Going Down, “anarchists and antifa, who have been demonized and sidelined by the wider Left have been hearing from liberals and Leftists, ‘you’ve been right all along.’ ” An article in The Nation argued that “to call Trumpism fascist” is to realize that it is “not well combated or contained by standard liberal appeals to reason.” The radical left, it said, offers “practical and serious responses in this political moment.”

I think some of the "hate" ascribed to the ANTIFA folks maybe a bit exaggerated. There's certainly plenty of stories about them being violent. But...and not to say that you have to cross this line...when did they start killing people? Something that the more legit (!) hate groups have as part of their history.

One "hate group" that's definitely on the rise that doesn't get much press is black separatists. Hmm.

Its kinda interesting...from a political tactics viewpoint...that the normally peace lovin', tree huggin', anti gun left is giving a head nod or more to the tactics they came to hate from the likes of the Tea Party and the Trump fans.

Funny to witness the energy in a rally like the Chaffetz town hall (the one all of us who lived 5 minutes away from were bused into...ha ha). I think there's a feeling, a palpable energy, that the left side of the political spectrum will employ stronger tactics to get their message across. Kind of crazy to watch. And, to hear it bandied about in a crowd of folks.

Summary from the Atlantic article:

Revulsion, fear, and rage are understandable. But one thing is clear. The people preventing Republicans from safely assembling on the streets of Portland may consider themselves fierce opponents of the authoritarianism growing on the American right. In truth, however, they are its unlikeliest allies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

Quite a pickle.

Politics. Propaganda. Pointing out that Wallace, Byrd, and Thurmon were originally on the wrong side of history is old news. They all changed. Did they in their hearts? Who knows? But, at least publicly they did. But, what purpose does it serve the person who posts such information? "See, your guys were as bad as our guys are"? Does that make it ok?

"The real racist is the boy crying wolf". Wow. Really? Or, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?

What a nutty soup...







.

[Scott P]

What Happened....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170914/0336f9a112d28ff87290bb47a758d203.jpg

I don't get all of this and I am referring to both sides. Trump can't stop talking about Hillary and Hillary can't stop talking about losing and that she should have won.

I was glad when the election was over in 2016. Apparently I thought all of this was through.

I don't know of any other presidential election where this drags on and on after the election. I don't recall Obama constantly ragging on Romney after the election and I don't recall Romney contantly saying that he should have won.

This is all getting old (I'm referring to the candidates, not you).

[Iceaxe]

^^^I think part of it is liberals still can't believe they lost the election and so they keep looking for a magic unicorn that can fix everything. The other half is Trump is thin skinned and doesn't let anything slide. This was also an extremely bitter election, Romney vs Obama doesn't even come close in comparison.

This latest round is because of Hillays new book 'What Happened' that blames the loss one everyone but her (same old story). I think most people will agree that the real problem is Hillary was a terrible choice in a candidate.

[hank moon]

I don't get all of this and I am referring to both sides. Trump can't stop talking about Hillary and Hillary can't stop talking about losing and that she should have won.

I was glad when the election was over in 2016. Apparently I thought all of this was through.

I don't know of any other presidential election where this drags on and on after the election. I don't recall Obama constantly ragging on Romney after the election and I don't recall Romney contantly saying that he should have won.

This is all getting old (I'm referring to the candidates, not you).


Hillary started it.

Best quote from this week on FB:

"We used to have a saying in Sales Meetings - There are those that make it happen, those that watch it happen, and those that ask "What happened?" HRC seems to be in the third camp. Her time is over, wish she would just clear the stage."

[Scott P]

Hillary started it.

Best quote from this week on FB:

"We used to have a saying in Sales Meetings - There are those that make it happen, those that watch it happen, and those that ask "What happened?" HRC seems to be in the third camp. Her time is over, wish she would just clear the stage."


They both can't let it go.

87620

I wonder what the longest Trump can go without posting about Hillary would be?

I agree that her time is over. Old news for both parties.

[Iceaxe]

If you pay attention Trump always responds (counterpunch in Trump speak) to Hillary's statements. So to answer your question.... the next Trump posts about Hillary will be the next time she opens her mouth about Trump.

[Scott P]

If you pay attention Trump always responds (counterpunch in Trump speak) to Hillary's statements. So to answer your question.... the next Trump post about Hillary will be the next time she opens her mouth about Trump.

This time, but not always. Often Trump posts first (and he posts about Hillary a lot more often than vice versa). They're worse than two preschoolers.

[Iceaxe]

Trump tweets don't bother me one way or the other, I actually like knowing what is rattling around inside his head.

[qedcook]

Trump tweets don't bother me one way or the other, I actually like knowing what is rattling around inside his head.

Agreed. It's the transparency that politicians have been promising for a decade.

[Sombeech]

Trump sends a few tweets about Hillary.

Hillary wrote a damn book about Trump

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170921/f79cf767e57d6dc74375aef1e206350b.jpg

[Iceaxe]

The country should bond together and give Hillary her participation trophy so we can finally be done with her.

[oldno7]

....

[uintafly]

Trump sends a few tweets about Hillary.

Hillary wrote a damn book about Trump

Maybe they should just get it on and then they can both move on. And I don't mean fight, I mean GET IT ON! bow chick a bowwow.

[devo_stevo]

Great. How am I going to get that image out of my mind now. So gross. Thanks a LOT.

[Iceaxe]

Maybe they should just get it on and then they can both move on. And I don't mean fight, I mean GET IT ON! bow chick a bowwow.

Have you seen Trumps wife?!? Why would Trump ever want to stick his dick in Hillary? That would prove he was mentally deranged beyond a shadow of doubt.

Hell, even Bill continually found greener pastures and he was married to the old cow. Actually many in the Clinton circle used to refer to Hillary as the 'Ice Princesse'.

[twotimer]

Maybe they should just get it on and then they can both move on. And I don't mean fight, I mean GET IT ON! bow chick a bowwow.This reminds me of my friend Devin back our teenage days.

The day he met my girlfriend's cousin, they started fighting immediately. Within minutes it was like "What the hell is going on between these two". It was vicious, the way they went after each other. Well, they were screwing within 24 hours. They lasted about a week.

[accadacca]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&noapp=1&v=6-Hk_po6KGIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&noapp=1&v=6-Hk_po6KGI

[uintafly]

Have you seen Trumps wife?!? Why would Trump ever want to stick his dick in Hillary? That would prove he was mentally deranged beyond a shadow of doubt.

Hell, even Bill continually found greener pastures and he was married to the old cow. Actually many in the Clinton circle used to refer to Hillary as the 'Ice Princesse'.

Oh come on, you know she's probably a dynamo in the sack, and her safe word is Benghazi. :roflol:

Plus don't you remember Hugh Grant or Tiger Woods?

[Sombeech]

Maybe they should just get it on and then they can both move on. And I don't mean fight, I mean GET IT ON! bow chick a bowwow.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/523/C1mGBSvWEAANu9k.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Would you rather spend the weekend with Hillary or Herpes?

14% - Hillary
86% - Herpes

[Sombeech]

Would you rather spend the weekend with Hillary or Herpes?

14% - Hillary
86% - Herpes

Only if the Herpes last for the weekend

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170923/dc8ce62453ea646eaf831fbce8065d4d.png

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170923/112125ef85dc40787f5d475902fa6ada.jpg

[accadacca]

Between the NFL and NBA Trump is pissing everyone off.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170923/693d11c4421180a57c59d344d8ec0fa1.png

Trump Says NFL Owners Should Fire Any "Son Of A Bitch" Who Refuses To Stand For The National Anthem

NFL commissioner: Trump showed 'lack of respect' for league

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170923/e7105bc02c5608e87015a9ff7560ef7d.jpeg
This guy kneeled himself out of a job...

[Iceaxe]

Kneeling during the National Anthem does nothing but show a complete lack of respect for the brave soldier's who fought for this country and the freedoms we enjoy. A lot of good soldiers died to give the malcontents the right to show such disrespect.

YMMV

[accadacca]

It’s a tough one, but I have to agree. They have the freedom to kneel. It disrespects the soldiers who fought and died to protect their freedom.

[oldno7]

They absolutely have the freedom to kneel.

And being a business, they absolutely have the right to be fired.

I hope each side exercises their right, until we are down to those who appreciate what this country has done for them.

[oldno7]

Also--fans have the right to not support teams who put up with such foolishness or an entire league, for that matter.

We vote with our $$$$

[Scott P]

I agree with the above three posts. It is your right to kneel, but that doesn't mean that your employer doesn't have the right to fire you for doing so.

Doing things like kneeling during the National Anthem, stepping on the flag, or burning the flag is really a stupid way to protest or make a point in this country.

Even if your cause is just, your message will be lost because you are finding such a disrespectful way to make a point.

If you want people to listen to you, find a different way to make your point.

[twotimer]

Those guys are pissed off for a reason. IDK, man...good luck to them, I guess?

If Trump ends up in a tweet smackdown with all these black athletes I think it'll make what's happening with Kim look like kid's play. The media will go apeshit with the racsist tag. Trump's right, but this could be an ugly fight.

I don't see any reason why the President should be prevented from saying what is likely a majority of people are thinking.

[Iceaxe]

Those guys are pissed off for a reason. IDK, man...good luck to them, I guess?

The Blacks have a legitimate bitch, but they would be much bettered served choosing their battles a little more wisely.

All this kneeling crap did was piss off half the American population and force them to turn their attention away from the real issue.

[uintafly]

I agree with the above three posts. It is your right to kneel, but that doesn't mean that your employer doesn't have the right to fire you for doing so.

Doing things like kneeling during the National Anthem, stepping on the flag, or burning the flag is really a stupid way to protest or make a point in this country.

Even if your cause is just, your message will be lost because you are finding such a disrespectful way to make a point.

If you want people to listen to you, find a different way to make your point.

I don't think kneeling during the anthem is in any way similar to stepping on or burning the flag. The players have repeatedly gone out of their way to say this has nothing to do with disrespecting the military, but used as a tool to bring to light the systemic racism that they deal with every day. Problems that have existed for ever, and have been largely ignored by most of America. Not anymore though. Sure some are pissed, but lots are now paying attention as well. Protests that don't ruffle any feathers rarely amount to much.

Quick question for those who find what they are doing as disrespectful. Do you feel the same way about John Carlos and Tommie Smith?