Assault Weapons?

[Brian in SLC]

Just looking at those stats quickly kinda proves how stupid some of the new proposed laws are... I notice that .223, the cartridge most associated with the AR-15 assault rifle was only used twice. While 22 rimfire, the cartridge most agree should be excluded from gun control was #2 on the list....

Well...the take away point then would be that those CA gun laws are actually working. Right?

What do you think? Are the CA gun laws a model for the whole US? They lead the way on much it seems...ha ha!

Yep, sounds like their gun restrictions are actually working.

[PunchKing]

Well...the take away point then would be that those CA gun laws are actually working. Right?

What do you think? Are the CA gun laws a model for the whole US? They lead the way on much it seems...ha ha!

Yep, sounds like their gun restrictions are actually working.

I won't pretend to know California's gun laws but a quick google search said that they "banned assault weapons" in 1989 - 1990 timeframe and the data provided in your stats doesn't cover anything before 1999 so how could you ever deduce how effective the ban was? I don't have the numbers and I am sure if I would just GTS I could find them but I suspect California is one of our nations leaders in firearm homicide even with their ban...

[Brian in SLC]

Actually...this is fresher data and pretty interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...crime-us-state

[Brian in SLC]

I won't pretend to know California's gun laws but a quick google search said that they "banned assault weapons" in 1989 - 1990 timeframe and the data provided in your stats doesn't cover anything before 1999 so how could you ever deduce how effective the ban was? I don't have the numbers and I am sure if I would just GTS I could find them but I suspect California is one of our nations leaders in firearm homicide even with their ban...

Oh, they are. Way way higher than Utah.

I bet data is out there. Goggle!

[PunchKing]

Actually...this is fresher data and pretty interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...crime-us-state

Why does the UK care so much about the US? Maybe they are still bitter... HA HA

Oh and there it was in with that data. It looks like Cali is number 1 with 1220 in 2011...

[oldno7]

Mexico doesn't have a gun ban, per se?

Sounds really restricted though.

Huge amount of guns smuggled into Mexico across the border. I gots personal experience with this, being invited downtown to have a chat with our local ATF here in SLC...

They use AK's, M4's and grenade launchers to kill each other down there, illegally obtained of course.

You think a gob more guns and less restrictions on firearms would solve a bunch of the crime in Mexico? Can I ask what you're smoking, and, did it come from Mexico? Ha ha...

Their homicide rate by firearms per 100k is way higher than us (nearly triple). They got a whole mess a problems down yonder.

Just say no?

Sounds like the results of disarming society.

And yes--I do think that if Mexican citizens were more frequently armed, they would be less likely to be victims.

And I don't smoke anything...but thanks for implying.

So would you say that there is no shortage of guns in Mexico, despite a ban?

Would you also say the vast majority of guns in Mexico are in the hands of criminals?

[Brian in SLC]

When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns? Mexico's situation is brutal, especially the drug trade. The well armed border patrols and Mexico military haven't been able to deal...can't imagine.

I don't think the Mexico situation has to do with disarming the society. Its a full on drug war. Brutal.

Back to California, though. Their data is interesting. They seen a fairly steady decline in homicides over the last 10+ years, as has the U.S. Their decline in homicide has been fairly dramatic, though.

One of the years, 2008 or so, shows an interesting county by county breakdown of homicide. The highest rate took me by surprise. San Francisco. And, counties near the border with Mexico were lower than those above.

I can't really see data that shows their gun law changes made an impact (other than maybe the rate of decline of homicides), maybe there's a study out there.

[oldno7]

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/C...rd-3739037.php

And this was pre-obama II
and Newtown

[oldno7]

When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns? Mexico's situation is brutal, especially the drug trade. The well armed border patrols and Mexico military haven't been able to deal...can't imagine.

I don't think the Mexico situation has to do with disarming the society. Its a full on drug war. Brutal.

So Mexico's statistics are not relevent, but Australia and the UK are somehow?

Sounds like listening to what you want to hear.......

[2065toyota]

And we also shouldn't always compare the AR15 that a standard citizen buys is the same gun that the military issues which is what is stated a lot. You can put a Lamborghini body on a Honda civic but that still doesn't make it a Lamborghini. I am still happy that we live in the US and can still have these discussions to hear opinions. I do believe we all new to be a little more open minded about how to deal with situation. There is usually choice A or B, but we really new to be looking at C or D

[oldno7]

Kinda like Wyoming's proposed legislation.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wyomin...s#.UPBTYG__pAG

[ratagonia]

Kinda like Wyoming's proposed legislation.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/wyomin...s#.UPBTYG__pAG

Gun nut + Constitution nut = Civil War II - The Sagebrush Rebellion!

T

[Iceaxe]

Well...the take away point then would be that those CA gun laws are actually working. Right?

Actually you have it wrong... if you look at the .223 and 7.62x39 bullets and and make the reasonable assumption they were fired from an "assault rfle" (or at least a rifle)... they are over the rational average of 3.something percent.

And I only looked at the chart for about 2 minutes.... I'm sure we can both spend hours framing the stats to support whatever argument we care to make.

[Iceaxe]

Gun nut + Constitution nut = Civil War II - The Sagebrush Rebellion!

You call them nuts, I call them patriots...

FWIW: There are several states proposing similar laws.... South Carolina has a proposed law that any firearm or firearm accessory manufactured in the state is excluded from Federal law. Several other stares are discussing similar laws.

[oldno7]

Gun nut + Constitution nut = Civil War II - The Sagebrush Rebellion!

T

So where do you stand on the issue? Certainly your house in Mt. Carmel is surrounded by gun nuts.........

Do you have a sign in your front yard--"gun free zone"?

[ratagonia]

So where do you stand on the issue? Certainly your house in Mt. Carmel is surrounded by gun nuts.........

Do you have a sign in your front yard--"gun free zone"?

Why do you ask? Still feeling irate at me? Thinking about a 2nd Amendment solution?

Don't assume too much.

There are WAY more gun-owners in this country than there are gun nuts.

Tom

[ratagonia]

You call them nuts, I call them patriots...

FWIW: There are several states proposing similar laws.... South Carolina has a proposed law that any firearm or firearm accessory manufactured in the state is excluded from Federal law. Several other stares are discussing similar laws.

South Carolina tried that before.




It didn't go too well, for anyone. Well, except maybe the slaves, but it really did not go so well for them either.



Playing well to the gun-nut/Constitution-nut choir is one thing. Actually passing the laws is another. Being able to enforce the laws is an entirely different thing. The bills are based on a specific, popular (among some) interpretation of the Constitution, that is not supported by the jurisprudence. But heck, the gun-nuts changed the Second Amendment to a personal right (Heller v. D.C.) helped by careful and clever packing of the Supreme Court with Federalists, so I guess anything is possible. Wonder who President Palin will appoint to the Supreme Court - Wayne LaPierre?

Tom

[Iceaxe]

South Carolina tried that before.

Yeah... the good ol' days.... by the way... how is that War on Drugs going for the Feds? By my last count 18 states had told the Feds to do screw themselves with regards to Marijuana. When are the Yankee's going to march on the rebels?


Hell, if the Feds can't stop a bunch if high, peace loving, stoners, how are they ever doing to deal with armed patriots?

[oldno7]

Why do you ask? Still feeling irate at me? Thinking about a 2nd Amendment solution?

Don't assume too much.

There are WAY more gun-owners in this country than there are gun nuts.

Tom

I've never been irate with you, you don't matter that much.

And yes--I'm trying to see how you feel about your Presidents 2nd amendment solutions.(at this point proposed solutions)

I can spell them out if your not certain what they are.....

MY second Amendment solution is to leave it alone!


"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

[Iceaxe]

I do believe we all [need] to be a little more open minded about how to deal with situation. There is usually choice A or B, but we really new to be looking at C or D