Assault Weapons?

[Iceaxe]

There is a group of people that are intent on doing "something". This group is charging full speed ahead with the intent of "helping" the situation. Many in this group are ignorant to firearms in general and only know what they see on TV and in movies. I suggest that it is the gun owners responsiblity to make sure this effort to help is channeled in a direction that will actually do some good.

I really don't know a gun owner that doesn't agree that firearms can be safer, that is why we have things like hunters safety and concealed carry classes. I'd suggest education is the place to start. Most of those screaming to ban guns the loudest actually have no practical experiance with a firearm. Many have never even fired a weapon.

[Sombeech]

Google searches are fun...

So you found a video. If I find more videos of barfights without guns, do I win?

[Iceaxe]

[Sandstone Addiction]

"Guns Across America" rally at the State Capitol, Saturday, Jan. 19 at noon.

Here is our chance to be seen and heard.

I like his suggestion to wear best dress and bring your families.

http://www.guncontrolmorecrime.com/

[oldno7]

How gun control SHOULD work!

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/d...hooting/nTrLK/

I only wish she had a larger caliber and a larger magazine, so the criminal wouldn't waste our tax dollars on defending him and keeping the scum alive.

[Iceaxe]

KSL Replacement

Utah Gun Exchange
http://utahgunexchange.com/

This is the best one I've seen so far. I actually do all my buying and selling here:

Gun Broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/

But I have an FFL. You can also use the advanced search feature on Gun Broker and just search Utah (or anywhere else) listings.

[2065toyota]

[PunchKing]

Hipster stat dude seems to be trying to re-direct the conversation away from homicide rates by firearms and instead on violent crime rates. A bit apples to oranges methinks.

Another stat not covered is mass shootings by firearms.

Not that his points aren't valid. But, with regard to the conversation about especially school shootings, it doesn't really address that issue.

I've not been to the UK, but, my bet is if you get in a scrap in a pub there, someone will be a victim of violent crime. Here? Chances are you'll be shot. Folks don't really duke it out much anymore. They get a gun. Societal differences.

Here is an interesting video. I suppose you could make the same apples oranges argument about it as well. The presenter does try to address some of that though.



http://youtu.be/N9efqhGBHZI

[Iceaxe]

The NRA has add 100,000 new members in the past 27 days (since Sandy Hooks).

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[oldno7]

George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress:


"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour."

[hank moon]

Is there really anybody that honestly believes that not allowing more than 10 round magazines will actually help.

I think it could help reduce the level of carnage in mass shootings, long AFTER the legal availability of such mags becomes low. That'll take time...lots of it. And yes, there will always be the black market. There is no quick fix.

Also, agree w/others who have said that education is key. As long as guns are a cultural fixture here, otta be compulsory education on their use, role and impact in society, history, etc. Not a cheap survey course, but continuing education, beginning in grade school and continuing through high school.

Speculation corner: W/O a ban, might any of the recent mass shooters sought a fully-auto weapon to achieve more deadly effect?

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress:


"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour."

You've been suckered by a bogus quote. Have a look at the Second Amendment Foundation website.
http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/general/...nderQuotes.htm

[Iceaxe]

I think it could help reduce the level of carnage in mass shootings, long AFTER the legal availability of such mags becomes low. That'll take time...lots of it.

You need to let me take you shooting one of these days.... you will discover there is almost no difference between 30 shots fired with two 15 round mags or three 10 round mags.

The really interesting thing is when I hunt rabbits I actuslly prefer two 10 round mags. It allows me to always have a full mag in the gun and reload the second mag as I walk with bullets in my pocket.... I seldom shoot s mag empty, I just swap out mags between availability of targets. Shooting unarmed children at school has got to be easier than rabbits because they don't run nearly as fast.

A second tibbit.... when the M16 was first introduced into the military the soldiers would only load 10 bullets


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[oldno7]

You've been suckered by a bogus quote. Have a look at the Second Amendment Foundation website.
http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/general/...nderQuotes.htm

Yep, you are correct. Apparently I didn't read Playboy in the 90's or I would have known that.

[2065toyota]

Speculation corner: W/O a ban, might any of the recent mass shooters sought a fully-auto weapon to achieve more deadly effect?

The problem is too many of these decision are made off of speculations and opinions, without respect to logic and fact

[Brian in SLC]

Speculation corner: W/O a ban, might any of the recent mass shooters sought a fully-auto weapon to achieve more deadly effect?

Interesting info below:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd..._Report_09.pdf

One might conclude, conject, speculate, whatever, and draw some conclusions about California, homicides, guns, and their ban based on some data. I haven't cojitated on it much...

Machine guns are tightly controlled. The only ones used in crimes are either stolen or are guns that have been illegally converted to full auto, methinks. Low low percentage.

Which, makes one wonder...if that's a reasonable model for "other" items...ha ha...

[oldno7]

Still haven't seen anyone argue the merits of Mexico's gun ban.

No need to speculate, numbers are published.

[Iceaxe]

Interesting info below:

Just looking at those stats quickly kinda proves how stupid some of the new proposed laws are... I notice that .223, the cartridge most associated with the AR-15 assault rifle was only used twice. While 22 rimfire, the cartridge most agree should be excluded from gun control was #2 on the list....

[Brian in SLC]

Still haven't seen anyone argue the merits of Mexico's gun ban.
No need to speculate, numbers are published.

Mexico doesn't have a gun ban, per se?

Sounds really restricted though.

Huge amount of guns smuggled into Mexico across the border. I gots personal experience with this, being invited downtown to have a chat with our local ATF here in SLC...

They use AK's, M4's and grenade launchers to kill each other down there, illegally obtained of course.

You think a gob more guns and less restrictions on firearms would solve a bunch of the crime in Mexico? Can I ask what you're smoking, and, did it come from Mexico? Ha ha...

Their homicide rate by firearms per 100k is way higher than us (nearly triple). They got a whole mess a problems down yonder.

Just say no?

[hank moon]

You need to let me take you shooting one of these days.... you will discover there is almost no difference between 30 shots fired with two 15 round mags or three 10 round mags.

Thanks for the offer, Shane. I would love to go with you sometime - I've shot mostly pistols (Glock) and black powder rifles. Very little in the way of modern rifles. It might also be interesting to load up a bunch of rifles and practice walking/running around with them while trying to reload. Though there may be little difference in fire rate between 2 x 15 and 3 x 10, there is the logistics of managing multiple cumbersome weapons and/or mags that can slow things down for the shooter, especially one who is untrained in such maneuvers. Gives folks a chance to take him down while reloading.

Nice that the most recent shooter is still alive and perhaps not a "whacko" - might provide some insight.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2449261.html