Assault Weapons?

[ratagonia]

Easy enough to compare the US to the UK.... just use the official government numbers from both and not the propaganda numbers presented by both the pro and anti gun groups....

It's also easy enough to see where the money and effort to fix the problem should be spent....

This is one of those video's everyone should watch, no matter your current stance on gun control.

Dude....

Nice repost.

And no, you cannot directly compare UK and USA numbers, because they probably don't categorize crimes in exactly the same way...

uh oh, I'm reposting too...

T

[Iceaxe]

No one said it was an exact comparison... but its certainly apples to apples.... so the UK has somewhere between 3 to 4 times the US violent crime rate... how about we call that close enough for discussions.

And the UK comparison was only a small part of the video... care to comment on the rest?

Sent using Tapatalk

[double moo]

How many deaths in the UK last year due to violence related to soccer hooligans? How many in the US? It only makes sense that the predominant view in the US that soccer is for pussies is far better for public safety. Ban Soccer now before we become like them!

[2065toyota]

Is there really anybody that honestly believes that not allowing more than 10 round magazines will actually help. It pretty easy to change multiple magazines after each 10 shots when all the victims are hiding and trying to not get shot. And that's assuming the criminal is obeying the magazine law. Of course there are mass shootings at the schools when there are bright neon signs above the school letting everyone know there isn't anybody to defend them.

[Byron]

Is there really anybody that honestly believes that not allowing more than 10 round magazines will actually help. It pretty easy to change multiple magazines after each 10 shots when all the victims are hiding and trying to not get shot. And that's assuming the criminal is obeying the magazine law. Of course there are mass shootings at the schools when there are bright neon signs above the school letting everyone know there isn't anybody to defend them.

I know, this whole argument by the "do something" crowd is ridiculous.

Did you hear about the woman in Georgia that shot a home intruder? She hid in a closet with her kids and a gun and let him have it in the face when he opened the door...6 rounds. What could have happened if she were unarmed?

The gun control crowd just doesn't understand that there is room for NO DEBATE with us on this...but they try so hard anyways. No grey zone to "compromise" in here, boys and girls.

[Iceaxe]

I know, this whole argument by the "do something" crowd is ridiculous.

I don't believe the "do something" argument is ridiculous.... its just most the proposals are ridiculous. It would be helpful if folks would actually educate themselves and not just believe all the propaganda and scare tactics being used by both sides.

I think most of us agree that better availablity to mental health care and proper enforcement of current laws would be a step forward.



Sent using Tapatalk

[Brian in SLC]

But here in the states there are MANY times where a gun is not involved in the bar fight. I would disagree with your point that chances are you'll be shot. It's still the small minority. How many guns have been fired inside the bar?

Google searches are fun...



http://www.topix.com/forum/city/salt-lake-city-ut/T08D90RJMIS3NLTNO
http://www.kutv.com/news/features/national/stories/vid_1631.shtml
http://www.federalwaymirror.com/news/160545115.html

And from those statistics.... how many ASSAULT RIFLES have been fired inside the bar?

http://www.tangilena.com/view/full_s...es_left_column

Isn't it interesting how the school shooting sparked the debate about how AR-15 rifles are so easily accessible, but it turns out that weapon wasn't used at all? And that has not slowed down the debate at all.

You got a vetted source for that claim? I see whacky sources for it, but, nothing of substance.

This CNN story is from the 19th of December. Sources look pretty solid.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/con...uns/index.html

You're right, though, plenty of bar brawls sans firearms. Just seems like we hear about the local ones when they happen (that Green Street deal with the off duty cop sounded fugly...). Folks get butthurt, just seemed like they used to step outside and resort to fisticuffs. Instead they often head to the car or home to pick up the heat, and, return. Because they can I suppose. Times have seemed to change in that regard. Kids never took guns to school when I was a kid, and, when one pulled a knife in a fight, it made huge news (I remember two in the state of Montana when I was a kid...one across town at a rival high school, and, one in another city...funny...the stories made the rounds because they were so rare).

Anyhoo...I digress. What were we talkin' about again?

[Brian in SLC]

No one said it was an exact comparison... but its certainly apples to apples.... so the UK has somewhere between 3 to 4 times the US violent crime rate... how about we call that close enough for discussions.

And the UK comparison was only a small part of the video... care to comment on the rest?

Watched it again a couple of times. For me, its still apples to oranges.

He talks about the violent crime rate, and, admits the homicide rate is higher in the US. So, he's diluting the debate a bit by focusing on violent crime.

His other points about being able to focus in on exactly where violent crime occurs is interesting, but, not really part of the gun debate, IMHO, at least not specifically.

But, back to comparing the US to the UK. Yeah, they got 3X more violent crime per 100k than we do. Interesting. But...

US murder rate is 4.8/100k. UK is 1.2/100k.

US homicide by firearm rate is 3.2/100k (2009 numbers I think). UK rate is .03/100k. I'm gonna have to do some math here, but...uhh, we have 100X more homicides by firearms? Geez, how come hipster dude didn't mention that?

So, I have a 3X higher chance of gettin' my ass beat in the UK. I have 100 times more chance of gettin' whacked by a gun here.

In the gun debate, which rate has more traction in the arguement?

Sure, you can toss poverty, education, income, all kinds of fluff into the mix and look at data a ton of different ways. But, for me, homicides by firearm per 100k kinda tells me something more than rate of violent crime, which, could be granny hittin' me with her purse (or gettin' beat up with a pipe, etc). Such a wide range of violence out there.

Would I trade an uptick in violent crime, say, 3X for a 100X reduction in gun homicides? Dunno. Something to ponder. Is the fear of being a victim of violent crime enough to justify nearly 10,000 folks a year dying in homicides by firearms?

More to the specific issue du jour, though, mass shootings. If you kinda define it as intent and attempt, what are the rates of it, and, what weapons are used?

I know the media blows this stuff up, but, seems like when these whack jobs head out to slaughter a bunch of innocent folks, they find the firepower they need to do the job. I'm just thinking of the last few...Portland Mall, Colorado's two biggies, CT, Fort Hood, Virginia Tech. All military-esque high capacity fairly lethal items. Not some scoped huntin' rifle. Not a Ruger 10-22. Just seems in every case easy access to fairly lethal firepower. Is that ok? Acceptable? Worthy of debate? Introspection?

Crazy stuff.

[Iceaxe]

Also interesting that violent crimes and homicides have decreased by 50% in the US over the past 20 years.... looks like bar fights just ain't what they used to be.

Funny that both the pro and anti gun groups forget to mention you are 50% safer now than 20 years ago... but it doesn't play into either sides fear based campaigns.

The dude with the US vs UK statics does make the point that his analysis was just scratching the surface based on limited research... but his point that perhaps we are looking in the wrong areas about how to solve the problem is valid.

Any sane person that has even a basic knowledge of the problem has to admit that banning barrel shrouds and pistol grips is not a valid answer and nothing but a waste of time and money.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Sombeech]

Also interesting that violent crimes and homicides have decreased by 50% in the US over the past 20 years....

And that its going UP in the U.K.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Byron]

I think most of us agree that better availablity to mental health care and proper enforcement of current laws would be a step forward.



Sent using Tapatalk

holmes isn't crazy, he's just a moron...do they have a background check for that? In the case of Lanza, he was getting mental health care from the wealthy mother he whacked...sorry Ice, you're beginning to sound like them.

Arm yourselves...that's it.

It seems that this argument, this "debate", this "compromise", this "do something" is just a battle of statistics. Hey you, 50% this! Oh yeah, 78% that! This thread is 30 plus pages and it's getting nowhere...just like the high shaking heads on T.V.

There's only one logical answer here...buy a gun and learn how to shoot it. "More mental health"? What exactly is that supposed to mean? What "existing gun laws" are being broken, or at least need to be beefed up? See Ice, they're starting to wear you down, man.

[accadacca]

[oldno7]

And that its going UP in the U.K.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

[oldno7]

Instead of talking about far away countries, lets talk about a Country we share a border with and how well gun control is working there.

http://www.inegi.org.mx/inegi/conten...comunica29.pdf

[Iceaxe]

I don't think most people in this country understand how poor our mental health care is.... I have a basic understanding from my wife who is a paramedic. She tells me over half the calls she responds to daily are mental. Sit for 5 minutes with her coworkers and listen to their chatter and you will catch on to the problem real fast.

Harris and Klebold (Columbine), Cho (Virginia Tech) along with Lanza (Sandy Hooks) were all in the mental health system at one time before their shooting sprees, to bad they didn't get the help they needed.

Sent using Tapatalk

[2065toyota]

[double moo]

"I know the media blows this stuff up, but, seems like when these whack jobs head out to slaughter a bunch of innocent folks, they find the firepower they need to do the job. I'm just thinking of the last few...Portland Mall, Colorado's two biggies, CT, Fort Hood, Virginia Tech. All military-esque high capacity fairly lethal items. Not some scoped huntin' rifle. Not a Ruger 10-22. Just seems in every case easy access to fairly lethal firepower. Is that ok? Acceptable? Worthy of debate? Introspection?" (Brian in SLC)

I read somewhere that the VA Tech shooter used 2 guns that would not be affected by the ban, and the third one had a mag cap of 16, which means he couldn't have had that magazine - but could have had the gun under the ban. Wiki here notes that one of them was a .22 - actually not as lethal as a Ruger 10-22 because with it you can't hit shit...



"Cho used two firearms during the attacks: a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun.^[13] The shootings occurred in separate incidents, with the first at West Ambler Johnston Hall, during which Cho killed two pupils, and the second at Norris Hall, where the other 31 deaths, including that of Cho himself, as well as all the nonlethal injuries, occurred."

And you kind of need to throw out Fort Hood - -wouldn't you expect a military guy, on a military base, to have military style firearms? And since he was acting in a terrorist capacity... at least he didn't use a suicide bomb - which would most likely have have far more casualties.

[oldno7]

Instead of talking about far away countries, lets talk about a Country we share a border with and how well gun control is working there.

http://www.inegi.org.mx/inegi/conten...comunica29.pdf

Come on----Mexico only has 1 gun store!!!!
They are likely the most gun prohibitive country in the World!!
Why don't we want to mirror their success in keeping guns out of the hands of citizens.
If we keep trying, surely we can be equally as safe as Mexico in 20 years.........

[oldno7]

I guess it could be argued, that despite stiff gun control, Mexicans can still easily obtain guns from obama and holder!

[Sandstone Addiction]

Biden: Obama prepared to take executive action on gun control

By Amie Parnes - 01/09/13 01:03 PM ET

President Obama will likely take executive action in an effort to tamp down the recent rash of gun violence, Vice President Biden said Wednesday.

[FONT=&amp]