Assault Weapons?

[Brian in SLC]

If .223 rimfire is all that is available I don't think cost would be the issue. The 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum has just been re-introduced so we are getting closer to a rimfire .223.

Wow, never heard of that cartridge.

Still not sure .223 is viable in rimfire. But, you're right, where there's a will there's a way...

Which could be said for a lot of things. Mass killings and legislation come to mind...ha ha.

When it warms up, school me on the trap/skeet/sporting clays line...I needs to blow the dust off...

[2065toyota]

I am trying to research each of these to finalize the validity of them, but here is some other info

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.. From 1929 to 1953,
about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
because of gun control: 56 million.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners inAustralia were forced by
new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their
own Government, a program costing Australiataxpayers more than $500
million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3..2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the
past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is
unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politiciansdisseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens
With guns, we are 'citizens''

Without them, we are 'subjects''

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
most Americans were ARMED!
SWITZERLAND ISSUES MOST EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS MOST EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE, and

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY

CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

Just think how powerful our government is getting!

They think these other countries just didn't do it right.

Learn from history.

[Brian in SLC]

I am trying to research each of these to finalize the validity of them, but here is some other info...
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY
CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

Propaganda. Easy enough to poke holes into.

Switzerland's gun homicide rate per 100k folks is .52. Higher than a gob of "civilized" countries. Canada, Germany, Australia, etc etc etc.

If you're looking into Switzerland as a model for gun control per se, the laws governing their use and ownership are an interesting study. Quite a bit more restrictive than in the U.S.

[2065toyota]

"propoganda"

Switzerland - you said .52 - but actually a little higher at .7 but nonetheless:

Canada - 1.8
Germany - .8
Australia - 1.2

[2065toyota]

Switzerland being the lowest actually is incorrect, they are the 6th at .7

Iceland - .3
Japan - .5
Austria - .5
Norway - .6
Slovania - .6


Brazil bringing up the rear at 22.7

In the United States, 1.5% of people reported falling victim to assault over the previous 12 months, lower than the OECD average of 4.0%.

In the United States, 77% of people feel safe walking alone at night, higher than the OECD average of 67%.

[Byron]

Yes, during WWll a Japanese general warned that an invasion of the U.S. would result in their being shot at from "behind every blade of grass".

Bottom line on this thing...if the Principal of that school (who apparently was the first to be killed when she lunged at Lanza) had been armed, it's likely that not a single child would have been killed. Sure, he may have been able to kill her anyway, but at least she would have had a fighting chance. I would imagine that her last thought was "I wish I had a gun". Anyone who disagrees with the logic of that is a fool.

In my opinion, all these people that refuse to own (or even touch) a firearm, yell and scream for them to be restricted from rational, capable people and sneer at the NRA are nothing more than weak, pathetic sheep. Victims, one and all. Go ahead, run in a zig zag pattern or cower under something with your fingers crossed, I reserve the right to shoot back.

Think it'll never happen to you? Yeah, I'm sure they all thought that as well...too bad not a single one of them had a weapon.

[Bootboy]

I get tired of people citing gun control in other countries as a model for the US, the same goes for health care systems. To compare the US to other countries on these issues is absurd. The US has ten times the population of many of these "model" countries, a MUCH more diverse population, a different history, unique traditions, an entirely different culture, a very different and much larger economy, immigration and population growth rates, hell, even geography plays a role. What works for one does not always work for all. An island nation of 30 million can in no way be reasonably compared to the US on any of these issues, they are not simply microcosms of our nation. Way too many factors contributing to our issues to try what others have and reasonably expect similar results in most cases.

[oldno7]

Most stats can be skewed to reflect a position. Thats nothing new, it's called politics.

But--one Question that should be paramount to every citizen in the USA is--

Have you become more or less safe in the last 20 years???

Are you more likely to be a victim of a violent crime, now as opposed to 20 years ago??

Wish I knew how to set up a poll with the last question.(Ice??)

[Iceaxe]

Most stats can be skewed to reflect a position. Thats nothing new, it's called politics.

No NRA members have committed mass shootings... therefore it stands to reason if everyone joins the NRA there will be no more mass shooting. :)

I'm on my phone and can't set up a poll at the moment.


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[Sombeech]

Have you become more or less safe in the last 20 years???

Wish I knew how to set up a poll with the last question.(Ice??)

You'd have to create a new thread to create a poll. The poll options are at the bottom of the new thread write up, and you'll get the selections once you post your message.

Unfortunately, polls with such obvious questions like that will still be skewed in the results. Those who don't agree with the facts will google for the minority of articles (not their own personal experience) and will post reasons why they are less safe, or if there isn't compelling "evidence" easily found, they just won't post at all.

But, we all know this.

[oldno7]

You'd have to create a new thread to create a poll. The poll options are at the bottom of the new thread write up, and you'll get the selections once you post your message.

Unfortunately, polls with such obvious questions like that will still be skewed in the results. Those who don't agree with the facts will google for the minority of articles (not their own personal experience) and will post reasons why they are less safe, or if there isn't compelling "evidence" easily found, they just won't post at all.

But, we all know this.

Ahh, my fair-fro'd-friend, The poll would be on my second question, and there is a definitive answer.(backed by un-disputable facts)Not, conjecture.

Are you more likely to be a victim of a violent crime, now as opposed to 20 years ago??

[Brian in SLC]

Yes, during WWll a Japanese general warned that an invasion of the U.S. would result in their being shot at from "behind every blade of grass".

Not true. Was an Admiral, not a General (supposedly Admiral Yamamoto) but that quote has never been proven to have even the slightest schred of credibility. If you have a source, I'm sure historians would be happy to vet it for you.

In my opinion, all these people that refuse to own (or even touch) a firearm, yell and scream for them to be restricted from rational, capable people and sneer at the NRA are nothing more than weak, pathetic sheep. Victims, one and all. Go ahead, run in a zig zag pattern or cower under something with your fingers crossed, I reserve the right to shoot back.

I kinda put you in the same name calling catagory as my spittle dribbling liberal friends who call all NRA supporters cowards too.

Name calling doesn't really help support a rational arguement to a rational person. I guess I implied who your target audience might be...ha ha.

Which is why some of us are still here I suppose...heavy sigh...

[Brian in SLC]

"propoganda"

Switzerland - you said .52 - but actually a little higher at .7 but nonetheless:

Canada - 1.8
Germany - .8
Australia - 1.2

Your numbers might include suicides?

Suicide by firearm rates per 100,000 people has the Swiss at #4, beat only by the Finns, the U.S. and Montenegro. Interesting.

[Iceaxe]

Honestly I'm not currently a member of the NRA because I think they are a little over the top.... but... I'm thinking I should probably renew my membership just to have a voice that will be heard.

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[Brian in SLC]

Which makes me think...

If you look at deaths from firearms, and, you consider suicide as a component of that..."where's there's a will there's a way", it kinda points to mental health as an even bigger issue. Mass shootings could fit into that as well.

Just like you can't hug a child with nuclear arms (had to toss in a "liberal" phrase, ha ha), one wonders if some folks get a hug, would that prevent some firearm deaths? Oh, the horror!

Maybe our problem in the U.S. is really that we've become afraid of intimacy...and we insulate and distance ourselves with the blanket of comfort our Bill of Rights gives us...

Hey, I'm onto something! I'm gonna go hug a stranger....ha ha...

[oldno7]

And heres the level of campaigning the brady bunch has gone to.

[oldno7]

I can't actually believe they stoop this low, but I haven't seen them dispute it yet.

[oldno7]

I would beg to differ:

http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-2...ion-car-stereo

[Sombeech]

And heres the level of campaigning the brady bunch has gone to.

The gun carrying women's rights activists are soooo confused where to stand on that campaign

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[oldno7]

JFK on 2nd:

"... By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always be important."