Stocks

[accadacca]

Stock market drops again, wiping out 2018 gains for the Dow and S&P 500

[rockgremlin]

Stock market drops again, wiping out 2018 gains for the Dow and S&P 500


Must be a slow news day...:sleeping:

Many folks see an article like this and attribute it to doom -- signs of an eroding economy that is on a downhill slide. Thing is....downturns in the stock market are how money is made. The ebb and flow of the stock market is as natural as the cycles of night and day, or the seasons.

This latest "stock market drop" is really just a "correction," meaning it is just taking a break. It can't go up all the time. Now is a great time to buy, since the fundamental concept behind making money in the stock market is to.....buy low, sell high.

[rockgremlin]

And here we go on the up. Dow rebounds over 400 points.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/25/investing/stock-market-today-dow/index.html

[rockgremlin]

Dow is currently up over 900 points from where it was a week ago.

I think there's a lot of volatility right now (dramatic up and down fluctuations) in anticipation of the midterm elections.


PREDICTION: Wednesday is going to be a BIG day either up or down, depending on the results of tomorrow's elections.

[devo_stevo]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/stocks-advance-as-wall-street-weighs-midterm-election-results/ar-BBPrHFm?li=BBnbfcN

Looks like Wall Street is good with the results.

[rockgremlin]

Dow is up over 1,800 points from the October 29th low of 24,442.

A 1,800 point swing in just 8 trading days. :2thumbs:

[accadacca]

Market gains for 2018 wiped out by plunging stocks

It's the worst Thanksgiving week for the Dow and the S&P since 2011, according to Dow Jones data.

#maga

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/market-gains-2018-wiped-out-plunging-stocks-n938601?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

[rockgremlin]

Market gains for 2018 wiped out by plunging stocks

It's the worst Thanksgiving week for the Dow and the S&P since 2011, according to Dow Jones data.

#maga

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/market-gains-2018-wiped-out-plunging-stocks-n938601?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

The Fearful will see catastrophe, the wealthy will see opportunity.

YMMV

[Iceaxe]

Market gains for 2018 wiped out by plunging stocks

It's the worst Thanksgiving week for the Dow and the S&P since 2011, according to Dow Jones data.

#maga

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/market-gains-2018-wiped-out-plunging-stocks-n938601?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma
Do you have any clue how the stock market works?

It's all about the long term gain and not the short term peaks and valleys. Not to mention I've never seen someone similar to you that is actively cheering against a prosperous economy.

But a little tip a negative nellie like you might want to take advantage of. You can actually make money on stocks by selling short. If you honestly believe stocks are headed for the crapper now you know how to get rich.

FWIW - since Trumps election the stock market is still up 26.7%.

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

The Fearful will see catastrophe, the wealthy will see opportunity.

YMMV
Buy low and sell high. [emoji106]

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/2c4252da6e0245ed6a301125885cfd0c.jpg

[rockgremlin]

It's scenarios like these that are frustrating for the day traders out there:

91225


Dow starts out plunging, and then rallies 600 points in the afternoon. :lobby:

[rockgremlin]

From what I've seen, whenever the Dow trades choppy and erratically there's a large drop just around the corner. And the Dow has been all over the place recently.

I don't see another drastic recession like what occurred in 2008, but there's is a very large pullback coming soon. Maybe a 25% ~ 30% decrease possible?

Bookmarking this for if I'm right. If I'm wrong I'll just delete this post and we can forget I ever said anything. :mrgreen:






Today (12/7/2018) the Dow is at 24,388...

[oldno7]

From what I've seen, whenever the Dow trades choppy and erratically there's a large drop just around the corner. And the Dow has been all over the place recently.

I don't see another drastic recession like what occurred in 2008, but there's is a very large pullback coming soon. Maybe a 25% ~ 30% decrease possible?

Bookmarking this for if I'm right. If I'm wrong I'll just delete this post and we can forget I ever said anything. :mrgreen:


I have money on the sidelines, waiting to put into tech.

My charting suggests the 18th is an important date.

I'll be looking to invest again, around then in tech.

Currently. MJ is on the rise, yesterday should have been a low, still good money here but likely a bit slower pace than prior.

[oldno7]

or----you could just buy bitcoin:naughty:

If I owned bitcoin(never have), I would trade it all in for pot stocks.

[Iceaxe]

I'm investing all my spare cash in hookers and blow... the rest I'll probably just waste on stocks.

[rockgremlin]

Second straight day of over 2% (500 point) decreases.

My crystal ball says a modest correction is coming tomorrow (Tuesday December 18).

[twotimer]

I'm just watching it going boing, boing, boing. I won't be tapping into it for 15 years.

I'll go in and buy some stock when it gets below 20K. Everybody is tapping the equity and they may just get really sloppy.

[Iceaxe]

My crystal ball says a modest correction is coming tomorrow (Tuesday December 18).


It all depends on what the Fed does tomorrow with interest rates.


Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181218/b350af09c4ff6cb791d9e1d5caf0df98.jpg

[rockgremlin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181218/b350af09c4ff6cb791d9e1d5caf0df98.jpg


:lol8::lol8: Here comes Acca with his doom and gloom.

If you look at a graph of the DOW for the last five years you'll notice that we are riding the crest of an unprecedented stock market winning streak. And all along the way we've had bumps in the road -- occasions when the media tried to paint a bleak picture of the stock market -- only to have it come storming back again.

91283


^^^As you can see from this morning's screenshot, the market is bouncing back from those two days of -2%, as predicted.

[uintafly]

It all depends on what the Fed does tomorrow with interest rates.


Climb-Utah.com

I agree with Trump on this. We don't need another interest rate hike right now. Obviously there is a recession looming in the next year or two, but we may as well forestall it as long as possible.

[devo_stevo]

I agree with Trump on this. We don't need another interest rate hike right now. Obviously there is a recession looming in the next year or two, but we may as well forestall it as long as possible.
Something's gotta give with the high housing prices in Utah right now. It's getting nuts.

Also, historically speaking, it happens every few years so I guess we're due again.

[rockgremlin]

Something's gotta give with the high housing prices in Utah right now. It's getting nuts.

Also, historically speaking, it happens every few years so I guess we're due again.

Having just gone through the tortuous process of buying a house in this economy I would agree. Things are WAAAAY too expensive and overpriced right now. But I voiced my concerns early and often about this and I was routinely informed that the housing bubble of today is drastically different to the housing bubble of 2008. The difference being that the housing bubble of 2008 was artificially inflated ~~ much of it was realtors and brokers contributing to an artificial inflation, and then the banks willingly agreeing to offer loans to folks to obviously couldn't afford the debt. The bubble of today is created from the economics of supply and demand. The demand is sky high, but the supply on hand is very low. There just isn't a very robust supply to satisfy the current demand.

That said, I too cannot see how the status quo can be sustained. We were looking at dumpy 2 bed, 1 bath 1500 sq.ft. homes going for over $350,000. That is just insane, and it really is not sustainable. I think another big housing correction is looming.

[devo_stevo]

I think so too. I hope so because I hate the house I'm in, but I can't bring myself to pay what I'd have to to get a better one.

[uintafly]

Having just gone through the tortuous process of buying a house in this economy I would agree. Things are WAAAAY too expensive and overpriced right now. But I voiced my concerns early and often about this and I was routinely informed that the housing bubble of today is drastically different to the housing bubble of 2008. The difference being that the housing bubble of 2008 was artificially inflated ~~ much of it was realtors and brokers contributing to an artificial inflation, and then the banks willingly agreeing to offer loans to folks to obviously couldn't afford the debt. The bubble of today is created from the economics of supply and demand. The demand is sky high, but the supply on hand is very low. There just isn't a very robust supply to satisfy the current demand.

That said, I too cannot see how the status quo can be sustained. We were looking at dumpy 2 bed, 1 bath 1500 sq.ft. homes going for over $350,000. That is just insane, and it really is not sustainable. I think another big housing correction is looming.

Honestly, in the housing market I don't think we will see a contraction anytime soon along the Wasatch Front. Still more people moving here than we have homes for. I doubt will see the prices rise like they have been, but nothing is going to be getting any cheaper. There is a metric shit ton of new apartment units coming on board in the next 18 months, but vacancies are still at historic lows. I have probably financed $70 million in new apartment construction in the past 24 months and will hopefully close another $20mm by the end of March. Lots of investors are finding it better to build new units than buy old buildings with cap rates so low. Eventually, they will get caught up and things will slow, but I doubt it for another 24 months at least. New home construction will probably be strong for at least that long. There just isn't that much available land anymore. I am financing a subdivision in Davis County and the lots are selling for between $140k-$180k for .5-.6 acre lots. The problem is they literally will all be able to see the Bountiful Landfill from their house, are right next to Legacy and have high voltage power lines overhead. Doesn't matter though. They will be sold out before roads are even complete.

The real issue will be if wages don't keep up, the Wasatch Front could turn into San Francisco, where people can't afford to live here.

[rockgremlin]

I have probably financed $70 million in new apartment construction in the past 24 months and will hopefully close another $20mm by the end of March. I am financing a subdivision in Davis County and the lots are selling for between $140k-$180k for .5-.6 acre lots.

Mo' Money Mo' Problems, Amirite?



The real issue will be if wages don't keep up, the Wasatch Front could turn into San Francisco, where people can't afford to live here.

Yeah wouldn't that be a trip? Brigham City and Payson looking more and more attractive.

[devo_stevo]

i've been amazed at the number of people that have moved to Brigham in the last 5 years or so that commute to Salt Lake for work. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of that happening in the next 10 years the way things are going.

It sucks because I like the relative lack of crowds and light traffic here. It'll come to an end one day though.

[rockgremlin]

i've been amazed at the number of people that have moved to Brigham in the last 5 years or so that commute to Salt Lake for work. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of that happening in the next 10 years the way things are going.

It sucks because I like the relative lack of crowds and light traffic here. It'll come to an end one day though.

We looked into Brigham City early on but decided it was too far from SLC....so we moved to North Ogden. :lol8: It's pretty much just as far as Brigham City.

The dude that sold us his house moved to Far West. I couldn't do it -- the mosquitoes are too thick out there since Willard is right next door.

[devo_stevo]

15 minutes is 15 minutes. I understand. If I worked in Salt Lake, there's no way I'd live this far away. I've been spoiled. I basically have only worked 5 minutes away from home at any job I've ever had, so the thought of a long commute just kills me.

The current job is great though. I could go anywhere I want to as long as I've got a decent internet connection. That's made me look into different locations that I would never consider otherwise.

[Iceaxe]

#FirstWorldProblems

[twotimer]

The bubble of today is created from the economics of supply and demand. The demand is sky high, but the supply on hand is very low. There just isn't a very robust supply to satisfy the current demand.

BINGO!...we're experiencing the same thing her in Denver. They didn't build jack shit for 5 solid years. Our cities are going to get as thick as they can possibly get.

Prices? I think homes that cost less than 200K absolutely must show up. Starter homes. I think they'll be built out in the boondocks. There has to be a market for couples that make around 120K a year. They want to buy.

If you're single and you make less than 100K and you want to live in the city? You're screwed...insofar as buying a place.

I paid $61,000 for this condo in '93. It's worth nearly 250K right now. I bought 4 others in this complex long ago, all less than 100K. They're rentals. Can't do that now, that's for damn sure.

If I were to advise someone young, I'd say move to a mid/largish city where you can make money and buy a place for less than $175...a condo, a house...and then sit on it, one way or another. Does't take a rocket scientist, just time and having someone else pay for it.

Then again, I know some people that just rent. They've never bought and have a way of managing their money that works for them. Look up "renting vs. buying".

[Sandstone Addiction]

Brigham City and Payson looking more and more attractive.

South Utah County is out of control.

Median home prices:

Payson $354,000

Salem $411,000

Springville $430,000

Although Levan is still a bargain at $229,000,

realtor.com

[rockgremlin]

^^^ That's crazy. Last summer we were looking into Payson and it was hovering around $290K - $300K.

[accadacca]

Merry Christmas!!! Lowest point of the year!!!

Dow closes down 352 points after Fed hikes rates

[rockgremlin]

Yup, there's this repeating pattern of the Dow rallying up and then falling back, rallying up and then falling back. This lack of direction occurs when neither the bears nor the bulls are in charge, and is frequently a prelude to a large pullback. I've been predicting this for a little while now. The slide will probably extend into tomorrow, and then stay down during the holidays next week as the market explores a bottom.

[Iceaxe]

The Fed did stocks no favors today...

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/e104fca3007d8c7bae840179a47e83e6.jpg

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/fb280075e2d5e475b89e438c746bb994.jpg

[twotimer]

Ahhh...everybody's just cashing in. A whole lot of people made a ton of money in the last two years. Junior wants the GI Joe with the kung-fu grip.

[rockgremlin]

Today logged the largest single day gain ever. But beware the dead-cat bounce that may come tomorrow.


91305

[Iceaxe]

How come Accadacca never stops by to post that info?

Hillary was asking...

[rockgremlin]

How come Accadacca never stops by to post that info?

Hillary was asking...


:lol8: I was wondering the same thing.

After the Dow topped 1,000 I logged on expecting to see a post or two from Acca proclaiming a monstrously bullish day for the stock market and surprised that there wasn't even a blip out of him about the matter.


It's like he's the CNN of Bogley...

[accadacca]

One good day isn't a trend. This month is still on pace for the worst December since 1931.

[uintafly]

Let's just hope the Trump Stock Crash doesn't lead to the Trump Recession.

[Iceaxe]

Let's just hope the Trump Stock Crash doesn't lead to the Trump Recession.

Politically what happens in the stock market doesn't really mean anything right now.... It's what it does in the first 9 months of 2020 that will matter.

YMMV

Want to get rich quick? Buy stocks when they are low and sell them when they are high.....

:popcorn:

[rockgremlin]

Want to get rich quick? Buy stocks when they are low and sell them when they are high.....

:popcorn:


Yes, BUT....


Beware the commissions. Most online stock trading platforms charge up to $10 per trade. Those fees can add up, and cancel out whatever gains you may have made.

[Iceaxe]

Yes, BUT....


Beware the commissions. Most online stock trading platforms charge up to $10 per trade. Those fees can add up, and cancel out whatever gains you may have made.
You need to change brokers as I pay no where near that... Plenty of online discount brokers so you don't get raped with no lube.

YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

Who's your broker? I started back in 2009 with TD Ameritrade...back when stocks were trading at bargain basement prices as a result of the Great Recession. I purchased Ford stock for around 0.50 a share. Great time to jump into the stock market.

But I quickly learned the commissions were juicing my profits and had to back off.

[Iceaxe]

Charles Schwab is where I trade. I believe they are $4.95 a trade regardless of how many shares you trade.

But I don't pay even that as I've had 5 accounts there for over 40 years that now have a sizable balance and some grandfathered commission rates and rules.

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

On cue...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190101/86cfcabb02da269b50ffa54d3d5941f2.jpg

[Iceaxe]

On cue...

That's predictable, and will not change until the government shutdown is over and the up coming meetings with China are a done deal... in other words talk to me in a month.

Just curious accadacca, what's it like always cheering for your country to lose?



Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

No cheering, just reporting the facts.

[Iceaxe]

No cheering, just reporting the facts.
No... you're cheering...

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

So accadacca... if you're not cheering against the US why don't you ever post the positives? Why do you only post the negatives?

Stocks pull a U-turn and soar after jobs report, trade talks
https://www.ksl.com/article/46461289/stocks-pull-a-u-turn-and-soar-after-jobs-report-trade-talks

FWIW - If your beloved Apple wasn't tanking at the moment these numbers would be even higher.

[emoji631]

[rockgremlin]

91357


800 point rally, Yowza! Next week is gonna be interesting.

[Iceaxe]

800 point rally, Yowza! Next week is gonna be interesting.

If the China talks scheduled for next week fall in the US's favor the stock market should skyrocket.

I hope so as I dumped $50k into stocks on Wednesday.... Buy low... sell high... live the good life... :2thumbs:

[rockgremlin]

Damnit I knew I should've bought a small portion of Sears stock just out of sheer morbid lunacy. I was oh so tempted to dive in for a few hundred shares last week. Too bad I didn't....:facepalm1:


91387

[Iceaxe]

Damnit I knew I should've bought a small portion of Sears stock just out of sheer morbid lunacy. I was oh so tempted to dive in for a few hundred shares last week. Too bad I didn't....:facepalm1:


Don't worry... you'll get a least one more chance as Sears is swirling around the toilet bowl over the next couple of days.

Since Sears sold off the very profitable Craftsmen Tools I no longer care.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161004/e4141d8ebdc4adc00ca1bf591b9f66d1.jpg

[rockgremlin]

Don't worry... you'll get a least one more chance as Sears is swirling around the toilet bowl the next couple of days..


Yeah but a 30% increase (at one point it was nearing 40%) is tough to miss out on.

Folks should post in this thread stocks they have a hunch will pop soon. Or at least PM me. :haha:

[rockgremlin]

91475


Sears bounces another 56%.

[oldno7]

Bought Platinum again this morning.(PPLT)
It is an ETF based on it's actual possession of platinum bars kept in vaults.

My total allocation of any precious metal stocks is right around 10% of my current portfolio.

[Iceaxe]

The stock market has not started a year this strong in over 30 years... that is all.


Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

Yeah, I'm optimistic that this year will continue in the same direction as the last 2.

[rockgremlin]

The market pulled back briefly there, but it appears another rally is underway. I think the market will now proceed to test the 26,000 point threshold that it reached a year ago at this time. If Trump can prevail on the government shutdown/Wall issue and we end the stalemate with China I think it will propel the market close to 30K.

[rockgremlin]

What's your most productive Cannabis ETF? I stumbled onto HMLSF, but am considering others.

[oldno7]

What's your most productive Cannabis ETF? I stumbled onto HMLSF, but am considering others.

I have traded HMLSF in the past a bit, I didn't like it for a return, compared to picking your own stocks, individually.

IE: lots of good pot stocks out there and a lot of duds, HMLSF takes in an assortment of both.

[oldno7]

If I was looking for a good ETF I'd go platinum, that should be a no brainer for a geology engineer/double platinum poster.

[rockgremlin]

Sears stock up another 31% today to $1.21/share.

Just imagine if you'd have purchased a couple of thousand shares a few weeks back when it was at $0.16 cents a share? :facepalm1: Almost 8X increase. Jeez...

[rockgremlin]

Sears stock up another 36% today to $1.92/share.

At the end of December 2018, it was right around 16 cents a share, and swirling around the toilet bowl. And now look.

If you would've dropped $500 on this stock back on December 28, you'd be $5,500 richer today....a 12X increase!!! :facepalm1: I mean, I know this stock is a turd, but still....it sure is enticing.

I have adopted a sure fire method to make this stock crash back down to 0.16 cents a share -- just buy a bunch of it. If I bought that stock today it's a guarantee it would crash tomorrow.

[oldno7]

You know better than to buy/sell on a whim.

Plan a trade/trade a plan

[rockgremlin]

Sears up another 37% today to $2.59/share. It started 2019 at $0.20 cents/share. That's a 13X increase and climbing.

I'm gonna stop this madness and buy in.

You watch -- by tomorrow at this time it will have crashed.

[oldno7]

rock must have bought---It's down almost $1 from todays high:roflol:

[rockgremlin]

rock must have bought---It's down almost $1 from todays high:roflol:


91887

[rockgremlin]

Holy Crap!!!!!

Sears went from UP 40% to DOWN 14% in less than 2 hours!!!!

See how cursed I am???!!! :eek2:

[oldno7]

Holy Crap!!!!!

Sears went from UP 40% to DOWN 14% in less than 2 hours!!!!

See how cursed I am???!!! :eek2:

see how un disciplined you are..

trading penny stocks of bankrupt companies is no way to go through life...:facepalm1:

[rockgremlin]

see how un disciplined you are..

trading penny stocks of bankrupt companies is no way to go through life...:facepalm1:

:lol8: :lol8: I didn't actually pull the trigger on it (thankfully), but I was tempted.


Now I'm glad I didn't. It got waaaay too oversold there before it crashed.

[uintafly]

Since it dropped I guess now is the time for you to jump on board.

[oldno7]

In all likelyhood, dow should at a minimum, reach 28,186, on this move up and probably closer to 30,000

[Iceaxe]

You know stocks are doing good when Accadacca and his cheerleading for failure disappears from the thread...

LMAO

[Sandstone Addiction]

In all likelyhood, dow should at a minimum, reach 28,186, on this move up and probably closer to 30,000

Was this fueled by the National Emergency Declaration?

[oldno7]

Was this fueled by the National Emergency Declaration?


Dang, Dave, I wish I could say.

I'm more of a technical trader than a fundamental one.

Technically it took out my major time/price point, that leaves 28,186 as next target, which is a 23.6% projection from current all time high.

Fibonacci/Gann and stuff:mrgreen:

[oldno7]

Bought Platinum again this morning.(PPLT)
It is an ETF based on it's actual possession of platinum bars kept in vaults.

My total allocation of any precious metal stocks is right around 10% of my current portfolio.

A pretty good run here

[Iceaxe]

My stock portfolio is up over 15% for the year to date. The DJIA is up over 12.5% for the year to date. The stock market is on track to break records in the near future... That is all...

[twotimer]

15.8% here. If Trump gets re-elected, I may be able to retire outright...meaning I don't have to work AT ALL within 3 years. My IRA has been growing steadily since I started funding it so many years ago, but having a business friendly administration really makes a difference. I started my IRA when I was 26...but my dad explained to me what compound interest was when I was just 20. I had to wait to sow my wild oats.

Who in their right mind would vote against this? Folks with no savings in the market, I guess. Stupid millennials.

[Iceaxe]

Preaching to the choir... I started an IRA when I was about 24. I was also calculating my retirement the other day if the Trump train keeps rolling.

I taught both my kids about IRA's and they have begun contributing at a young age, it's a huge deal, but few young people understand compound interest, most are waiting for all the Bernie free shit.

[oldno7]

I was up 58% YTD

Gave a little back last week.

I am holding a particular stock right now that should put me well beyond that mark in the next few weeks.

[Floyd33]

I promised myself, stocks never again :nono: It's almost like gambling guys, believe me. You think you will never lose, you always want more but if you lose, you can lose everything you have. After I lost two houses and lots of money I started to look for a more reliable market and I think there is more reliable options like Berlin commercial real estate (https://tranio.com/commercial/germany/berlin/). At least I sleep better since I started to invest in real estate.

[oldno7]

Whoaaa, Berlin commercial realestate:slobber:

Have you got a website I can sign up on?

I only have $2mil. to start, is that enough?

I can send it today if that works for you..

[rockgremlin]

I promised myself, stocks never again :nono: It's almost like gambling guys, believe me. You think you will never lose, you always want more but if you lose, you can lose everything you have. After I lost two houses and lots of money I started to look for a more reliable market and I think there is more reliable options like Berlin commercial real estate (https://tranio.com/commercial/germany/berlin/). At least I sleep better since I started to invest in real estate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


^^^This has become the official response for all of the recent Eurotrash spam that has flooded onto Bogley as of late...:lol8:

[oldno7]

I don't know if you still have any available but if you have some bordello sites, I'd be interested in a tour prior to purchase.

This is a no brainer, please take my US dollars...

[twotimer]

I promised myself, stocks never again :nono: It's almost like gambling guys, believe me. You think you will never lose, you always want more but if you lose, you can lose everything you have. After I lost two houses and lots of money I started to look for a more reliable market and I think there is more reliable options like Berlin commercial real estate (https://tranio.com/commercial/germany/berlin/). At least I sleep better since I started to invest in real estate.Your avatar is the bomb, dude. People used to tease me because I was a huge Queen fan in the '70s.

I dig the black and white, somewhat PLATINUM hue you've got going there, too.

[oldno7]

Stocks are poised to take out all time highs, across the board(DOW,NAS, S&P)

Since this looks imminent, I believe we will progress up Until Sept. Early Oct.

Potential, likely targets for the indices are this:

DOW--28,187
28,957
29,571
30,188

S&P--
3080
3167
3237
3307

Nas--

8126
8390
8603
8815

These #'s are based off Fibonacci price projections.
The date that keeps coming up for time projection is 10-02

I look for time and price to coincide, then exit a trade.

[oldno7]

Nasdaq--New all time high

DOW--500 pts below new all time high

S&P--New all time high




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpkoH4dPTdc

[Iceaxe]

Nobody knows how these trade negotiations are going to affect market reaction, so all the brokers are bracing for the worst...They've got the storm shutters up....They're battening down the hatches...Storm approaching.

In case you haven't seen it, the broker just sent out a notice that it will be increasing the margin to $2000.00 for the E-mini contracts on the over night session. Normally, our margin is $500.00, but when they're anticipating some wild volatility, they'll increase the margin amount temporarily....They're going to evaluate it before the US market opens in the morning....As I understand it, this increase goes into effect at 4pm ET....so, it won't affect us at all....BUT, we'll see what effect these trade talks have on the markets...Already, we've seen just the anticipation alone cause high volatility all this week....and the brokers are really good about anticipating severe volatility.....so this has me a bit worried what we'll find in the morning....

If the conditions are so bad that they keep the $2000.00 margin in place, believe me, those are conditions you don't want to be trading in anyway, since they have a very high threshold for raising margins......If they kept the $2000.00 margin in place in the morning, that means that things are absolutely insane.....

I think it's just precautionary because it is an unknown right now....My suspicions are that it probably won't be as bad as we might expect....but then, you never know....Market reactions are always over the top to things....Remember, markets are driven mainly by irrational human emotion. So, any reaction will be overly dramatic....It could also blow over like no big deal as well, if negotiations go peacefully.....So, we'll see.....Hope Trump makes a win win deal for everyone....I think he will.

[oldno7]

Looks like a large drop in the DOW, coming this morning.

[rockgremlin]

Looks like a large drop in the DOW, coming this morning.


Investors be like:


https://www.manzanillosun.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/%E2%80%9CThe-Sky-is-Falling%E2%80%9D-Chicken-Little1.jpg

https://d1yhils6iwh5l5.cloudfront.net/charts/resized/52094/large/12.08.2017_chicken_little_cartoon.png

[oldno7]

I believe we have another 1000 pts to shed(24,332ish) in the dow, then new highs.

[accadacca]

Posted by a friend...don’t flame me. Seems like we are on a downward trend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190604/5f3df370f5c4fa5ff69c91a9a945cf17.jpg

[rockgremlin]

Show me the same comparison but with the Dow and/or Nasdaq.

[Iceaxe]

Obama wasn't hitting records, just regaining lost ground. Look at a chart for the last 20 years and you'll see the flaw in cherry picking a specific timeline.

Bottomline Obama wasn't creating wealth, he was repaying the piggy bank.

[Iceaxe]

This should show what I mean.... that huge ass dip at the bottom is where your pal begins his data point, which ignores the billions in lost wealth up to that point in time.

And to be fair a big chuck of that loss of wealth is to be blamed on Bush 43, But Obama was never able to create wealth, he was only able to regain lost wealth.... so you pals chart is apples to oranges....

92785

[accadacca]

FWIW, here is the article he cited.

http://fortune.com/2019/06/03/stock-market-trump-obama-sp-500/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20190604&fbclid=IwAR0fZss7M0vUA1uEFsVfikmSLcfNTqIE_HziErmeH GL1rd64KmKGbaQWEpY

[rockgremlin]

...Obama was never able to create wealth


It's because he didn't have a magic wand. :haha:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/281936-obama-to-trump-what-magic-wand-do-you-have

[Iceaxe]

It's because he didn't have a magic wand. :haha:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/281936-obama-to-trump-what-magic-wand-do-you-have
Funny that Trumps magic wand ended up just being a telephone.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW, here is the article he cited.

http://fortune.com/2019/06/03/stock-market-trump-obama-sp-500/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20190604&fbclid=IwAR0fZss7M0vUA1uEFsVfikmSLcfNTqIE_HziErmeH GL1rd64KmKGbaQWEpYI don't give a shit what he referenced... I gave you facts. The chart I post is not cherry picked, it's just a simple chart of the past 20 years. Any idiot should be able to read it.

[BasinCruiser]

ALso, weren't Obama's 'gains' largely inflated due to bail-outs footed by taxpayers? How well would those gains have been without dumping billions of tax payer $ into the market to help recover from the recession?

[oldno7]

Correlation doesn't equal causation,ie.

obama came on the seen during a great depression, that is not argued.

The stock market---not the country, rebounded, not due to any program or regulation put in place by xero.

The country had record high inflation(printing too much money), and a shrinking GDP

Those things measure the status of a countries prosperity.

Bailing out GM was a fail, they're right back in the same boat now(kicking the can down the road is not considered sound policy)

Sending Billions of dollars to iran, does nothing to stimulate the economy, the inverse could be argued.

Letting solyndra walk with 500 million, is not sound policy that stimulates the economy.

On the other hand--Trump has enacted policy after policy on trade and tariffs, doing what no other of the past 4 presidents, were smart enough to do(he has a magic wand)

The economy is booming BECAUSE of Donald Trump, not in spite of him as in the case of obama.

[Iceaxe]

Looks like we're about to make more history in the stockmarket today.

This should be fun watching the Trumpian up trends.....Try as they might, Democrats can't seem to talk this economy down and keep it contained.....Investors know what's up...

[dougrz]

Try as they might, Democrats can't seem to talk this economy down and keep it contained.....Investors know what's up...

The key fact Dems/leftists/socialists don't understand about tax cuts, and specifically corp tax cuts as done here, is the compounding effect. If the cut was $300 billion worth in year 1 (or whatever it was), that is infinitely more valuable as it compounds transaction after transaction, year after year, than merely $300 billion in spending. They fundamentally do not get that.

[Iceaxe]

That BOOM you heard today was the major stock indexes setting all time record highs.

Is Obama still trying to claim credit for our record setting economy? Asking for a friend.

[rockgremlin]

That BOOM you heard today was the major stock indexes setting all time record highs.

Is Obama still trying to claim credit for our record setting economy? Asking for a friend.

....unless you're investing in cannabis stocks, which are currently in the middle of a three month downturn. :roll:

I think the cannabis sector will probably bounce back this Fall, just in time for the holidays. For now, it ain't pretty.

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/b41da69b366a97b1f4bf4e7865f72a98.jpg

[oldno7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emdzsz_XvfA
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/b41da69b366a97b1f4bf4e7865f72a98.jpg

[rockgremlin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/b41da69b366a97b1f4bf4e7865f72a98.jpg


https://aturennyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/panic-attack-first-aid.jpg

https://www.verywellmind.com/thmb/JHob0o_Mm8qQoeGeUTG4YDLUsX4=/768x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/GettyImages-539770913-569c10ab5f9b58eba4a76d28.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/www.jennifershannon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Panic-Image.jpg?resize=466%2C349&ssl=1

[Iceaxe]

Good time to buy stocks!


Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

Looks like stocks are going to be on sale.

[Iceaxe]

With today's stockmarket panic my stock portfolio is now only up 17% for the year to date.... Hahaha....

I'm shopping this low for good buys... YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/b41da69b366a97b1f4bf4e7865f72a98.jpg^^^So where is old Negative Nellie when the stock market goes on an upwards terror?


[emoji631]

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

Yup -- up over 400 points today so far. :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

Old Negative Nellie should be entering in 3... 2... 1...

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

Old Negative Nellie should be entering in 3... 2... 1...

Climb-Utah.com

Dow plummets 800 points as recession worries intensify, bond market raises red flag. Worst day of the year.

[rockgremlin]

We're headed into a recession? How so? Growth is still strong, and unemployment still low.

[oldno7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emdzsz_XvfA

[accadacca]

93090

[oldno7]

I'm kinda new at this, what is the relationship with your chart and the stock market?

I can't read it very well, some kind of a spread?

It would help when posting charts to give some kind of analysis.

[twotimer]

I think it's a chart that measures the Dow in 1/1000 of a point...something like that. Just enough so it looks scary.

At 56 years old, I've learned a lot about myself and a lot about other people. Seems to me that some folks seem to like hurting themselves.

Anyway...I bet it jumps right back up tomorrow. A whole bunch of people made a lot of money today. This will likely happen off and on 'till X-mas. Jr. wants the G.I. Joe with the kung fu grip.

[Iceaxe]

Stocks go up and stocks go down.... if you want to make money buy low and sell high...

Personally I'm not worried about the current US economy... This dip has everything to do with China and German economy's swirling the toliet bowl. Foreign money suddenly poured into the US bond market as a safe harbor. The idiots that just read and react to charts and micro trends will figure it out shortly and it will bounce back up. There is no reason for stocks to plunge today outside of panic and liberal wishful thinking.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

If you're wringing your hands and fretting that the U.S. is on the verge of plunging into another recession abyss.....don't.

The type of recession that is allegedly in the works is a very brief one that will not last more than a few weeks/months before springing back up, stronger than ever. Here's an article that will explain this better than I can, complete with fancy charts and graphs:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-the-yield-curve-inverts-heres-how-the-stock-market-tends-to-perform-since-1978-2019-08-14


So if accadacca is worried that his kid's college fund is getting flushed down the crapper, he can rest easier knowing that this is more than likely just normal market movements at best, and a very minor and short-lived mini-recession at worst. :2thumbs:

[oldno7]

Would still be nice if you post a chart to make a point---Identify the point you are trying to make.

How else do us poor folks learn...

[dougrz]

From rock's article:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/0ad046c9fa91f5ff984da2e325de71ed.jpg

[rockgremlin]

Would still be nice if you post a chart to make a point---Identify the point you are trying to make.

How else do us poor folks learn...

I did. The article I posted has several charts with explanations.

[accadacca]

Here’s the commentary from a friend of mine who is a Trump hater...


This morning, the U.S. yield curve inverted for the first time since 2007. This development has preceded every U.S. recession over the past 45 years. It's a warning sign, and the market is tanking again in response.

The 2017 tax cut for billionaires flopped. Government spending far outpaced revenue the last two years. The U.S. debt has grown at the fastest pace in 75 years since Trump took office. And Trump's multi-front trade war has done significant damage to the economy and to U.S. agriculture markets. Dropping out of TPP and bullying the Fed into rate cuts were disastrous moves. So was ignoring market volatility and global warning signs. A lot of bad decisions and failed policies the past three years to get us here.

We've never faced a recession with this amount of debt, with the Fed backed into a corner with so little room to maneuver, and with so many of our trade alliances in ashes.

[Iceaxe]

^^^Someone is watching to much CNN and The View.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

So, is your friend an economist or just a Trump hater? I agree with Ice here, whenever folks publish doom and gloom it's usually because they have an agenda and they really don't know what they're talking about.

I can recall when Trump was elected everybody predicted the stock market would collapse overnight and it did just the opposite.


Looks like that "tanking" market is up 100 points this morning...

[Scott Card]

The inverted bond market may be an indicator of a recession to come. One annalist on the radio stated this morning that worry is when it remains this way for 3-4 months. Check back in three months.

[Iceaxe]

Acca is like my brother.... he watches CNN all day long and then actually believes the sky is falling.

If you really believe #FakeNews then now would be a great time to dump all stocks and invest in Gold. You would bank enough coin to never have to work again if CNN's prediction (wish?) were to come true.

[rockgremlin]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51xsP18ZPhL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81%2BWGocD7DL._AC_UL320_SR208,320_.jpg

https://assets.angelpub.com/images/2019/09/tdl-gold-spike-historic-55378.png


^^^That last one...:roflol:

[Iceaxe]

The Gold graph is funny..... Looks like something from CNN's morning Trump doom and gloom forecast...

But look at gold's price in the last economic meltdown of 2009, and think how much you could have made if you had dumped all your assets and bought Gold in 2006. You would have banked double in just a couple of years.

[Iceaxe]

Deje vu... let me explain what #FakeNews is currently attempting to do....

This is getting to be just like near the end of Bush's 2nd term when the media convinced the people we were in a recession long before it actually happened so Obama would be voted in as president.

It was a self fulfilling prophecy because when you tell people enough that the economy is crashing, they will spend less which will lead us into a real recession.

Now, they are doing it in hopes Trump won't get reelected.

Here's a Google News search ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=recession&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-xOWYpYPkAhVRPn0KHU_qBm0Q_AUIESgB&biw=1366&bih=609

Kudos to Trump for pointing out the media is trying to create a recession so a Democrat will be elected in 2020.

If only Dubya Bush had the guts to say that when they did it to him so Obama would be elected.

[rockgremlin]

Trump "doomed" and gold to go through the roof as the next major recession looms:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/FBA4ADD0-BF63-11E9-845C-4873AD0947CA

^^^ Posted so we can all have a hearty chuckle when Trump is re-elected in 2020. :lol8:

[twotimer]

Better stock up on rice and beans...maybe buy some extra ammo, too. Gonna get ugly.

[accadacca]

Thirty-four percent of economists surveyed, in a report published on Monday, said they believe a slowing economy will tip into recession in 2021.

That's up from 25 percent in a survey taken in February. Only 2 percent of those polled expect a recession to begin this year, while 38 percent predict that it will occur in 2020.

[Iceaxe]

34% isn't a great percentage to have on your side. To put it in perspective 24% believe in Big Foot.

YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

34% + 38% = 72% believe it will happen in the next 2 years. Did I read that right?

[rockgremlin]

Thirty-four percent of economists surveyed, in a report published on Monday, said they believe a slowing economy will tip into recession in 2021.

That's up from 25 percent in a survey taken in February. Only 2 percent of those polled expect a recession to begin this year, while 38 percent predict that it will occur in 2020.


It's been mentioned before, but this may very well be a "self-fulfilling prophecy" that will happen not necessarily because the economy is doing poorly, but because if you talk about something for so long eventually it materializes.

The power of suggestion is real.

^^^That recession post I made earlier was not serious. The guy that made the claim that Trump is "doomed" and that the next major recession is looming is a well known gold investor. So it's in his best interest that stocks suffer so that gold does well. He's a gold pundit -- he's trying to prop up gold because that's what he's paid to do.

[rockgremlin]

34% + 38% = 72% believe it will happen in the next 2 years. Did I read that right?

Well, personally I don't believe it. The key economic factors are still strong right now - home prices, employment, stock market, etc.

If the next recession happens, so what? It's more than likely that it won't rise to the magnitude of the Great Recession of 2008. And I'd much rather see Trump in the White House during a recession than Kamala Harris. Could you just imagine?

[devo_stevo]

Well, if you look at it from a numbers perspective, we are due for one already. According to the Wikipedia, the longest time between recessions in the history of the USA is 10 years from March of 1991 to March 2001.Currently, we have matched that as the last recession officially ended in June of 2009. So it's not a stretch to say that it'll happen sooner or later. It's a part of the cycle that just happens. The problem here is that the only thing to trigger it this time is just political bull crap that it causing people to freak out.

There are some simple things that we can all do to help us survive one though. Just don't spend all the money you make. Save some. Don't get into debt for stupid stuff. Don't buy too much house. All simple stuff that if we all just did that, and a few other things, we'd probably not even have recessions.

All this means that we'd have to take responsibility for our own actions, though. So it's not going to happen.

[accadacca]

I’ve seen many people living high on the hog for the last several years...and I don’t think they’ve really got the money.

[Iceaxe]

If you believe we are heading into recession then put your money where your mouth is and you'll get rich.

It's just as easy to bet the economy will go into recession as it is to bet it will prosper.

Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

I’ve seen many people living high on the hog for the last several years...and I don’t think they’ve really got the money.
Agreed. There is a lot of that happening. I said it in 2008, and I'll say it next time. Mortgage companies and banks never once held a gun to someones head and said you have to sign up for this house payment that's 50% of your take home pay for the month or more. The people buying those houses did it to themselves.

Like I said. Personal responsibility. Accountability. Words people are afraid of, and run far away from.

[Iceaxe]

34% + 38% = 72% believe it will happen in the next 2 years. Did I read that right?You just failed Math 101.... hahaha...

In February 38% of those surveyed predicted a 2021 recession... in the recent survey only 34%, of the same panel, predicted a 2021 recession. In other words many experts are jumping off the 2021 recession bandwagon. #FAKENEWS is trying to spin the facts, as usual to make it look like 74%, but you can't count the same donut twice when buying a dozen donuts.

That we will eventually have a recession is 100%.

And here is the link to the numbers since it appears you don't know how to post links or do math.


https://www.ksl.com/article/46620370/74-of-economists-in-survey-see-us-recession-by-end-of-2021

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

34% + 38% = 72% believe it will happen in the next 2 years. Did I read that right?And Fox News was have a field day this morning with #FAKENEWS and how they can't do math and are attempting to push the economy into recession as that's now the only way to beat Trump.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

I’ve seen many people living high on the hog for the last several years...and I don’t think they’ve really got the money.


Nope, you're right on the money there. Many, many folks who portray an image of wealth are not wealthy....but they have a LOT of debt and decent credit.

[devo_stevo]

Actual wealth is very different from what most people think it is. Basically, if you have a lot of nice stuff, people will think that you're wealthy. You might be. A lot of people are. That being said, if you lose your income for a month and you're unable to pay your bills, it doesn't matter how much stuff you have, you're NOT wealthy.

And credit scores are not an indicator of wealth. They are merely a measure of how much debt you have and how you relate to it.

[Iceaxe]

Actual wealth is very different from what most people think it is.

^^^THIS^^^

Keep this in mind when Democrats say they are going to tax the rich to pay for all the free shit they promise... there is a very good chance you are the rich they are talking about...

If you are worth $1.2 million you are in the top 10% of wealthy in the US.

If you are worth $500,000 you are in the top 20% of wealthy in the US.

If you are worth $280,000 you are in the top 30% of wealthy in the US.

I'm guessing a large number on Bogley are in that top 30%, I know more then a few are in the top 10%.

[emoji631]





Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

Yup. If you think that the cost of living is high now, wait until we have all of the "free" stuff being promised by the current crop of politicians pandering for votes by the weak minded among us. You won't believe how much it costs to get things for nothing. At least Bernie's honest about taxing the middle class for it. The rest of them will just do it without telling you.

[twotimer]

2021 huh? Now they're telling us that after Trump is re-elected THEN the recession will hit. Man, these people are all over the friggin' place.

[twotimer]

I’ve seen many people living high on the hog for the last several years...and I don’t think they’ve really got the money.Plenty of people are living up to the max with the credit...so what? '08 was an anomaly. I really don't think that a majority of voters are willing to flush what has been happening in the last two years. Too many people have made (and spent) some real money. The Democrats offer nothing but pain.

I disagree with the '08 recession "ending" in June of '09. That's nonsense. People froze in place for a few months but real work didn't really get going again until at least '15...took off big when Trump got in, of course. Ever heard of the "crane barometer"? Lotsa cranes in the last two years, especially.

Trump 2020...unless we all start shooting at each other before then, eh?

[accadacca]

You just failed Math 101.... hahaha...

In February 38% of those surveyed predicted a 2021 recession... in the recent survey only 34%, of the same panel, predicted a 2021 recession. In other words many experts are jumping off the 2021 recession bandwagon. #FAKENEWS is trying to spin the facts, as usual to make it look like 74%, but you can't count the same donut twice when buying a dozen donuts.

That we will eventually have a recession is 100%.

And here is the link to the numbers since it appears you don't know how to post links or do math.


https://www.ksl.com/article/46620370/74-of-economists-in-survey-see-us-recession-by-end-of-2021

Climb-Utah.com

Every article I’ve read (including the link you shared) says 74% chance by 2021. I’m not very good at math, but I think that’s out of 100.

[Iceaxe]

Every article I’ve read (including the link you shared) says 74% chance by 2021. I’m not very good at math, but I think that’s out of 100.

This is the problem with Liberals, they don't think for themselves and reason things out to a logical endgame. Liberals live in an echo chamber and just repeat what they heard.

I'm telling you again their math doesn't add up because you can only count a person once. If you can't math I can understand why you are confused.

The big news that the mainstream news should be reporting is that 4% few economists think we are heading to a 2021 recession, and that the economists that do believe we are heading into a recession have moved their prediction back one year.... that's the big news...

Anyhoo.... it doesn't matter. If we don't have a recession in the next 15 month's Trump is a lock for a second term.

YMMV

[devo_stevo]

I'll just put this here. We need to stop talking ourselves into a recession. Like it or not, you're responsible for your economic welfare. Not the president or congress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzh9isw06TI

[rockgremlin]

Strong words from a reputable source -- Bank of America CEO calls BS on looming recession:


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-of-americas-ceo-has-one-simple-reason-why-he-doesnt-see-a-recession-looming-2019-08-21



‘But what’s going to make that happen is the underling U.S. consumer. And the underlying consumer is doing well and making more money, they're employed; and more importantly, they are spending more money.’

Brian Moynihan, Bank of America CEO

[Iceaxe]

The US stock market is unbelievably resilient....

Do you realize how many forces and factions are trying to kill this market, including the Democrat party and the red Chinese, not to mention the Federal Reserve? So many powerful forces want to kill the US stock market to make Trump look bad and take away a major campaign issue.... but this market is so damned strong.... NOTHING can kill it... It's like trying to put out a tire fire that has been soaked in gasoline.... Right now, we're almost up to the point just before the big drop when many (including Accadacca) thought the world was ending.... We're ALMOST back up to record historic highs...... Unbelievable....



Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

I've been following cannabis stocks for a little while. For the last four months cannabis stocks have been on an unexplained downturn. This week is showing signals that an upturn is imminent. Right now is a great time to buy in. I believe we'll see a strong rally in the cannabis market heading into the holidays.

We'll see...

[uintafly]

Pothead. :)

[Iceaxe]

Maybe I'm just being overly concerned but I stay away from anything to do with marijuana for the simple reason it's still against the federal law.... Now the reason for my concern is I believe the left will eventually use the federal law and red flag laws to try and confiscate the firearms of anyone that has anything to do with marijuana. They could basically restrict a large portion of the population from owning firearms by simply enforcing federal laws currently on the books.

Question #5 on the 4473 form you must fill out to buy a firearm basically says if you have anything to do with marijuana you are prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

If you want to discuss this further I'll be the guy wearing the tinfoil hat.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

Keep in mind MJ is fully legal in Canada, and anytime marijuana comes up in political discussions it is widely accepted that the US will eventually follow suit.

It is merely a question of when not if.

[Iceaxe]

I don't doubt the US will follow suit, unless the liberal left decides a better use for marijuana is to keep it illegal and use it to take away your guns.

Distribution of marijuana also makes it illegal for you to own firearms, and you could make a case that owning stock is part of the distribution chain.

I prefer not to take that risk when there are plenty of other great investments with no grey areas.

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

Pothead. :)

+1

[rockgremlin]

Moral of the story: Don't let the Media Scare Tactics frighten you.

Despite all of the scary headlines, here we are again knocking on the door of another all-time high.

93170



The numbered arrows on this chart all coincide with one of AccaDacca's ominous posts warning us about the stock market's gloomy performance.


93168

93169

93163

93164

93165

93166

93167

[devo_stevo]

The moral of the story should be that Accadacca is great at telling us predisely when things are going to turn right back around and take flight again. So if you're into buying low and selling high, wait 'til he posts and BUY, BUY, BUY!

[Iceaxe]

Accadacca watches way to much CNN. Everytime #FAKENEWS starts cheering for our country to fail the first fish they always hook is Accadacca.

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/db891c8af5dfeca3c72d60c45ea84150.jpg

[rockgremlin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/db891c8af5dfeca3c72d60c45ea84150.jpg



The moral of the story should be that Accadacca is great at telling us precisely when things are going to turn right back around and take flight again. So if you're into buying low and selling high, wait 'til he posts and BUY, BUY, BUY!


Looks like it's time to BUY, BUY, BUY!!!

[oldno7]

Stocks are poised to take out all time highs, across the board(DOW,NAS, S&P)

Since this looks imminent, I believe we will progress up Until Sept. Early Oct.

Potential, likely targets for the indices are this:

DOW--28,187
28,957
29,571
30,188

S&P--
3080
3167
3237
3307

Nas--

8126
8390
8603
8815

These #'s are based off Fibonacci price projections.
The date that keeps coming up for time projection is 10-02

I look for time and price to coincide, then exit a trade.

When you calculate time projections, you are figuring one of 3 things to happen on these dates:

1) High
2) Low
3) continuation

I believe my 10-02 time is reflecting a swing low as seen on todays chart.

There is a very nice divergence in MACD as well.

The 23% retrace from all time high is 26,056
That is the level the market traded at this morning, prior to the drop.
We are now 150 points above this area

[oldno7]

https://tos.mx/tosmx/item?id=g8eQGuQ&&image

[oldno7]

little more chart to see

https://tos.mx/tosmx/item?id=wZu5pVJ&&image

[oldno7]

FYI

TD Ameritrade is now commission free, as of today

[accadacca]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/db891c8af5dfeca3c72d60c45ea84150.jpg


The moral of the story should be that Accadacca is great at telling us precisely when things are going to turn right back around and take flight again. So if you're into buying low and selling high, wait 'til he posts and BUY, BUY, BUY!


Looks like it's time to BUY, BUY, BUY!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191007/05236b3c8c6ec2ba582d7c333a93c7f6.jpg

[rockgremlin]

^^^ So this is all just a troll job?

I'm not sure I buy that. :nono:

I think your Trump-hating friend has been whispering in your ear again.

[Iceaxe]

^^^ So this is all just a troll job?

I'm not sure I buy that. :nono:

I think your Trump-hating friend has been whispering in your ear again.

^^^THIS^^^

Accadacca's disdain for Trump oozes out of every post. The fact that he appears to be actually cheering for the US economy to fail is just sad.

[emoji631]

Climb-Utah.com

[accadacca]

^^^THIS^^^

Accadacca's disdain for Trump oozes out of every post. The fact that he appears to be actually cheering for the US economy to fail is just sad.

[emoji631]

Climb-Utah.com

RLOL!!!

When it comes to politics, I don’t have a horse in the race. I do enjoy watching you guys get your panties in a bunch, but I don’t remember the last time I posted in a political thread. When I do it’s not because of my stance, but to get a reaction and/or hear others opinions. Or because I think it’s funny. If you can’t appreciate the comedy because you are so entrenched in you own stance, then that’s just sad to me.

Obviously the economy (in my opinion) seems to be the strongest it’s been in many years. Regardless of what the stock market shows or doesn’t show, consumer confidence (in my opinion) has been at all time high for the last couple years and I’m not sure how you could discredit Trump, unless you have ulterior motives.

[Iceaxe]

^^^No... you have a horse in the race, which is why you only ever post the negative. It's obvious who you're cheering for to anyone paying attention... you're not hard to read, as you wear your heart on your sleeve.

My only question from your posts is I can't figure out who you want to crash and burn more... BYU or Trump... but it's obvious your cheering against both.

[accadacca]

Ok pops. You are entitled to your opinion. It doesn’t matter who is president. If I see something funny, then I’m going to post it.

As for BYU. I like the team and coaches, but dislike some of the fans. That puts me in a tough predicament.

[Iceaxe]

As for BYU. I like the team and coaches, but dislike some of the fans. That puts me in a tough predicament.

So basically just the opposite from politics, where you like most the fans but hate the coach.... ROFLMAO



Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

Stocks hit a new all time high today.

That is all...

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

S&P did
Nasdaq matched old high and dow lagging a bit.

[Iceaxe]

My stock portfolio hit an all time high today.... I'm fat and happy :-)

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

S&P 500, Nasdaq hit new records after October jobs numbers beat expectations

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-index-futures-point-higher-ahead-of-october-jobs-report-manufacturing-data-2019-11-01

[oldno7]

correction/pullback/start of bear market, coming soon....

I've gone into cash on my mutuals.

My upside first target was 28,187

close enough for me to not get burned in a drop.

[Iceaxe]

DJIA closes above 28,000.... so much for Accadacca's recession.

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

correction/pullback/start of bear market, coming soon....

I've gone into cash on my mutuals.


[Ahem] Not the best time to get into mutual funds then, eh?

[oldno7]

[Ahem] Not the best time to get into mutual funds then, eh?


Not unless a bear fund

[rockgremlin]

Not unless a bear fund

Bonds and precious metals?

[Iceaxe]

[Ahem] Not the best time to get into mutual funds then, eh?If you are just Joe Sixpack (or Rock Gremlin) I believe the best strategy is just to invest on a regular basis and not try to time the highs and lows in the market. For example every January since 1978 I've funded my IRA or Roth IRA with the maximum amount allowed and it's now worth over a million. I never tried to time the markets as I believe it's more important to be consistent on investing over the long haul. Not to mention I don't have the time to sit and watch the market every day. YMMV

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

:roll::roll:

I've got two IRAs that I regularly feed - one of which I've been feeding every month since 1998.

I was just curious as to Oldno7's reasoning as to why he believes a bear market is around the corner.

[oldno7]

:roll::roll:

I've got two IRAs that I regularly feed - one of which I've been feeding every month since 1998.

I was just curious as to Oldno7's reasoning as to why he believes a bear market is around the corner.


pullback/correction/bear market.

one leads to the other and one never knows the severity.

I don't believe a bear market is around the corner(but it could be)

I strongly believe we are very close to a market top.

Hence, we are due a pullback

from there ????

I'm hoping for about a 2 week drop, we'll see.

[dougrz]

I'm of the opinion it's just a risk in an election year. To power the next market upswing, we need Trump and a House majority and a few more seats in the Senate. Then we need the political will and intelligence to cut corp taxes again and roll back regs further.

Versus the downside risk of the communists getting in and enacting whatever. But even with just an admin, they'll go ape on executive regulation.

The dollar index is high. The market all time highs. Ripe time, imo, to take profits and shift to non-dollar assets and non-stock market when in dollars.

As the underlying thinking for me, I'm not confident in the future of this country. 1/2 the pop seems hellbent on socializing the economy. I see little long term hope given the education system, which turns out anti-American, anti-freedom robots.

[oldno7]

There are 2 upcoming key factors that will greatly affect the stock market.

1) China deal

2) impeachment

If the china deal completely falls apart, that could cause a huge drop.


Undoubtedly Trump will be impeached by a strictly partisan house.(no affect on market)

Then the senate hearings.(no affect unless removed from office, highly unlikely)

Really nothing special here, just my timing says get out and wait on a pullback to re enter.

[Iceaxe]

IMHO... The stock market will stay up at least until the next election because Trump needs a strong stock market to get re-elected. The President has a bunch of tools he can use to make sure the stock market remains high for the next 12 months, even if it's an unsustainable artificial high... For example Trump can add or relax tariffs among other items...

[rockgremlin]

IMHO... The stock market will stay up at least until the next election because Trump needs a strong stock market to get re-elected. The President has a bunch of tools he can use to make sure the stock market remains high for the next 12 months, even if it's an unsustainable artificial high... For example Trump can add or relax tariffs among other items...

I subscribe to the same theory. We've seen Trump do this before, and he can do it again if needed. If a Democrat were elected the stock market would take a large step backwards.

[dougrz]

Delete

[Iceaxe]

BOOM! The DJIA just hit it's 100th record high since Trump was elected.

This has never happened under any President EVER!!!

And Trump is a near lock for 4 more years.

Thanks Trump, I might retire early :-)

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

Accadacca and the Democrats are going to hate this...

Economy to boom in 2020

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-economy-to-boom-in-2020-big-money-managers

Climb-Utah.com

[dougrz]

^^ Oh, lest we forget, just a few months ago it was non-stop in the major media that we were heading to recession. All in an effort to get people to pull back and be frightened, to make it come.

I can't type here what I think of Dems and the media.

[oldno7]

I'm incredibly entertained when the dem presidential circus crew says---"I'll turn this economy around"(undoubtedly)

"I'll fix this economy"(undoubtedely)

That is indeed their hope, destroy the most vibrant economy in history.

Why? because democrats can only exist on a promise, they have centuries of unfullfilled ones.

They thrive on the downtroden, the opressed, the homeless, the minorities, all living in poverty.

Wealth and people living in comfort destroys the dems and all they stand for.

So--until they can destroy(fix) the economy,according to them,

there is no civilized need for their failed culture of reee, screeech, entitlement, power trips, etc

misery loves company and misery(dems) are losing theirs.

[oldno7]

IT’S OFFICIAL: 2019 Is Greatest Year in Stock Market History – Another All-Time High Today – DOW Up Over 5,000 Points In 2019 Alone
America is in the middle of its greatest stock market rally ever but no one would know it due to the media’s fixation on anything anti-Trump.The markets showed today that they maintain their confidence in President Trump as the DOW reached another all-time closing high. This was the 124th all-time high since the 2016 election.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/its-official-2019-is-greatest-year-in-stock-market-history-another-all-time-high-today-dow-up-over-5000-points-in-2019-alone/

[oldno7]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Fs9tbV9zRB7Y%2F maxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[oldno7]

Saturday shopping set a single-day sales record, analyst says

Holiday shopping set records over the weekend, with Super Saturday sales reaching $34.4 billion, the biggest single day in U.S. retail history, according to Customer Growth Partners.
“Paced by the ‘Big Four’ mega-retailers -- Walmart, Amazon, Costco and Target -- Super Saturday was boosted by the best traffic our team has seen in years,” said Craig Johnson, president of the retail research firm.

Holiday shopping set records over the weekend, with Super Saturday sales reaching $34.4 billion, the biggest single day in U.S. retail history, according to Customer Growth Partners.
“Paced by the ‘Big Four’ mega-retailers -- Walmart, Amazon, Costco and Target -- Super Saturday was boosted by the best traffic our team has seen in years,” said Craig Johnson, president of the retail research firm.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/saturday-shopping-set-a-single-day-sales-record-analyst-says/ar-BBYhl0P?li=BBnbfcL

[oldno7]

https://i.imgflip.com/3kehpr.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Thanks Trump!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/d8bb677ca32c0f99b06f9d84d0bdb15c.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

^^I was looking at my IRA yesterday and thought the same thing. Thanks Trump. I can only hope for 5 more years like this one.

I'm dreading the day another Democrat gets in the White House. I can't take anymore 1% returns. Also, with all the plans they seem to have, our taxes will rise at least 10% and I won't be able to put anything in my retirement plan anyway.

[dougrz]

2020's Best Asset Class https://seekingalpha.com/article/4314261

^ I like this author. The numbers in the article, total market cap to GDP at 150% and CAPE above 30, are historically expensive.

Just be wary. You have to price in risk the Dems sweep. I've been saying this to iceaxe in particular for months. No denying the extraordinary 2019 market, and no reason we can't have this for many years given Trump style Republicanism.

But that risk, where the penalty factor (had to get a canyoneering term in) is so high, isn't zero. And I'd even argue it's 50% ish.

---
Excerpt below
---

Today the ratio of total market cap to GDP is over 150%. Historically that has offered a prospective total return of about -3%. This ratio has never been higher. In March 2000, it briefly touched about 149%, but today’s ratio is uncharted territory. Warren Buffett considers this to be the best measure of the market’s overall valuation. By this measure, the market is unambiguously expensive as we enter 2020.
Another way to look at the US market is its cyclically adjusted price-to-earnings/CAPE ratio compared to its historical CAPE ratio as well as compared with other country markets. Its current CAPE ratio is over 30 for the third time in history – the first peaked briefly in September 1929 and the second peaked briefly in December 1999. In both instances, the ratios (and markets) crashed in the subsequent months.
How does the US compare with other countries around the world? We have the third-highest CAPE ratio and are one of only three above 30. The average among the developed markets is 25. China’s is 15; Russia’s is 8. Other metrics tell a similar story – we have the fifth-highest P/E ratio, we’re the fourth most expensive market relative to our cash flow, the most expensive relative to our book value, and second relative to sales. We have the third-lowest dividend yield in the world. Subjectively, there are great advantages to investing in the US (rule of law, local knowledge, convenience); objectively, you have to pay dearly for those advantages.

So, if we’re looking to underpay for everything we buy, we won’t be adding to broad equity market exposure as we enter 2020. But if not cash, bonds, or equities, then what? We don’t make grandiose market calls but seek bargains

[oldno7]

I took my mutual fund money out in Nov.

Put it in a dividend fund.

Have already received 2 dividends+increase in fund.

Feels a bit safer.

It's up about 1,5% in that time.(mid Nov-Dec 31)

[Iceaxe]

Just be wary. You have to price in risk the Dems sweep. I've been saying this to iceaxe in particular for months. No denying the extraordinary 2019 market, and no reason we can't have this for many years given Trump style Republicanism.

A Democratic sweep?!? :roflol::roflol::roflol:

Damn.... that's so funny I just squirted beer out of my nose laughing so hard.

Not a chance in hell, right now it's questionable if the Democrats will even be able to keep the house.... I pushed my chips all in a year ago and I'm sailing until storm clouds gather on the horizon... Right now it's clear sailing for the foreseeable future... it fact last years head winds (China, USMCA) should be this years tail winds,,,,

YMMV

[twotimer]

A Democratic sweep?!? :roflol::roflol::roflol:


YMMVIndeed. If that guy has any real concerns about that, I'm sure as hell not going to listen to any of his advice.

[dougrz]

Indeed. If that guy has any real concerns about that, I'm sure as hell not going to listen to any of his advice.The author I pointed to does not. He just argues against index investing at these elevated values. I'm the one laying out the Dem sweep risk.

Has the trajectory of the country changed, in terms of the leftist machine turning out morons? School system, pop culture, mass media, Silicon Valley, mass immigration, age of and consequent death of previous American generations... all still working against us. That's what I'm pointing to. Add in the census showing a shift of a not insignificant number of electoral votes to left wing states.

Too much confidence on our side, methinks.

My movements have been toward diversifying away from stocks. Of my net worth, I'm 40% real estate, 20% bonds, 40% stock. 1 year ago I was 20/20/60 of those.

[Iceaxe]

If you are including real estate that's an entirely different story as that would make up over 50% of my net worth. Add in other valuable assets like the companies I own and my net worth percentage in stocks drops much further... But this thread is on stocks.

Climb-Utah.com

[dougrz]

That's a valid point. Though I have rentals and flips in progress exceeding my home value and have been doing hard money lending I'm counting in that. In stocks I've been slowly moving toward more foreign.

Given the high price of US stocks on an index level, the old "priced for perfection" adage comes to mind. I don't like buying anything at such levels. Except Amazon back in the day, where the signs of being an absolute beast of a play look strong.

[twotimer]

The author I pointed to does not. He just argues against index investing at these elevated values. I'm the one laying out the Dem sweep risk.


Too much confidence on our side, methinks.

I stand corrected.

I hear you with the too much confidence thing...back in '12 Romney was certainly a weak candidate, but I was floored when Obama beat him so handily. Indeed, nothing is a sure thing no matter how much one may think it is.

But this time around...I think the behavior of the media will work in Trumps favor. They've been exposed...It's easier to win people over with persuasive speeches than foaming at the mouth rage. Also, those that would replace him are severely more undesirable than he is.

Predictions? I think as the Dems continue to flop around, the Dow will hit 32 before the election.

[dougrz]

I hear you with the too much confidence thing...back in '12 Romney was certainly a weak candidate, but I was floored when Obama beat him so handily.Truly. I worked the last 4 or 5 weeks of that election out of a Romney office in my area. Really slick operation. Was sure we'd win. Gallup had us up 7 nationally iirc 2 or 3 weeks before the vote. Was a gut punch shock.

Contrasted with working the last 5 or 6 weeks out of a Trump office. Shoestring barebones setup and we won, while I was zero confident that final day.
I think the behavior of the media will work in Trumps favor. They've been exposed...It's easier to win people over with persuasive speeches than foaming at the mouth rage.And that's the major reason Trump does well, yes. Exposure of them. The Rose McGowan tweet today being a prime example.

[Iceaxe]

Students of history will know that good stock years ALWAYS follow great years, and we just finished one of the best years ever.... So there is that...

Climb-Utah.com

[dougr]

Students of history will know that good stock years ALWAYS follow great years, and we just finished one of the best years ever.... So there is that...

It's always dangerous in investing to say, "but this time it's different." Granted. But this country _is_ different than before. We're in a non-shooting civil war, with the anti-American radical left stronger and closer to full power than ever, and a larger proportion of the population filled with genuinely anti-American immigrants giving that movement serious momentum. These aren't normal times.

Absent that, we live in a time of exponential productivity growth from advances in science and tech. We've never seen the possibilities we have now. But leftists and their 3rd world voters have an agenda.

[Iceaxe]

Don't look now, but Goldman Sachs is saying the economy is nearly recession-proof

Just months after almost everyone on Wall Street worried that a recession was just around the corner, Goldman Sachs said a downturn is unlikely over the next several years.

In fact, the firm's economists stopped just short of saying that the U.S. economy is recession-proof.

An analysis Goldman conducted of the current potential risks to growth show that they are mostly muted. The report found that the pillars of the "Great Moderation" that began in the 1980s — low levels of volatility marked by sustainable growth and muted inflation, interrupted only by the financial crisis more than a decade ago — are still standing.

Investors could be excused for getting a little nervous over such calls, as optimism also was heavy in late-2007, just as the economy was about to enter the worst of the financial crisis.

"Overall, the changes underlying the Great Moderation appear intact, and we see the economy as structurally less recession-prone today," Goldman economists Jan Hatzius and David Mericle wrote. "While new risks could emerge, none of the main sources of recent recessions — oil shocks, inflationary overheating, and financial imbalances — seem too concerning for now. As a result, the prospects for a soft landing look better than widely thought."

That view is a sea change from some of the fears that permeated Wall Street in late summer and early fall.

Worries surged that the U.S.-China trade war, global economic weakness and geopolitical risks from Brexit and other sources would act as severe drags on growth.

A yield curve inversion, or a point where short-term government bond yields rise above their longer-duration counterparts, helped stoke those fears. An inversion has correctly predicted each of the last seven recessions, and in August a New York Fed indicator that tracks the yield curve put risk of a downturn at 38%, the highest since the financial crisis.

However, those fears have ebbed as the tariff rhetoric has cooled and the yield curve has reverted. The New York Fed tracker now puts recession risk over the next 12 months at just 24.6%, about where it was in February.

Read the rest here:*www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/dont-look-now-but-goldman-sachs-is-saying-the-economy-is-nearly-recession-proof/ar-BBYv77I?li=BBnbfcN

If this keeps up the democrats are toast in 2020 elections and beyond...

Climb-Utah.com

[oldno7]

We all agree on the fact the economy is the strongest in recent, if not total history.

Great job to President Trump in the orchestration of this:2thumbs:

Now---having said that, can we all agree that no market goes straight up or inversely--straight down, over an extended period?

There are many variations of investors as well as many variations of traders.

So-you say, aren't you talking about one in the same? I'm not.

An investor buys "things" for a long term advantage. Small price reductions in "things" over the coarse of ownership are considered normal and to be expected.

An investor never has a fear of market fluctuations because they know the "thing" they bought has enough value that it's price will come back from a correction, only to likely increase in value over it's previous price.

A trader of "things" buys the exact same item as an investor does but plans to take his money out as the new high value of the "thing" is achieved.

The trader then knows how to buy many more of the same "things" at a lower price.

ie. both start out with 100 "things", the investor see's his "things" go up in price and is reassured as the value of his "things" declines, they are good "things" and history tells me the value will come back and then some. Investor only needs to have patience, which in "thing" ownership terminology, means Time.

The trader buys his 100 "things" and also is enjoying watching the price of these "things" increase.

BUT--the trader has a system/method that tells him when the cost of his "things" is nearly maxed out for the time being.

Trader sells his things at a profit, investor, knowing "things" will always come back, holds onto his.

Both individuals--Investor/Trader at one time had the value of 120 "things" when the "thing" market was increasing.

Investor still has his 100 "things" but they are losing value, they once were valued at 120 "things" but in a week or 2 there value has decreased to 108 "things"

Trader sold his 100 "things" for the value of 120 "things"(likely only 117-118 "things")

While Investor is watching his "thing" value decrease on a daily basis, Trader has the value of 120 "things" in the bank.

Since trader has a system/method to exit near a high, he has the same system/method to buy back in at a low.

So the "thing" market drops 10%, as "thing" markets often do.

Trader has money sitting in the bank looking for a good discount.

As price drops 10%, trader now buys 132 "things" for the exact same money that he just sold 120 "things" for.

So at this point, trader has the same amount of money he had when he sold at 120 "thing" but he now has 132 "things with no additional cash outlay on his part.

Investor at this point has the value of 108 things, he's still ahead of his original cash outlay and life is good and he only has to look at his "thing" value 4 times a year.

So when "thing" value goes to 125, investor says--wooohooo, I'm making money:2thumbs:, and indeed that is a fact.

The trader on the other hand just quietly smiles and says--good job!!

[dougr]

Don't look now, but Goldman Sachs is saying the economy is nearly recession-proof

I read this article a few days ago and couldn't help but think back to the media drumbeat a few months ago trying to scare people to stop spending to induce a recession.

I know I sound like a broken record, ice, but I keep beating the drum of immigration. Given an American America, I believe your analysis is correct. But 1 to 1.5 mil per year, with chaining on top of that, irrevocably and profoundly moves the electorate in the, not just Dem's favor, but hard anti-American left's favor. All bets off given that.

What we see as the core Dem positions today are treasonous, communist, and nation suicide level, but that's 1/2 the country now- fueled by the twin evils of leftist schooling making the leaders and immigration making the followers.

My conservative 50-something cousin called me a few months ago, asking to host/hire his college-aged son for a month next summer. Said he's losing him to leftist brainwashing at Virginia Tech, maybe a month of me ("educated," "well spoken") could get through to him. Wash, rinse, repeat x25 million kids from middle American value homes.

[Iceaxe]

I'm 60 y/o, I only need four more years out of Trump and I can take my pile of gold and retire like a king to a Caribbean Beach of my choosing.

I feel sorry for the direction of the country most of our youth wants it to go, but if they want to turn the US into another Socialist shit hole it's their choice, I've done my part and my generation (boomer) did our part to turn over a proud Republic.

I just hope the youth of today understand you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.

Climb-Utah.com

[Iceaxe]

Dow, S&P and Nasdaq today all closed at all time high's.... please tell me again about how the Democrats are going to fix this economy?

Climb-Utah.com

[devo_stevo]

They're mad because people who are actually being responsible and planning for their retirement by investing in 401(k)s and IRAs as well as mutual funds and stocks are becoming wealthier while those that don't or won't do those things are falling farther behind.

It's just not fair, so obviously, we need to destroy those fortunes that are out there so that we're all equal.

Their goal is for all of us to depend on the all powerful and wonderful federal government by way of the greatest social program of all. Social security. It'll save us all. Forget about personal responsibility and planning for your future. None of that matters when there are poor people that can't afford to retire with dignity and you're off to the Carribean and enjoying yourself. You selfish twit.

[rockgremlin]

Anybody who has a 401K, IRA, Mutual Fund, or stock trading account should be sending Trump Christmas cards and Thank You notes on a regular basis.

5 more years of this? YES PLEASE!! :five:

[Iceaxe]

DOW hits 29,000 for the first time ever.

#WINNING

[oldno7]

DOW hits 29,000 for the first time ever.

#WINNING


Trumps fault....

[diesel]

Just stunning. Apple posts a 2% increase in dividends, meanwhile their stock soars 84%. Thank you Fed for the 6 trillion in 'loans' these past few months.

Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk

[dougrz]

I'm paring my stock holdings back more. Sold off some huge gains in APO and KKR.

I'm thinking Bernie would be the strongest nominee. There's a magic to his cause that's going to bring a lot of new voters to the polls. Very much the Trump of the Dem party.

[oldno7]

Just stunning. Apple posts a 2% increase in dividends, meanwhile their stock soars 84%. Thank you Fed for the 6 trillion in 'loans' these past few months.

Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk

Well the quantitative isn't going to ease itself:mrgreen:

[rockgremlin]

I'm thinking Bernie would be the strongest nominee. There's a magic to his cause that's going to bring a lot of new voters to the polls. Very much the Trump of the Dem party.

I just don't see it happening. He's too old, too frail, too white, and too socialist to ever be fully embraced by the Democrat party. Much less by anybody else.

[dougrz]

I just don't see it happening. He's too old, too frail, too white, and too socialist to ever be fully embraced by the Democrat party. Much less by anybody else.I don't claim to know the country deeply enough anymore, that's for sure. But more than a few times I've overheard 20-somethings talking about the choices and I don't recall once where it wasn't Bernie. Most recently a few nights ago amongst the 11pm shift at my grocery store.

Then a convo on Wed with a guy I met for a CL item. I was there almost 45 mins checking a used laptop, convo took off. I just listened as he talked about politics in Michigan where he'd moved from. Both reinforced what I believed, so they left a mark of course. Confirmation bias. His comments were about the enthusiasm for Biden, Warren, Bernie. Warren having a streak of being disliked personally/personality by his crowd, Bernie loved, and Biden meh. Enthusiasm and turnout will decide this in my mind, hence Bernie.

Of course people actually talking about this stuff are a self-selected group, more enthused in general, and therefore more Bernie probably. The DNC power may not want him, but I believe the rank and file are seriously communist left now.

[Iceaxe]

I don't claim to know the country deeply enough anymore, that's for sure. But more than a few times I've overheard 20-somethings talking about the choices and I don't recall once where it wasn't Bernie.

The biggest problem with your argument is the voting block you are discussing is the most unreliable of all. The 20-somethings are to damn lazy to put down the Xbox controller and actually vote. If you are counting on the youth vote you are playing Russian roulette.



Climb-Utah.com

[dougrz]

The biggest problem with your argument is the voting block you are discussing is the most unreliable of all. The 20-somethings are to damn lazy to put down the Xbox controller and actually vote. If you are counting on the youth vote you are playing Russian roulette.



Climb-Utah.comAgreed. Turnout decides it. And who of the Dems wound engender the most magnetic enthusiasm? That's my thinking.

[devo_stevo]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-says-dows-record-high-is-meaningless-for-many-americans/ar-BBYTXKR?li=BBnbfcN

It's BS like this coming out of the mouths of these people that I just don't get. It's just a bunch of crap meant to keep the poor people poor and keep their voters happy that they are disgusted. All the while, you can bet that they themselves are neck deep in money coming from the increase in the value of their own investments.

If they would spend half the energy they spend on demonizing Wall Street in educating people in how to use it to their own advantage, people would be better off. That would mean that they would run out of voters though, so it's never going to happen.

[Iceaxe]

I'll say it again.... people are not poor because they have no money. People are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

Climb-Utah.com

[dougrz]

I have a slightly different take on the above. AOC's headline statement is correct: a high DOW is meaningless to most people.

MAGAers have to remember if we are to keep this new coalition, we want the firehouse of wealth to be spraying to the working class. Rather than spraying overseas and into corp pockets. Profitability- what the DOW is measuring- coming from the easy China trade does little for the nation and certainly doesn't help Trump with working class voters.

The brilliance of Trump was running pro-biz, pro-worker. Gotta keep the 2nd part going.

[Iceaxe]

Something like 70% of working Americans have money in some type of retirement plan.... a strong Wallstreet helps all of those people. So I disagree with AOC.

Climb-Utah.com

[BasinCruiser]

Yep. That's the big fat truth that Bernie and Pocahontas won't admit to when they start jumping on the Wallstreet bashing bandwagaon. They take for granted that their minions don't realize that a big bulk of Wall street is comprised of 401k, pensions, and retirements for hard working blue collar workers, and paint the picture that it's full of fat cat millionaires that are 'steeling' the profits of the workers backs.

[dougrz]

Valid points above. AOC's comment was, a high DOW is "meaningless." A better point would be it's meaningless in perceived importance.

Most people don't understand how important efficiency and profitability are to a high standard of living and high wages. Profit has been demonized. Stock holdings in retirement accounts probably doesn't register to many.

That said, Tucker Carlson is sober about the chances of Dems sweeping, saying the other night Trump is slightly favored to win. There is still a serious decay of our cities leaving people behind. Given that, not hard to say Dem messaging has and will continue to infect many.

[dougr]

^ To add. Tucker's comments put it better than I can. Really good read. He is the single best pundit, who truly understands the dynamics at play.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-republicans-trump-victory-election

Snippet:

"But dig a little deeper. A Pew poll from this fall provides a glimpse of what is actually happening in a lot of parts of the country. In that survey, 56 percent of Americans said the economy was excellent or good, and that's good news. But then there was this: Only 31 percent of the economy was helping them and their families. Just 32 percent thought the current economy was helping the middle class, 58 percent thought the opposite.

Among lower-income Republicans, 47 percent said economic conditions were hurting them; just 30 percent said they were helping. Now keep in mind, these aren't sociology professors from the Oberlin faculty lounge. This is the president's core, it's his base.

Why do they feel that way? It's not personal. It's just really simple.

For a lot of middle class people, wages are not keeping pace with expenses. Child care, housing, education, health care -- they're all getting more expensive by the year. The student loan bubble is still inflating. It's burdening young people with debts so large, they can't start families.

Now, these are economic problems, but they require a political solution. The candidate who makes it easier for 30-year-olds to get married and have kids will win the election and will deserve to win. Remember that. It's truer than any economic theory conceived on any college campus in the last hundred years.

Improve people's lives, and they will vote for you. Period. Republicans ought to write that on our hands. Otherwise, the temptation will be to focus entirely on the lunacy on display on the left right now.

Democrats have gone crazy, and it's definitely worth pointing that out repeatedly. We do it five nights a week. But it's not enough to win. Winning candidates come with their own program. They convince voters they will make things better.

Bernie Sanders may get the Democratic nomination, and if he does, every Republican in Washington will spend the next 10 months reminding you that socialism does not work and never has worked. And they'll be right, obviously.

But if Sanders pledges to forgive student loans, he will still win many thousands of voters who went for Donald Trump last time. Why? Because debt is crushing an entire generation of Americans. Republicans need to make a plan to make it better, or they will be left behind.

And one more piece of advice: Don't ignore the social issues. The Republican establishment despises this conversation. If it's not about tax rates, they don't want to talk about it."

[Iceaxe]

I just found this little gem... LMAO...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200124/0c6f7d3a2417b4c61e23ac7ab945a102.jpg

For anyone that cares.... Kurt Eichenwald is an American journalist and a New York Times bestselling author of five books, one of which, The Informant, was made into a motion picture in 2009.

[oldno7]

Yea, I saw that also.^^^^^

Worst case ever of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[dougrz]

^ What an idiot. At the time, the highly likely corporate tax cuts were an easy to see goose to earnings, and the market by extension.

I argue caution now, granted, but just because I don't think the risk of a Dem win is priced in.