Ahhhh...pick a side. There's winners and losers. In the meantime, anybody wanna get high?
Attachment 91183
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Ahhhh...pick a side. There's winners and losers. In the meantime, anybody wanna get high?
Attachment 91183
Actually, I cut and pasted from the dictionary. The point was that morality is defining right and wrong. Legislators define "right and wrong" and we call it "law". You are correct about definitions of right and wrong. My definition may not be your definition of right and wrong or good and bad. That is why I may vote one way and you may vote another way. America is just awesome that way! We vote for who we think will best represent our values, our morality, our definition of right and wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Not to keep poking you, but where is the ad hominem? Nothing in my post was really directed at you, other to ask why you care what other people do. And I do think the anti pot folks use the same arguments about the good of society as the anti gay marriage and anti death with dignity folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
there is a consistent accusation that I'm against the legalization of Marijuana, only because I'm offering countering argument points. (Same thing with Gay Marriage or any other hot topic)
I'm not against marijuana.
I'm not against marijuana
I'm not against marijuana
But if you want it legalized, the articles about kids with seizures won't do the trick because there are dozens of existing legal medications, INCLUDING EXISTING LEGAL cannabis products already.
And to push the "Mormon Church is super controlling of Utah", then when it looked like it might pass to backpedal away from that accusation like you never said it, , well that point doesn't change minds either.
You guys sure have spent a lot of time arguing against me for the merits of Marijuana when I never EVER EVER EVER said I oppose it. I've used and abused it many times, much more than the average Utahn. Those days are in the past though, but I'm still not taking a side. Explain how it's going to benefit lives where there is NO other alternative.
But I'll tell ya what, every time I'm accused of opposing it because of some suggestion that I think I'm better than others because of morals or religion, well that's just enough to make me choose a side and work against you. If we've learned anything about Trump vs Hillary, it's that the persistent labeling of conservatives as bigots and racists will only motivate them more to come out and vote. Same thing here, if we are going to be labeled as religious prudes, that's going to make me want to actually cast a vote, in the negative.
I think it was all the "you's" . :)Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
Nothing to refute here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
My apologies if it felt like I was misrepresenting you.
That is all.
rhetorical yous. :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
Herbert calls special legislative session on medical marijuana for Monday
https://www.ksl.com/article/46438414...ana-for-monday
That's because Prop 2 is the law until they gut it. For the next 48 hours pot is actually legal for some people in the state of Utah. The sky is falling... the sky is falling....Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
This is pretty funny.... wanna be Governor.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/loca...fore-election/
The main changes
The compromise bill sponsored by Hughes proposes significant changes to how medical marijuana could legally be recommended, sold and consumed. It removes a hotly contested provision allowing patients living a certain distance from a dispensary to grow up to six marijuana plants. It also narrows a controversial provision that gives a person an "affirmative defense" to marijuana use or possession charges if they can prove their medical need despite not possessing a medical cannabis card.
Following the comments on Fox 13...it would seem the changes were so drastic that the LDS church needs to be taxed, run out of town and burned at the stake!Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkHammergate
Gov. Gary Herbert has signed into law a medical marijuana bill to replace the ballot initiative that voters approved on Nov. 6.
The Medical Cannabis Act was passed through both houses of the Utah Legislature during a special session Monday and signed into law Monday night.
After signing the bill, Herbert released a statement saying, in part: "This is a historic day. With the passage of the Utah Medical Cannabis Act, Utah now has the best-designed medical cannabis program in the country."
So in the end, will patients have access to Medical Marijuana? If so, that's a win, right? After all, that's what the campaigns were fighting for.
I hardly think people will be satisfied at that though.
I like that this passed so that it can be of benefit to those who need it. My bitch is this... legislature wont do shit about it until enough people sign a petition to get it on the ballot. Then they go into high gear to try to negotiate an alternate plan, hoping to derail the ballot initiative. At the same time the opponents go apeshit trying to slander the bill, then to try to persuade the majority to vote no on religious grounds. When the dust settles WE THE PEOPLE vote to go with the proposition. And our elected officials are flipping us the bird and doing what they believe they know is best for us. I don't really care about the specifics of the bill... or the compromise... I care that we just got screwed by the man without so much as a reach around.
I'd be just as pissed if the compromise allowed recreational pot... the issue is circumventing the Democratic voting process. Worse is that they do the special session now, not after the new crop of legislators is sworn in, not after we let it run for a bit then try to resolve the holes in the law. This is worse than "executive order" issues as the entire legislative body is in on it (except the 13 who voted against).
The lawsuits are lining up - so now we get to waste tax dollars to defend our dumbassery.
Rant over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by double moo
X2
Blatant miscarriage of the democratic process.
But, this constitutional democratic republic of a state is working perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
When the legislators can just do whatever they want to the Propositions that the people put forward and a majority voted for -- where's the democratic process in that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
Why even put forward a Proposition at all if the will of the people is just going to be trampled?
So help me understand, in the end will medical marijuana be available to those who need it? If so, what's the problem? That was the sole purpose, right?
I hate politics as much as the next guy, except for the memes, but from what I'm hearing from the good folks at Bogley, it sounds like this medicine will be available to those who qualify. Or is this not correct? Serious question, because I'm not reading political articles like everybody else.
Here you go, 'Beech. From KSL.com:
"Gov. Gary Herbert announced Monday evening he had signed the bill, saying Utah "now has the best-designed medical cannabis program in the country."
"Working with trained medical professionals, qualified patients in Utah will be able to receive quality-controlled cannabis products from a licensed pharmacist in medical dosage form. And this will be done in a way that prevents diversion of product into a black market."
Here is the link to the article at KSL.com. It addresses the promised lawsuits also:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46439801...omise-into-law
OK so cool, the patients have a way to get this Medical Marijuana. That's the goal, right?
Just curious what the complaints are. What is the different outcome that was wanted?
Or was it secretly about recreational use, when we heard over and over and over again that it was only for medical use, that we don't need to worry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
No it's just the fact that lawmakers can basically do whatever they want with impunity. The taxpayers did what was required of them to get the Proposition on the ballot -- they jumped through all of the required hoops, and played by all of the rules. Only to have the government basically gut the thing and install what they wanted, how they wanted it. The Proposition that was signed into law was effectively adulterated with a version nobody who voted for Prop 2 wanted. That's a travesty of the democratic process.
You make the point that patients have access to Cannabis. Well sort of. In some ways it is actually MORE difficult to access under the new rules.
Regardless, you can see why those who voted for Prop 2 might be disappointed, right?
Well I do keep hearing that it was gutted, and the voters got something completely different than what they wanted, but I guess I haven't heard of any major conclusion that is different.
The voters wanted Medical Marijuana to be available to those who need it, and it sounds like this is what they got.
If the complaint is that lawmakers got their hands all over it and changed it drastically, yes welcome to politics of ANY State. I would expect Medical Marijuana to NOT be legal to these patients.
I keep hearing Medical Marijuana will be finally available, but... but..... but..... and I'm not hearing a major groundbreaking slap in the face that robbed the voters, except the lawmakers stuck their hands in it. I've yet to hear what they screwed up though. Did any of us expect it to go through the process with nobody touching it?
I guess it sounds like being given a $20 bill but complain because it wasn't crisp.
I was always up front that I thought it should be legal for recreational purposes. Hopefully this is a first step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
More like being given a $20 bill and then having it taken away and replaced with $11 in nickels.
I think you are assuming too much of the voter. Many I know voted to legalize medical marijuana because the legislature wasn't doing anything. They didn't necessarily vote for the specific terms of Prop. 2. Many flat don't care that the legislature modified the Proposition because it still accomplishes the purpose of getting it into the hands of those who need it. Others I know voted so that the legislature would get on the stick and actually do something about medicinal marijuana.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
As for recreational use, I think that is quite a ways off in this state.
Make medical marijuana available to patients = $20Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
It will be available to patients = $20
I still don't see where the shortage is, what is the variance? If it's that the voter really wanted to be able to grow their own and prescribe it to themselves or sell it commercially or privately, then that was never in the original proposition, right?
It's amazing how UNDER prepared the voters actually were for this to pass.
Example, imagine the patient going to see the doctor who has finally agreed to prescribe this. Now what? What does the doctor prescribe? Does the patient have seizures? If so, what is the dosage of the prescription? Is it one joint a day? Or is it oils (that are already legal, by the way)
What strain of Marijuana is prescribed? What's the follow up plan for the physician? What signs of improvements or long term plan is in place? How will the healing be measured?
Where does the patient get the medicine from? Will the local pharmacy start distributing a month of pot in those orange prescription pill bottles?
Or were we absolutely completely stupid enough to think this prop would give us the right to grow our own weed and self medicate?
Not even in Colorado does it give them the right to smoke it in public, contrary to popular belief. They are allowed to smoke but only in the privacy of their own homes.
I think a lot of people made a lot of stupid assumptions of what this meant if it passes, and when it does they think they were screwed, but in reality they got exactly what they voted for.
^^^Valid points, Beech.
I still wonder about the patients in rural towns. I think the plan calls for 7 dispensaries in Utah...but where will those be located? Would the patients in Kanab have to drive to SLC to access a State licensed "pharmacy?" That would kinda suck.
Denying medicine to sick people in pain because you're worried there's a chance someone might recreationally smoke pot isn't really a moral high ground.... just sayin'
:soapbox:
I think it's even worse to assume this is the mindset of everybody opposing the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
It's also irresponsible to assume marijuana is the only solution, or even the best one for these cases.
There are legit reasons to oppose it because so much has not been considered, like the points I mentioned. Those are straight from the mouth of a pain physician I spoke to today, telling me he has turned away so many people asking for medical marijuana already because of this prop, with absolutely no idea how it will work. Literally today he has turned people away asking for marijuana prescriptions because of pain.
Morals had nothing to do with it. Zero.
If it were me, personally, and I felt some right or benefit had been stripped out of a prop I voted on, I wouldn't need to search the Internet to figure out what it was.
If it's not obvious, it must not be important to the voters. I'm not saying it's right or wrong what happened, but if I was mad as hell that a feature had been taken away, I'd sure as hell already know what it was. Or how could I possibly be angry if I didn't know what was altered?????
I'll repeat myself by saying, if medical marijuana will be legal now, the voters got what they voted for.
But some people just like to be mad.
So your doctor turned away dozens of people asking for medical MJ...because what, opiates are better?
In the midst of an OPIADEMIC folks need options to treat their pain. I'd rather give hundreds an option to treat their pain and risk there being a few junkies out there getting high over denying hundreds of folks pain management options to preserve some imaginary moral high ground.
The Cure All MAGIC drug!!!!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...91da0b8e94.jpg
^^^You left out the number 1 use of cannabis... helping ugly guys get laid.
Man talk about a super troll. :lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
You're gonna get Sombeech all triggered again.
What was the Dr going to do, honestly? Which pharmacy would he send the patient to grab the Bubba Kush strain? How many puffs a day should he write up?Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Opiates are addictive, yes, and they have pros and cons. BUT... we only know this about Opiates because of the vast medical history data, which is non existent with Marijuana except that it makes you hungry and worthless to the world. Oh yeah, it cures cancer :roflol::roflol::roflol:
The problem is there is no standardized data yet for MJ. I mean what is the physician going to prescribe, really? Right now it's an absolute guessing game, taking suggestions from literal stoners on what worked well for them for a kinked neck.
Even the infamous seizure tearjerker stories, how much of which CBD product works for them, and why? What is the long term plan? NONE. ZILCH.
People were in such a hurry to legalize medical MJ that they all voted without having a single clue about how it will all work, absolutely no thought to Logistics except for "oh the tax money from weed will give more tax money to schools, think of the kids", and other far fetched stories.
But back to how Prop 2 was gutted and the voters were bent over the barrel, No they weren't. I'm still waiting for somebody to explain to me what was removed from the proposition that would have been better. NOBODY can answer this, without performing a web search for why they should be so upset :lol8: I'm still going to say it's because people wanted to legally grow their own and smoke it in public and buy from whomever they wanted, at the same time trying to convince us all it was strictly a medical marijuana bill and we shouldn't be worried at all about recreational use.
Some people just wanna be mad.
Exactly. Especially if they can throw the LDS Church under the bus. Comments like, they need to “tax them” and “where is the separation of church and state” or “I hope they get sued.” All these brilliant comments without any clue what they are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Nah man...coke did a much better job at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
:roflol:I've seen people go as far as to say the LDS Church are hypocrites because they are withholding medicine from those that need it. And then even further in the SJW camp, the church is murdering people when they die from no access to medical marijuana.Quote:
Originally Posted by accadacca
RIP Rebecca Hansen
Cause of Death - no Marijuana
And then those that just can't wait to tell us all they left the church because of the position on "life saving medicine". Oh shit, legalize, legalize! Bring these asshats back to church!
Then you remember they said they left the church over the gay parents with a kid interested in the church.
Oh no wait, no they REALLY left the church when they wouldn't give women the priesthood.
Meanwhile the church is up in arms, just complete panic upon learning how people that already weren't coming to church, will continue not coming to church.
actual MormonCam when people announce their departure:
https://media.giphy.com/media/3bLhqnqJjMNtC/giphy.gif