PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?
Printable View
PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?
I'm getting pretty sick of all of the work that keeps knocking down my door around here. I've had to turn a bunch of jobs away because I just can't get it all done. It's crazy right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
That's sarcasm btw. Things are great, but I'd like to be home more with my family. Maybe a day off. I'm going to go on vacation in a week from now and I had to buy a new laptop so that I can work in the hotel room at night. Oh well. Gots to pay the bills.
You know, I think this really speaks to the resiliency of the American stock market. Because I'm not convinced that the market is doing so well just because The Donald is commander in chief.
I mean, I could be wrong, but somebody please tell me how Trump is directly responsible for the market doing so well? Is that attributed to the Russians as well?
The one place that Trump has been tremendously successful and that most of the mainstream media refuses to report is in removing rules and regulations that stifle business. Last time I check Trump had pulled or suspended over 860 regulations. But why report on that when you have a Russian unicorn to chase.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
And part of the rise in stocks is nothing more than emotions and the business world believing the president is in their corner.
All of this is pretty much the exact opposite of Obama and the reason Obama could never really get the economy rolling and why Obama had the worst economic growth of any president in history (he never had even one quartet with 3% growth).
Anyhoo, I hope that answers at least some of your question.
And just for the record, our President is NOT the problem.
Obama was not the problem as he always did his job. Trump is not the problem as he is doing his job.
The Supreme Court is not the problem as they are doing their job.
One of these days American's are going to realize it's our legislative branch of government that is not doing their job. Our Senator's and Representatives become entrenched and beholding to special interests and not the American public. The only way to clean up this mess is to enact term limits.
:flag:
I like Iceaxe's post above. In my very humble opinion, every democratic political system has its problems; no method of government is perfect, nor can it be. We have our political "issues" here in the UK (and indeed throughout Europe) as you have over on your side of the pond.
I actually don't like the so-called democratic "one man one vote" system (please excuse the sexism) but most of the alternatives are not so favourable. Many countries, like yours and mine have a duocracy.. whether we like it or not.
Rob
We passed that realization decades ago. Now, it's on us to make change happen (i.e. Congress won't fix itself). That realization may take awhile as folks seem content w/blaming others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
You keep touting Trump and the stock market...Obama had a pretty darn good run with the Dow too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Average economic growth since 1969 is only 3.1 percent...but, he inherited a negative growth from the previous two years, and, had positive growth his entire term.
Average household income is an indicator...and, it plummeted after the 2007 to 2009 down turn. And, under Obama, its came back to nearly the 2007 level.
Stocks? 200% growth under Obama. There's a cliff out there. Will the market tank under Trump? I wish I had a crystal ball...
US manufacturing boomed under Obama. Not blue collar jobs, though.
Home prices? Anyone else get their damn tax increase notice in the mail? I'm contesting mine. My property tax rose 25% since last year. Thanks...Obama? Or Trump? Anyhoo, it seems to be a sellers market again. Is this bubble gonna pop? If it does...it could under Trump. Any signs the admin is doing anything to prevent the pop? Oh, yeah, removing regulations. That'll help...(ha ha...not).
Price of a gallon of gas? Thanks Obama!
US dept up...deficit down...
Mixed bag for sure. But, the Obama team seemed to steer the boat pretty well, IMHO. Especially given where we were. Is the Trump crew heading us (and by us, I mean all of us) in a good direction? So far, the market seems to like it. Sustainable? We'll see.
I'm sure if we get in a bind, a Russian bank can loan us some cash...someone out there might have some experience with that...
I've said it in the past and I'll say it again since you obviously were not paying attention.... OBAMA INHERITED A GIANT TURD SANDWICH WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
I hope it crashes harder than the Great Crash of '08. The real estate market in Utah (and specifically Salt Lake valley) is off the chain. Like batshit krazy. Been looking for houses along the Wasatch front and you can't find anything decent for under $300K. Crappy 1600 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath homes are selling for $400K+ It's unbelievable. I've talked to numerous people who are selling their homes in SLC -- not because they need to but just because they can get 100K+ for their house and then move somewhere cheap having netted six figures from the sale of their overpriced house. Greed is now driving the market -- at least along the Wasatch front.
I don't really want to see the market crash like that again, but I think that it's inevitable. For the very reason that you are sighting here. Home prices are crazy right now. I've wanted to move for a while now, but I can't bring myself to do it. I could sell my house and make good money off of it right now, but then I'd have to turn around and pay too much for something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
House prices are higher now than they were in 2007-2008 just before it all fell apart. We are a species with a VERY short attention span and an even shorter memory. When they say that if we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doom to repeat them, they mean it. And it apparently only takes about 10 years for us to lose our minds.
The house shortage is because a large portion of the home builders went out of business in the last crash. There will be a new wave of home builders along shortly with the money to be made, and with more homes the prices will stabilize. I also expect interest to rise which will also have the same effect. YMMV
I agree that a lot of them went under in the last crash, and there will be more coming along soon enough. That should help. The problem I'm seeing is that the banks seem to be up to their old tricks again. Loaning people more money than they can really afford to pay back. Also, the population in general seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that if they take on a loan for the amount that the bank will give them, they will go broke. Fast.
So until the home shortage is fixed and the interest rates climb to help out with the prices we're seeing now, more and more people are buying houses they can't afford and banks are happy to help them out with that. And those people will really be in a bad place when the market corrects itself.
Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.
FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.
#Can'tFixStupid
Agreed. 1000%. It's a mess. We are a victim of our own bad choices. That's why I said the banks are doing the wrong thing, but the people buying those houses they can't afford are the ones truly at fault here. Nobody puts a gun to their heads to sign on that dotted line. They do it to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Careful now. Some of us are making a fine living as money lenders. Bankers are people too you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Don't you run a business that is booming, Ice? Send me a message when you are ready to get into a nice new building. I'll hook you up with a killer rate. We'll even get you into an SBA loan so you too can suck at the government tit. :2thumbs:
And if you think Wasatch home prices are crazy, you should check out Tooele County prices. New homes with 1,800 finished sq ft. going for $400,000+. Now that is nuts. But I don't really think we will see a major slow down in the next 24 months at least. There are still too many people moving to Utah and not enough supply, and all of the tech development going on in north Utah County is going to keep em coming. The SL multifamily market still has vacancies under 3% even with all of the new apartments that have opened recently.
:roflol::roflol: :roflol:Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I haven't borrowed money in over 40 years, which is when I began to understand the power of compound interest. If I can't pay cash or self finance a car, house, office building, construction project I look for something else that I can afford.
In the construction industry (I'm a structural engineer) if you make 10% on a project you are doing good, it's almost impossible to make more than that as someone will undercut your bid and be happy with the 10%. So if I'm only making 10% on a project why in the hell would I want to take half of that 10% profit and give it to a banker? That is absolutely crazy in my book.
YMMV
Wait a minute. A guy that loves Trump as much as you do also is anti debt??? Trump is the king of debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
In reality though, going pure debt free is a great way to go on the personal finance side if you can do it, but not usually on the business side in most industries. Let's say you have a spare $1MM sitting around and need a $1MM building. Sure you can pay cash for it and save 5% interest (4% after tax deduction), or you can finance it, pay the 4% and use that cash for other investments. You only need to do better than 4% to get ahead. Plus once you get into bigger deals it's just not plausible to have that much cash. How long would it take for people to save enough to buy a $5,000,000 hotel or apartment? Certainly there is smart debt and stupid debt, but I would be willing to wager that if you compared a list of the 100 wealthiest and indebted folks in Utah that 80 of them would be on the both lists. Money is just way too cheap right now to waste all of your cash.
I understand you argument, I just prefer not to operate that way and it keeps me from getting into trouble. Take 2008 for instance, many companies were operating OPM (Other Peoples Money) and when the economy tanked they still had a large nut to cover but no positive cash flow... and in the end many went bankrupt or were forced to sell assets for 20 cents on the dollar. I'm happy to just sail along collecting my puny 10% every day, just like clockwork. It also greatly reduces the stress factor, which is worth something to me.
Cha-ching.... 22,016.
Thank you Mr. Trump.
Did that back in January (try to keep up...ha ha).Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Despite "Mr. Trump."
Actually it hit 20,000 on January 25th, also on Trumps watch.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...839e2133cb.jpg
Well technically both of them were or are overstepping their boundaries, as did many presidents before them.Quote:
Obama was not the problem as he always did his job. Trump is not the problem as he is doing his job.
The way our country was set up, the Legislative Branch of Government is supposed to make the laws and the Executive Branch of Government is supposed to ensure that the people are following the laws. The president is supposed to be involved sign or veto laws, but he or she isn't supposed to be the one creating or proposing the laws. When was the last president that stayed within the intended boundaries of the Executive Branch? The current and several past presidents (including Obama) are actually part of the problem, or at least the part of the problem of our government not functioning properly.
I mostly agree with this, but a large percentage of people go bankrupt because of medical costs. Before you have said that insurance companies shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions. That would automatically doom anyone with a pre-existing condition to bankruptcy and permanent poverty unless they happened to be very rich.Quote:
Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.
As far us, we just crossed the $45,000 line for medical expenditures for this year. It will not bankrupt us because we save and avoid debt. I can promise you that our net worth has not increased by 20% as you say it will for anyone responsible with their money though.
Since age 16, I have never been unemployed for more than a few weeks. I joined the military on my 17th birthday, got engaged at 18 and bought our first house at age 19. Kim works two jobs and I work a lot as well. We have never bounced a check ever.
Although our medical expenditures wiped out much of our savings in 2010 (about $30,000 plus insurace), 2011 (about $30,000 plus insurance), and 2016-2017 ($45,000+ and climbing), we won't go bankrupt since we saved and have been responsible. We are still doing fine, still have the house, and still get to do some cool things.
If however, the insurance (that we have been paying into for years) didn't cover pre-existing conditions, we probably would have gone bankrupt. Even with the three jobs between us (our 15 year old son works nearly full time as well and starting next week I am on 98 hour work weeks), we don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars laying around. (Not that we would want a handout, but I'd be pissed if insurance companies decided not to cover pre-exiting conditions after we have given them so much money for coverage).
In the US, one surgery can easily cost more than one million dollars. We spend more on medical care per person than any other country by far, but our health care is among the most error prone of developed countries as well.
More and more people are going to go bankrupt because of medical costs.
We'll pay all the bills without going bankrupt, but it shouldn't be implied that a drop in net worth is always due to mismanagement and foolishness.
(And yes, I already know that Obama Care did not lower health care costs if you were going to mention that).
Dang Scott, your insurance SUCKS. They have you on the hook for $45K? Good grief.
How is anybody not named Shane expected to bear those costs and still be able to put food on the table?
I do agree our current system of health care is a dumpster fire.
Before Obama Care I had great healthcare at a fairly reasonable price, now I have shitty healthcare, with an astronomical price tag and with ridiculously high premiums.
Thanks Obama
I do have a pretty good insurance plan in comparison to some others. My wife's heart surgery costs us $13,000 ($6250 max each side of the calendar year) out of a more than a quarter million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Another $12,000+ went to premiums, not including my employers contribution.
Most of the rest went to oral surgeries and trying to save my teeth. I had my jaw shattered when I was a kid and didn't get medical care. The jaw healed itself, but left many cracks that grow bacteria and get infected. Now, a few decades later, parts of bone die and the teeth die as well. Medical insurance will NOT cover this. Supposedly dental insurance is supposed to. Dental insurance only covers $1300 and I have covered the other $20,000 or so (4 oral surgeries, plus some other things). I did get an extra insurance policy that covered a little more, but not much. Further, dental insurance companies claim that replacing teeth ($4500 a piece) is "cosmetic". Apparently having a jaw and teeth is only for aesthetic purposes.
I still have a lot of work to go (which I'm holding off until next year), so if you really do know of an insurance plan that will cover this, then by all means please show it to me and I will buy it. From what I have been able to dig up, ACA does not cover adult dental. If I am incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected.
PS, my son is also in the hospital for the next six days and I have no idea how much that will be.
How many health insurance schemes does it take to make a healthy USA?
Lessee...
Buy-it-yourself general health insurance (e.g. Blue Cross)
Buy-it-yourself dental insurance
Buy-it-yourself vision insurance
Employer-sponsored group plans, with and without dental and vision options
Healthcare.gov (i.e. "Obamacare"), with and without dental and vision options
General workers' compensation
Federal employees workers' compensation (FECA)
Division of Coal Mine Workers' Compensation (DCMWC)
Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation (DEEOIC)
Medicaid
CHIP
Medicare
PEHP
What did I miss?
PEHP -- which is really quite good.Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
WTF! you mean Obama Care is not working for you? I'm shocked!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
/sarcasm
I have always said that Obama care didn't follow through with promises. To be fair though, although rates did rise a lot, they rose the same or a little less each year than before Obama care. The exception is catastrophic plans. Those did go up at a faster rate than before Obama care(but there was more coverage).Quote:
you mean Obama Care is not working for you?
So, no Obama care did not follow through with promises (as many expected, including myself). Rates didn't rise at a higher rate than before Obama care though (though they still did rise astronomically). So, obviously the promises of Obama care didn't come to pass.
That said though, isn't Obama care supposed to be history? Trump said that it would be repealed on day 1.
You may say that Trump tried to repeal it and it was stopped. You would also be 100% correct if you said that.
The reason why the repeal was stopped however, is because what Trump is proposing after the election is the exact opposite of what he promised before the election.
Let's revisit some of the health care promises made by Trump before the election:
I am going to take care of everybody. I don’t care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.
We're going to have insurance for everybody.
There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.
People can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.
They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably—the government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.
Of course that was before he was elected. Once he was elected he did a 180 on healthcare and proposed the exact opposite.
For the record, I personally don't want healthcare to be government paid (as Trump promised before the election), but I want to see cost stop rising astronomically, and for prices to be reaonable just as you do.
If Trump or anyone else would do this, I would be the first to jump on that bandwagon.
Edit:
Trump actually deleted his healthcare promises off this own website:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...lthcare-reform
Unemployment hits a 16 year low.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-...-43-2017-08-04
Thanks Trump.
[emoji631]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3effe12df4.jpg
And in other news.... Congress goes on vacation after getting nothing done.
Don't worry; your politicians are no different from ours!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
A JOB!!!
....
Total so far $48,547.40. Not much left in the bank account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
....
,,,
Kaboom!!! Trump just took out his war club in Phoenix and pounded the snot out of the main stream media among other targets. If nothing else it was certainly entertaining.
:popcorn:
I watched it on CNN just to see how they would react. It's all out war, baby...they completely flipped out. I mean WAR...the gloves are off now. I think it's about to get a LOT worse and that suits me just fine.
He also called out the lightweight Republicans in Congress. Nobody but Trump could do this. I think he's just straight up awesome. I'm also in love with Katie Pavlich.