President Trump

[Iceaxe]

PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?

[devo_stevo]

PS - The stock market broke another all time record today. Is anyone getting tired of winning yet?

I'm getting pretty sick of all of the work that keeps knocking down my door around here. I've had to turn a bunch of jobs away because I just can't get it all done. It's crazy right now.

That's sarcasm btw. Things are great, but I'd like to be home more with my family. Maybe a day off. I'm going to go on vacation in a week from now and I had to buy a new laptop so that I can work in the hotel room at night. Oh well. Gots to pay the bills.

[rockgremlin]

You know, I think this really speaks to the resiliency of the American stock market. Because I'm not convinced that the market is doing so well just because The Donald is commander in chief.

I mean, I could be wrong, but somebody please tell me how Trump is directly responsible for the market doing so well? Is that attributed to the Russians as well?

[Iceaxe]

I mean, I could be wrong, but somebody please tell me how Trump is directly responsible for the market doing so well? Is that attributed to the Russians as well?

The one place that Trump has been tremendously successful and that most of the mainstream media refuses to report is in removing rules and regulations that stifle business. Last time I check Trump had pulled or suspended over 860 regulations. But why report on that when you have a Russian unicorn to chase.

And part of the rise in stocks is nothing more than emotions and the business world believing the president is in their corner.

All of this is pretty much the exact opposite of Obama and the reason Obama could never really get the economy rolling and why Obama had the worst economic growth of any president in history (he never had even one quartet with 3% growth).

Anyhoo, I hope that answers at least some of your question.

[Iceaxe]

And just for the record, our President is NOT the problem.

Obama was not the problem as he always did his job. Trump is not the problem as he is doing his job.

The Supreme Court is not the problem as they are doing their job.

One of these days American's are going to realize it's our legislative branch of government that is not doing their job. Our Senator's and Representatives become entrenched and beholding to special interests and not the American public. The only way to clean up this mess is to enact term limits.

[Rob L]

I like Iceaxe's post above. In my very humble opinion, every democratic political system has its problems; no method of government is perfect, nor can it be. We have our political "issues" here in the UK (and indeed throughout Europe) as you have over on your side of the pond.

I actually don't like the so-called democratic "one man one vote" system (please excuse the sexism) but most of the alternatives are not so favourable. Many countries, like yours and mine have a duocracy.. whether we like it or not.

Rob

[hank moon]

One of these days American's are going to realize it's our legislative branch of government that is not doing their job. Our Senator's and Representatives become entrenched and beholding to special interests and not the American public. The only way to clean up this mess is to enact term limits.

We passed that realization decades ago. Now, it's on us to make change happen (i.e. Congress won't fix itself). That realization may take awhile as folks seem content w/blaming others.

[Brian in SLC]

And part of the rise in stocks is nothing more than emotions and the business world believing the president is in their corner.

All of this is pretty much the exact opposite of Obama and the reason Obama could never really get the economy rolling and why Obama had the worst economic growth of any president in history (he never had even one quartet with 3% growth).

You keep touting Trump and the stock market...Obama had a pretty darn good run with the Dow too.

Average economic growth since 1969 is only 3.1 percent...but, he inherited a negative growth from the previous two years, and, had positive growth his entire term.

Average household income is an indicator...and, it plummeted after the 2007 to 2009 down turn. And, under Obama, its came back to nearly the 2007 level.

Stocks? 200% growth under Obama. There's a cliff out there. Will the market tank under Trump? I wish I had a crystal ball...

US manufacturing boomed under Obama. Not blue collar jobs, though.

Home prices? Anyone else get their damn tax increase notice in the mail? I'm contesting mine. My property tax rose 25% since last year. Thanks...Obama? Or Trump? Anyhoo, it seems to be a sellers market again. Is this bubble gonna pop? If it does...it could under Trump. Any signs the admin is doing anything to prevent the pop? Oh, yeah, removing regulations. That'll help...(ha ha...not).

Price of a gallon of gas? Thanks Obama!

US dept up...deficit down...

Mixed bag for sure. But, the Obama team seemed to steer the boat pretty well, IMHO. Especially given where we were. Is the Trump crew heading us (and by us, I mean all of us) in a good direction? So far, the market seems to like it. Sustainable? We'll see.

I'm sure if we get in a bind, a Russian bank can loan us some cash...someone out there might have some experience with that...

[Iceaxe]

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again since you obviously were not paying attention.... OBAMA INHERITED A GIANT TURD SANDWICH WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.

[rockgremlin]

Anyhoo, it seems to be a sellers market again. Is this bubble gonna pop? If it does...it could under Trump. Any signs the admin is doing anything to prevent the pop? Oh, yeah, removing regulations. That'll help...(ha ha...not).

I hope it crashes harder than the Great Crash of '08. The real estate market in Utah (and specifically Salt Lake valley) is off the chain. Like batshit krazy. Been looking for houses along the Wasatch front and you can't find anything decent for under $300K. Crappy 1600 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath homes are selling for $400K+ It's unbelievable. I've talked to numerous people who are selling their homes in SLC -- not because they need to but just because they can get 100K+ for their house and then move somewhere cheap having netted six figures from the sale of their overpriced house. Greed is now driving the market -- at least along the Wasatch front.

[devo_stevo]

I hope it crashes harder than the Great Crash of '08. The real estate market in Utah (and specifically Salt Lake valley) is off the chain. Like batshit krazy. Been looking for houses along the Wasatch front and you can't find anything decent for under $300K. Crappy 1600 sq ft 3 bed 1 bath homes are selling for $400K+ It's unbelievable. I've talked to numerous people who are selling their homes in SLC -- not because they need to but just because they can get 100K+ for their house and then move somewhere cheap having netted six figures from the sale of their overpriced house. Greed is now driving the market -- at least along the Wasatch front.

I don't really want to see the market crash like that again, but I think that it's inevitable. For the very reason that you are sighting here. Home prices are crazy right now. I've wanted to move for a while now, but I can't bring myself to do it. I could sell my house and make good money off of it right now, but then I'd have to turn around and pay too much for something else.

House prices are higher now than they were in 2007-2008 just before it all fell apart. We are a species with a VERY short attention span and an even shorter memory. When they say that if we don't learn from the mistakes of the past, we are doom to repeat them, they mean it. And it apparently only takes about 10 years for us to lose our minds.

[Iceaxe]

The house shortage is because a large portion of the home builders went out of business in the last crash. There will be a new wave of home builders along shortly with the money to be made, and with more homes the prices will stabilize. I also expect interest to rise which will also have the same effect. YMMV

[devo_stevo]

I agree that a lot of them went under in the last crash, and there will be more coming along soon enough. That should help. The problem I'm seeing is that the banks seem to be up to their old tricks again. Loaning people more money than they can really afford to pay back. Also, the population in general seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that if they take on a loan for the amount that the bank will give them, they will go broke. Fast.

So until the home shortage is fixed and the interest rates climb to help out with the prices we're seeing now, more and more people are buying houses they can't afford and banks are happy to help them out with that. And those people will really be in a bad place when the market corrects itself.

[Iceaxe]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupid

[devo_stevo]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupid

Agreed. 1000%. It's a mess. We are a victim of our own bad choices. That's why I said the banks are doing the wrong thing, but the people buying those houses they can't afford are the ones truly at fault here. Nobody puts a gun to their heads to sign on that dotted line. They do it to themselves.

[uintafly]

Ahh... so we are back to my old saying... people are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor because they don't know how to manage money.

FWIW - I believe history in 1000 years will look back at our credit system as a form of slavery. What else can you call it when a large number of people give 10 to 20% of their income to those who understand how to manage money.

#Can'tFixStupid

Careful now. Some of us are making a fine living as money lenders. Bankers are people too you know.

Don't you run a business that is booming, Ice? Send me a message when you are ready to get into a nice new building. I'll hook you up with a killer rate. We'll even get you into an SBA loan so you too can suck at the government tit.

And if you think Wasatch home prices are crazy, you should check out Tooele County prices. New homes with 1,800 finished sq ft. going for $400,000+. Now that is nuts. But I don't really think we will see a major slow down in the next 24 months at least. There are still too many people moving to Utah and not enough supply, and all of the tech development going on in north Utah County is going to keep em coming. The SL multifamily market still has vacancies under 3% even with all of the new apartments that have opened recently.

[Iceaxe]

Careful now. Some of us are making a fine living as money lenders. Bankers are people too you know.

Don't you run a business that is booming, Ice? Send me a message when you are ready to get into a nice new building. I'll hook you up with a killer rate. We'll even get you into an SBA loan so you too can suck at the government tit.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I haven't borrowed money in over 40 years, which is when I began to understand the power of compound interest. If I can't pay cash or self finance a car, house, office building, construction project I look for something else that I can afford.

In the construction industry (I'm a structural engineer) if you make 10% on a project you are doing good, it's almost impossible to make more than that as someone will undercut your bid and be happy with the 10%. So if I'm only making 10% on a project why in the hell would I want to take half of that 10% profit and give it to a banker? That is absolutely crazy in my book.

YMMV

[uintafly]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I haven't borrowed money in over 40 years, which is when I began to understand the power of compound interest. If I can't pay cash or self finance a car, house, office building, construction project I look for something else that I can afford.

In the construction industry (I'm a structural engineer) if you make 10% on a project you are doing good, it's almost impossible to make more than that as someone will undercut your bid and be happy with the 10%. So if I'm only making 10% on a project why in the hell would I want to take half of that 10% profit and give it to a banker? That is absolutely crazy in my book.

YMMV

Wait a minute. A guy that loves Trump as much as you do also is anti debt??? Trump is the king of debt.

In reality though, going pure debt free is a great way to go on the personal finance side if you can do it, but not usually on the business side in most industries. Let's say you have a spare $1MM sitting around and need a $1MM building. Sure you can pay cash for it and save 5% interest (4% after tax deduction), or you can finance it, pay the 4% and use that cash for other investments. You only need to do better than 4% to get ahead. Plus once you get into bigger deals it's just not plausible to have that much cash. How long would it take for people to save enough to buy a $5,000,000 hotel or apartment? Certainly there is smart debt and stupid debt, but I would be willing to wager that if you compared a list of the 100 wealthiest and indebted folks in Utah that 80 of them would be on the both lists. Money is just way too cheap right now to waste all of your cash.

[Iceaxe]

I understand you argument, I just prefer not to operate that way and it keeps me from getting into trouble. Take 2008 for instance, many companies were operating OPM (Other Peoples Money) and when the economy tanked they still had a large nut to cover but no positive cash flow... and in the end many went bankrupt or were forced to sell assets for 20 cents on the dollar. I'm happy to just sail along collecting my puny 10% every day, just like clockwork. It also greatly reduces the stress factor, which is worth something to me.

[Iceaxe]

Cha-ching.... 22,016.

Thank you Mr. Trump.