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Thread: Playin' with a fiddlestick....

  1. #1

    Playin' with a fiddlestick....

    So I spent some time playing with a fiddlestick this weekend.... and my previous opinion remains unchanged. The fiddlestick does have a use, and 99.99% of all canyoneers will never encounter such a situation or ever have need of a fiddlestick. The fiddlestick is exponentially more dangerous then the typical methods of toss-n-go and biner blocks. The item the fiddlestick is best at is impressing your friends with silly and dangerous rope tricks, while hoping they will be in awe of your skillzz....

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    The ladezz were impressed with my ability to handle such a big stick....

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  4. #2
    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    The ladezz were impressed with my ability to handle such a big stick....
    I bet! Surely a new experience for you.

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  6. #3
    Nice [edit] pic and pose there Shane.


    Another retrievable anchor thread!

    Curious what you recommend as the best retrievable anchor then? Or, you are suggesting never to use ghosting techniques? I know there are many who do not recommend ghosting, hooks, etc.

    What constitutes the 0.01% use?

    I know some areas request that no webbing is left behind to be seen by casual hikers (i.e. Cassidy Arch). Is your opinion to leave webbing around the tree?

    I've used both a fiddlestick type (PVC) a little, and the Omnisling (or just a webbing loop) some. For me personally, I'm not convinced which method I like best. However I am sensitive to others around me and how they use (and perceive) the outdoors (i.e. hiking only) which may be different than how I enjoy it (i.e. canyoneering).

    I didn't bring up the advantages of rope pulls, as a fiddlestick can help reduce rope grooves and getting things stuck.

  7. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute Gravity View Post
    LOL!



    I bet! Surely a new experience for you.

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  9. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
    Curious what you recommend as the best retrievable anchor then?
    All of the systems you mention use a toggle.... and any system with a toggle has a greatly reduced margin of safety and a greater chance of operator error.

    For the 99.99% of the world that needs a retrievable anchor for the occasional rappel (Cassidy Arch, Lomatium, ect). I would suggest the one pictured below because it does not contain a toggle. It is by far the easiest and safest retrievable anchor I know of. This is a much safer technique as the anchor will not release with the rappel line in it.


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  11. #6
    Here is another retrievable anchor method that does not require a toggle. The first picture has a biner as a safety device. Second picture is for the last man down (LMAR).





  12. #7
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Here is another retrievable anchor method that does not require a toggle. The first picture has a biner as a safety device. Second picture is for the last man down (LMAR).




    What is it you think happens with this system?

    Tom

  13. #8
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    So I spent some time playing with a fiddlestick this weekend.... and my previous opinion remains unchanged. The fiddlestick does have a use, and 99.99% of all canyoneers will never encounter such a situation or ever have need of a fiddlestick. The fiddlestick is exponentially more dangerous then the typical methods of toss-n-go and biner blocks. The item the fiddlestick is best at is impressing your friends with silly and dangerous rope tricks, while hoping they will be in awe of your skillzz....

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    I am very happy to have your anti-endorsement for this product. Thanks Shane.

    Tom

  14. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    What is it you think happens with this system?
    I already know what happens....




    System 2 was posted for comment and to show another retrievable system that didn't use a toggle. The only time I have used system 2 was showing off for the ladezz.....

  15. #10
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I already know what happens....




    System 2 was posted for comment and to show another retrievable system that didn't use a toggle. The only time I have used system 2 was showing off for the ladezz.....

    Yeah, try that with 60 feet of rope out, and I think you will see that it does not work.

    (YMMV, closed course, professional bickerers at work)

    Tom

  16. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I already know what happens....




    System 2 was posted for comment and to show another retrievable system that didn't use a toggle. The only time I have used system 2 was showing off for the ladezz.....
    You could put a ring on the one end of webbing to prevent rope on webbing drag. Higher chance of getting caught possibly on the pull.

    Also have seen the double ring method, where one is bigger than the other allowing a pull through.

    I certainly prefer any method that requires 2x rope rather than 3x.

  17. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    Yeah, try that with 60 feet of rope out, and I think you will see that it does not work.

    (YMMV, closed course, professional bickerers at work)

    Tom
    I've done it with 200 feet of rope in action at the first rappel of Shillelagh. What's next, Tom? Are you going to call Iceaxe an anti-Semite for not agreeing with you? The fiddlestick is a unnecessary product. Deal with it.

  18. #13
    I've done it with 200 feet of rope in action at the first rappel of Shillelagh.
    What was it like? Im interested in hearing more about this method.

    I've never tried it, but it seems like once the webbing gets pulled around the anchor point, it would act as a pulley and for each X amount of feet you pulled down, your pull cord would only come up a fraction of that?

    Also, I'd imagine that using a bigger anchor like a large boulder would make the pull very difficult, maybe impossible.

    Are you going to call Iceaxe an anti-Semite for not agreeing with you?
    Was that a MK reference? If so, have you read what he wrote, "anti-semetic" is the most accurate way to describe it for sure.

    You could put a ring on the one end of webbing to prevent rope on webbing drag.
    I like this idea Mountaineer, on longer pulls, without a ring the rope would likely cause significant damage to a sling/webbing.

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  20. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    Yeah, try that with 60 feet of rope out, and I think you will see that it does not work.

    (YMMV, closed course, professional bickerers at work)

    Tom
    Bickering aside, seems this method is risky: as the rope pulls it could get caught around the webbing and anchor point.

    Other experience out there with this method?

    Simple idea, if effective.

  21. #15
    Fiddlestick or no fiddlestick.... thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    The ladezz were impressed with my ability to handle such a big stick....

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    Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit
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  23. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SRG View Post
    Was that a MK reference? If so, have you read what he wrote, "anti-semetic" is the most accurate way to describe it for sure..
    I don't think so. He's very anti Israel (the state of).

    MK: "A couple of weeks ago, as I was watching the Israelis bomb and slaughter innocent people is Gaza on TV, I got so mad I wrote a rather rambling letter to the Editors of a number of newspapers, and to all of you. It wasn’t too well thought out, and I guess it’s not a good idea to mix politics with people you don’t know that well."

    MK: "If anybody critizies Jews or Israel in any way, they are considered anti-Semitic."

    The definition: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage."

    I think MK used some unfortunate language in his letter to the editor, but, I asked him directly if he was antisemitic. He's very anti Isreal. I think there's a difference. Maybe those lines are blurred for some...and, maybe some of his thoughts and words related to his position on Isreal, the US support of Isreal, etc, muddy those lines up.

    Anyhoo...

  24. #17
    I hereby nominate this as the best fiddlestick thread. All other fiddlestick threads are all null and voided. Until the first deaths start occurring, then those threads automatically null and void this thread.

    Enjoy your supremacy while it lasts Iceaxe. If you have any other pics of you playing with your monster shaft, they are appreciated as well.
    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  25. #18
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Mr. K's letter to many editors are posted here, along with a revealing email of transmittal:

    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0901kelsey/

    If you cannot see Mr. K's anti-Semitism in his words, then may Yahweh help you out of your blindness.

    Here's a pithy quote to help you out:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. K
    And speaking of Jews, this morning at 7:40am, CNBC had Henry Kissenger telling the American people how bad the Falistines were, and that it was all their fault for the fighting in Gaza (Never mind that it was the Jews/Zionist who invaded all of Falistine throughout the 1900's!, and who now control it all).
    Immediately after that, they interviewed David Stern, the commissioner of the NBA. He's another Jew, who at times, wears that silly-looking hat in public. He's trying to conquer the world via Basketball.


    And at Noon today, 1/5/2009, Gov. Jon Huntsman, who I used to admire until today, took the oath of office for the 2nd time. And as usual, with one hand on the bible. After that there were a number of other people sworn into office, all with one hand on a bible. But even before all the swearing took place, they had of all people, a F'ing Rabbi give the opening prayer. Never did see a Native American as part of the program, or in the crowd. So much for Liberty and JUSTICE FOR ALL.


    Tonight I saw on TV, the ceremony for the county commissioners and Peter Coroon, mayor of Salt Lake County--no bibles there, and no, "So Help Me ---" at the end.


    I tried to look up the percent of Utahn's who were Native Americans & Jews, but I guess the Census folk doesn't ask such questions. But I'll bet there's about 10 times more Native Americans in Utah than Jews.


    If 1.6% of Americans are Jewish, and they sort of control America; and America sort of controls the World, then what religious group sort of controls the World (the group I'm talking about, I believe, number about 20 million on the planet).


    Thanks for your time. MRK


  26. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcricket View Post
    I hereby nominate this as the best fiddlestick thread.
    Second
    Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit
    http://www.rmru.org/

    Personal Website
    http://www.DrunkRedDragon.com/adventures.htm

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  28. #20
    I would say the Fiddlestick is way safer than posting revealing pics of your wife & kids on the internet, but that's just me.....

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