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Thread: Rope grooves & rappeling
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05-26-2011, 12:56 PM #21
70% of rope grooving in caused by laziness... probably anther 29% cause by lack of experience/lack of skills....
Most of the rope groove problems could be easily solved if we all just stepped up to the plate and do out part in providing a proper anchor and/or mentoring the less skilled.
Dang…. You can really see a long ways from the top of this horse!
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05-26-2011 12:56 PM # ADS
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05-26-2011, 01:13 PM #22
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05-26-2011, 01:45 PM #23
I took a look at the slide show for the Spirol Rope Protector. Looks like it's main purpose is to do exaxctly what it's name says- protect your rope from sharp edges, etc., not so much to try and save the rock. Seems fairly flexible and would perhaps pull okay but wraps so tightly around the rope that it may not do any good for the rock. You could easily envision it grinding it's way in. Perhaps it's smoother surface would be less abrasive than the rope itself. Obviously not designed for the sandstone that canyoneers have to deal with - just look at the rock in the photo, but would it help?
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05-26-2011, 02:27 PM #24
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05-26-2011, 02:32 PM #25
Yes, it would.
Again, there are many things we can do in a non-pull-through environment. And we should do. But the normal canyoneering scenario is a pull-through environment, and that is a tougher nut to crack. I think Mark Smith may be onto something that will work. We'll see.
Tom
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05-26-2011, 08:42 PM #26
There has been a discussion going on over on the Canyon Group about a releasable Stone Knot. A concept was posted about using a screwdriver in place of the biner in a stone knot and then pulling the screwdriver to release the knot. One leg of the knot would only be a few feet long and when released it would either feed around the anchor or feed thru the rapide and come falling down. I have been thinking about this for a few days and decided to add a keeper pin to the rod to prevent pre release.
Here are some pictures of a couple of devices I created today. The larger one is a 1/2" tube and is actually easier to pull then the 3/8 rod. What makes the tube pull out easily is when you pull it the tube rotates the Stone Knot so the tube is vertical and pulls right out. The pull down cord needs to be extended out a little from the knot to create the needed leverage. The smaller one struggles to rotate the knot. When pulling the pull cord the keeper pin pulls and then the tube pulls. The keeper pin is the size of the ones used on a hitch pin for a truck. Tom had the idea to put the pin in the middle of the knot and I think that is the way to set it up.
https://picasaweb.google.com/markimsmith/StoneKnot#
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05-26-2011, 09:03 PM #27
Here is one more picture showing how it pulls. I have played with this in a controlled environment (20' rappels in a gym) and seems to work quite well. Needs to be tested in the real world.
Edit in the real world I would leave a tail that is a couple of ft long. But for the picture I shortened it up.
Mark
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05-27-2011, 04:58 AM #28
I played around with the 1/2" tube and it has the same problem as the 1" wood dowel I started with. When pulling the rappel strand it will pop free but the loop in the release side still holds it shape and the knot cinches down on itself. The rod has to be 3/8" or smaller to successfully collapse each time.
Here is a picture showing what happens with the 1/2" tube.
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05-27-2011, 07:02 AM #29
While I appreciate the ingenuity of that rappel rig; for me personally, any system that requires tension on a removable piece for a safe rappel is too dangerous.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, and I'm also not saying it doesn't work a majority of the time, but that one time where you miss it and the pieces slips or gets pushed out by the rock, or whatever, is in my opinion too great a risk. Cool idea though.
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05-27-2011, 07:10 AM #30
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05-27-2011, 07:12 AM #31
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05-27-2011, 10:18 AM #32
If you do it right you've rigged it for the first person with it backed up and tested it with each subsequent person until the last person goes. That way you can greatly reduce the chance that something goes wrong because you've already tested it with two or 3 people with the back up. and then the experienced last person is extra careful.
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05-27-2011, 11:10 AM #33
I'll try that. One twist I tried is where the two strands go over the tube or rod I crossed them with the rappel strand on top of the release strand. You cannot have the pin in the middle under this scenerio. When the rappel strand is pulled it seems to pop the release strand out with it. From what I am seeing the rod needs to be small to be comfortable with a guaranteed release. On the 3/8's one I drilled the hole big enough for the hitch pin but there isn't much meat to the rod for it to click on. Also when using the small rod I see absolutely no slippage in the Stone Knot. If someone can come up with a different idea for a pin we would be in business. Or just make the rod about 10" long and it should be solid. Once the knot has been dressed the pin is going nowhere. We tried to pull the short pin while on rappel and that is never going to happen. It wouldn't move a 1/4".
Mark
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05-29-2011, 05:58 AM #34
Anybody ever played with one of the double microcenders? If one of the jaws was going in the other direction may work for a releasable device? One set of jaws on rappel strand, one on the short end. Have a pull release on short side and the device would come down on the rappel strand? Yea it would be pricey but hey may work. May also break on the first drop. Would need to be tough and maybe rubber coated. It's price is right on Shanes threshold.
Mark
http://www.rockexotica.com/products/...s_camming.html
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04-27-2012, 10:18 PM #35
Bump
There is a discussion going on in another thread about fiddlesticks. If you look up a couple of posts you can see some pictures of the ones I was playing with. I could not get them to consistently collapse.
Mark
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04-28-2012, 06:09 AM #36
Yours is not a stone hitch, others have had similar release problems when tied improper.
When tied as I showed in "how do you stein" I have had it release everytime, up to 200'(really pretty fun to watch come down)
Just make sure your pull path is clear, so the dowell cannot get lodged in a crack or ??
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04-29-2012, 08:18 AM #37
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04-29-2012, 08:45 AM #38
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04-29-2012, 09:17 AM #39
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04-29-2012, 09:21 AM #40
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