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Thread: various prussik applications
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03-19-2015, 06:50 PM #1
various prussik applications
So I've been reading about various techniques for using prussik loops and other auto blocks and friction hitches for safety, ascending a rope, etc... some say above rappel device some say below... Is this preference or depending on application?
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03-19-2015 06:50 PM # ADS
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03-19-2015, 07:28 PM #2
I'll make this real simple for ya.... as a general rule we don't use Prussiks, friction hitches or auto blocks in canyoneering while on rappel for various reasons. We also don't normally knot the ends of our rappel ropes.
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03-19-2015, 07:49 PM #3
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03-19-2015, 10:12 PM #4
When I'm with someone who doesn't have much experience or is nervous about the rappel, I'll rig them, double check them, then, rappel on the same rope. Once at the bottom, I can provide the fireman's belay as a safety for them. Works pretty well.
That said, I have a few friends who rappel with a back up, especially off high angle rock climbs. They use an autoblock below their rappel device and extend their rappel device off their harness. Seems to work quickly for them and fairly secure.
No back up's in running water.
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03-20-2015, 07:18 AM #5
I have never really understood why some people put a prussic above their rap device. seems weird to me. I don't use one in either position and find that with a good rap device, like a CRITR, I don't need a fireman's belay either, much less an autoblock
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03-20-2015, 08:44 AM #6
various prussik applications
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03-20-2015, 09:02 AM #7THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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03-20-2015, 09:14 AM #8
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03-20-2015, 09:46 AM #9
X4
We always provide a firemen's belay for everyone that follows when practical, it just makes good commonsense.
And for the record I've caught several people over the years using the fireman, a couple would have ended in disaster, and one was a highly experienced canyoneer. My daughter also saved someone's ass on the Mystery Springs rappel because she was paying attention and had been taught to always provided a fireman when practical.
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03-20-2015, 10:23 AM #10
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03-20-2015, 10:54 AM #11
We generally keep our most experienced person up top to rappel last, as most problems and rescues can only be completed from above. Now if everyone in your group has mad skillz it's a different story. Noob's should certainly be put in the rocking chair position (in the middle) when given the opportunity. The ideal situation is to have skill both above and below the inexperienced. If I'm the only person with god like skillz in the group and I'm with beginners or kids I generally top belay the first person down.
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03-20-2015, 11:03 AM #12But no one has any justification for a prussick above the rap device?Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.
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03-20-2015, 12:24 PM #13
In my group the first person down almost always uses an autoblock below the rap device. If for some reason they unexpectedly let go of the rope the the autoblock will catch and hold them, this technique does require some practice to get it right. I think the prussik above the rap device is an old and out dated technique and a good way to get yourself stuck on a rope. We always provide a fireman when practical. Just the way we do things. We also say that nobody is too skilled or above a double check from somebody else in the group. Obviously not the only way to do it, this is just what we have found works for us.
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03-20-2015, 02:19 PM #14
While practicing with my son I have been using a fireman's belay or just let him climb up and I give a tight normal belay and let him down slow so he can practice his footing and sitting down in his harness. I have really been urging him to use his feet and create distance from the rock so he can see and choose footholds... he has a tendency to grab the rope, so the fireman's has proved useful on the Lil 15ft limestone block wall we have been using for this!... I hope to build his courage, confidence and skills in preparation for the trip!
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03-20-2015, 04:05 PM #15
I generally use a French wrap (Kleimheist) below my descender - particularly on longer rappels or when there is a chance of rockfall. Simple and added safety - rappelling is when many/most accidents occur - especially when tapped out at the end of a trip. I would not consider a Prussik. Too easily jammed.
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03-20-2015, 06:59 PM #16
Well...for climbing...there's the ANAM data:
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03-20-2015, 07:06 PM #17
We don't encourage auto blocks when giving instructions, but a fireman's belay should always be done. If anyone is to use a hitch for a back up, I like to use a VT French Braid Prussik. If anyone uses an "Auto-Block" no matter what kind it is, they should know how to set it up properly, test it, and then be able to get out of it if it engages before trying it out on a real deal rappel. Reading the concept of how to tie it out of a book is a lot different than using it. We generally shy away from them as much as possible in canyoneering. I know it's always a "What if", but in a decade + of doing this, I've never had a need for an auto hitching back up.
Jared Hillhouse
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03-20-2015, 07:08 PM #18
And never, ever would I use a safety ABOVE my descender.
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03-20-2015, 07:09 PM #19
No one ever needs one - until they do.
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03-20-2015, 07:44 PM #20
I guess I should clarify my earlier post in that when I don't go first, there is always someone there at the bottom ready to do a fireman's, but they are not actually pulling on the rope- but could in a moment's notice if they needed. I have gone with one person in particular that always wants an "active" fireman's belay (in that I am helping them increase their own friction by pulling down on the rope). I know this isn't probably what most people do and this person should be able to rap without that assistance (and probably could with a better device)... so, the "active" fireman's belay is a bit different than just having someone there not pulling the rope, but ready to pull if needed.
It's like leaning on a crutch needed someone at the bottom to pull down all the time to help you increase the friction to descend at your chosen rate. So what I could have said is I don't feel like I need an "active" fireman's belay.
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