BLM controversy in Southern Utah

[ratagonia]

Nah...nobody's brought his name up yet.

I have no idea if Reid or his son or any other conniving member of the Nevada legislature is in on this or not. I just like busting Reid chops because I think he's such of friggin' moron.

He reminds me of Senator Geary from The Godfather Part ll. Just a pure slimeball.

Unfortunately, there are a few things, Byron, that we can agree on.

Tom

[Scott P]

On thing I can say is that I'm glad I don't work for the BLM in that area.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...rld&id=9504436

Bundy, whose family has operated a ranch since the 1870s southwest of Mesquite a few miles from the Utah line, does not recognize federal authority on the land that he insists belongs to Nevada.

On Saturday, the bureau released about 400 head of cattle it had seized from Bundy. The operation had been expected to take a month to collect as many as 900 cattle.


The animals were freed after armed militia members joined hundreds of states' rights protesters at corrals outside Mesquite. Bundy said they were united in defense of their constitutional rights.


"They have faith in the Constitution," he told KDWN-AM in Las Vegas on Monday. "The founding fathers didn't create a government like this."


The BLM's National Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board was meeting in Sacramento on Monday on the broader issue fueling the conflict over how to divide the scarce forage on mostly dry lands across the West between livestock, wild horses and wildlife.


Wild-horse protection advocates say the government is rounding up too many mustangs while allowing sheep and cattle to feed at taxpayer expense on the same rangeland scientists say is being overgrazed. Ranchers say the government refuses to gather enough horses in the herds that double in size every five years.


Advocates on both sides accused the board of not addressing their concerns.


"Americans want wild horses on our public lands," said wild horse advocate Bonnie Kohleriter. "You cattlemen and wildlife people are special interest groups. You need to stop attacking the wild horses, attempting to diminish their numbers, and make resources available to them."


Debra Hawk, a biologist representing the Wildlife Society, said the BLM's failure to cut the number of wild horses is harming other species that rely on the land. She criticized the agency for indicating it may not continue the horse roundups, saying the BLM should "utilize all methods available" to cut the population.


"Not conducting roundups will result in further degradation of native ranges, harming native wildlife and plants," and is better for the health of native horses, she said.


Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said she spent much of the past week with the Bundy family and helped feed some of the calves that were returned over the weekend.


"It's going to take a lot to revive the calves that were nearly dead when they were returned to the Bundy Ranch because they had been separated from their mothers during the roundup, and a few most likely won't make it," said Fiore, a Republican from Las Vegas. "It's time for Nevada to stand up to the federal government and demand the return of the BLM lands to the people of Nevada."


Horse protection advocates and other critics of livestock grazing on federal land said the government's suspension of the roundup sends the wrong signal to law-abiding ranchers who secure the necessary grazing permits to use the land.


The BLM "is allowing a freeloading rancher and armed thugs to seize hundreds of thousands of acres of the people's land as their own," said Rob Mrowka, a senior scientist for the Center for Biological Diversity. "It's backing down in the face of threats and posturing of armed sovereignists."

[Byron]

Unfortunately, there are a few things, Byron, that we can agree on.

Tom

Why in God's name does that have to be unfortunate? I don't care that you're a super liberal dude...I think it's great when you bust out some really good stuff. Unfortunate for you perhaps, but not for me.

[Byron]

Wild-horse protection advocates say the government is rounding up too many mustangs while allowing sheep and cattle to feed at taxpayer expense on the same rangeland scientists say is being overgrazed. Ranchers say the government refuses to gather enough horses in the herds that double in size every five years.


"

So that is what it's all about. Freeloaders...horses or cows.

[oldno7]

Unfortunately, there are a few things, Byron, that we can agree on.

Tom

Fortunately, though, Byron didn't vote for the current Pres. who condones torture and runs gitmo with pride!

I think you mentioned the last Pres. who did that should have been tried for war crimes in the Hague.

Am I wrong here? Is your guy enjoying his new whips and chains?

[oldno7]

So that is what it's all about. Freeloaders...horses or cows.

In the end, government corruption will be the fact.

If Bundy could shut his mouth he might be vindicated.

So much more to come out of this....

All sides are conjecture, mostly at this point.

[double moo]

Any thought on whether this event will embolden other groups to arm up to protest their government grievences?

[oldno7]

Any thought on whether this event will embolden other groups to arm up to protest their government grievences?

The government should fear the people, thats a healthy situation for a republic.

Keep an eye on the Texas/Oklahoma border, blm is trying to confiscate land there.

[oldno7]

This is the page that the blm took down from their website

http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

[Scott P]

This is the page that the blm took down from their website

http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

Why did they take it down? It seems to make the case for them.

It sounds like more than just the turtle was involved:

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle

• One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
• Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
• Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
• Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
• Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.
• Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.

This morning, I was going to post that I mostly side with the rancher on this one. I believe that conservation is very important, but I feel bad about it hurting a long established business. For new coming businesses or uses, things would be different. I want to support conservation (especially of roadless/wild areas), but I don't want to hurt anyone that has been farming or ranching for a long time. Because I so much love the wild lands and care about people as well, I actually think a lot about this and am conflicted with it at times.

The damage to private property and other issues kind of diminishes much of the sympathy I had though. It seems as he thinks that because his family was there first (?), even other private property owners don't have a claim to the land? Or perhaps there is more to this? It also appears, at least in court records that the cattle have expanded far beyond the original Bunkerville Allotment, which is where historically the cattle had been grazed.

Also, the argument has been used that Bundy's ancestors had been grazing cattle in the valley since 1877, but the grazing of the Bunkerville Allotment wasn't in the 1800's, it began in 1954 and lasted only a few years before being reinstated in 1973 before ending in 1993.

It seems that there is a lot more to it than just a turtle.

[oldno7]

Why did they take it down? .

Great Question...

I'm thinking this paragraph.

• Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

[lynnhowlyn]

Interesting article on the relationships between the Reid's and the BLM and the Bundy's. Even the BLM's page (now taken down) shows reference of the bundy cattle and the solar farm;

"Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle."

In any case, it's clear to me that their is far too much involvement between Reid, his family, and the BLM. Too many coincidences to ignore. Even the Washington Times thinks so;

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...utm_medium=RSS

I agree that it was likely pressure from higher up the ladder that killed this and not so much the protestors. Coming into an election season is the wrong time for Reid to be associated with back room dealings.

Relative to stuff previously posted on the BLM website and now taken down, take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFio...&feature=share

and ask yourself WHY was the information taken OFF the BLM website.

YMMV

Lynn

[oldno7]

Maybe in situations like this, zero will unleash this.


Of course it would be for the children and if it can save just one life.............

[cchoc]

If you people would quit sleeping with the lights on we wouldn't need those Chinese solar panels. HTH :)

[Scott P]

Originally Posted by Scott P
Why did they take it down? .



Great Question...

I'm thinking this paragraph.

• Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

If so, why wouldn't they just remove the paragraph with the reference to solar instead of some of the things the cattle have been doing to private property et al? The BLM has removed all references to the Bundy Ranch, including violations. It seems as if they kept everything else on their website pertaining to the solar:

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/new...ergy_Zone.html

They even kept the possible negative impacts to the environment due to the solar on their website:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...eria.Table.pdf

There are still dozens of links on the BLM site pertaining to the solar. There is nothing left pertaining to the Bundy Ranch violations in any way. How do the militias feel about the cattle damaging private land and crops?

[oldno7]

What about Obama. Gotta be Obama's fault somehow.

T

Well technically......

Do you even cabinet, bro?

Which of the 3 branches of gov. is in charge of the blm?

o.k.--times up, I know you don't know so I'm a gunna hep ya...

blm--run by newly appointed Neil Kornze(former advisor to dingy harry)
dept of the interior--oversees the blm
Secretary of Interior--oversees DOI(Sally Jewell, former President/CEO of REI)obama appointee
Secretary of the interior is a cabinet position(this will blow you away tom...)serving under the President(bho)

this 3 branch stuff if crazy, huh....

But to your credit, you're probably right, zero has likely been out golfing and has no clue there is turmoil in one of his 57 states(with one to go)

Maybe he was down in gitmo working on waterboard techniques last week and missed this...

[oldno7]

..

[oldno7]

But gitmo can't even still exist--zero promised to close it as a priority.

And when he makes a promise, by golly he follows through....

[Scott P]

...

[oldno7]

I posted a link, quite aways back in regards to this. http://farm.ewg.org/
You can go State by State/County by County and see who in your area is taking farm subsidies.
I said it then and I'll say it again, this system is incredibly abused.
Theres a guy in my area, I know him personally, he has a very small farm.
Records show him collecting close to $200,000. I don't think his property would even be valued that high.
Lots of Bundy's, wonder if it is one in the same?
Certainly would be hypocrisy if it is.
Theres so many angles to this incident, certainly more to come that may bolster either side.

I could have remained neutral, until they brought in 200+ armed rangers, established 1st Amendment zones and violently
throw a 57 year old woman to the ground. That ended all neutrality for me. All this(supposedly) over cows?