Results 21 to 40 of 147
-
07-25-2012, 11:24 AM #21
-
07-25-2012 11:24 AM # ADS
-
07-25-2012, 11:52 AM #22
I have used the exact same rope as you and other similar diameter ropes. I didn't have the rappeller shock load per se but had them bounce mid rap after they had locked off. Again, the rope didn't budge. Maybe there is a flaw in the system at the beginning of the rap when the rope is slack??? New slick rope? My experience is that once the rope is weighted, it stays put. Hmmm. may have to go back to the double biner block.
Life is Good
-
07-25-2012, 11:59 AM #23
Wow, I'm really glad that he only sustained a fractured ankle. Also, thanks Andre for sharing so we all can learn.
I'm amazed that the rope slipped. If it normally doesn't slip, then I'm also amazed that it is releasable. I'm even MORE amazed that this is anyone's go-to rigging.
There is nothing wrong with the Canyon Fire rope. Yeah it is a little slick when new, but that is really obvious when you pull it out of the bag. The rigging method here is the REAL issue...
x3
Where is my soap box? Oh there it is, up we go.
Einstein once said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler". This quote comes to mind every time I check out the ACA website because many of the anchors and device setups seem as complex as possible. Seriously, when you log into the website you will see the homepage photo is a cluster of guys in a waterfall doing something more complicated than I have ever seen or will ever do.
I'm self taught, but take serious consideration to every method that I come across. If I were the only canyoneer in the universe, I would never rig something so excessively complex as the Jester. Not because of lack of ingenuity, but because intuitively the margin of error is increased significantly. Humans make errors, especially with complex routine problem solving. People get distracted, people get bored, people miss details. Add an exponent to the equation when tired, cold, hungry etc.
Why do groups rig contingencies on a routine basis? We've had a shirt stuck in a device once, we've had hair stuck in a device once. No biggie, didn't need to lower those gals, we worked it out, and we won't let it happen again.
I could ask the same about routine biner blocks. Uh yeah, people clip into the wrong side of those...
Toss and go, ATC, make sure your rope is even and on the ground, fireman belay. Haven't heard a lot of problems with that set up lately. If everyone abandons the Jester I bet we don't see any more Jester related accident reports.
It's sad to see people get hurt because they haven't considered that the simplest way is often the safest way.
Keep it simple. Have fun. Be safe.
Bob
-
07-25-2012, 01:24 PM #24
Gotcha gotcha, makes sense.... Kudos btw for the accident report and shot of what the rigging looked like before the accident. Very cool learning experience!
One more thought.... Maybe tossing the rope bag down would add just enough pull to keep the other rope tight? Maybe having the rope bag right there with zero downward force on the opposing (not used) line was a factor in the whole equation? I wish I had one of those and could maybe do some test on it. Shucks!Your safety is not my responsibility.
-
07-25-2012, 01:40 PM #25
I have 2 brand new totems I'll sell--$30ea.
I'll be in St. George tomorrow.
Selling cheap, because I just found out there dangerous.
-
07-25-2012, 01:58 PM #26
$30? You must not consider them too dangerous.
Life is Good
-
07-25-2012, 02:36 PM #27
I guess I'm confused about the rigging. Looks like a Kong Gi Gi plaquette type rigging (only not in autolock mode, but, like a sticht plate), so...what the heck keeps it from slipping? Just the mere friction of it passing around?
The rope is not locked off (tied off, blocked) at all?
Not getting all this complicated rigging stuff either. The device has a ton of options, which, makes it kinda cool, but, with all those options comes complicated rigging that can be easy to screw up.
I guess I prefer the figure eight for contingency...and those small Rock Exotica eights are sweet!
-
07-25-2012, 02:48 PM #28
-
07-25-2012, 04:27 PM #29
I don't why others do, but I do it now and then in dry canyons to keep in practice for when it is needed in a whitewater environment (where single strand can be useful and toss and go, hazardous). But...Munter Mule all the way for me, baby. No Jokers, Jesters, or such like.
-
Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesSlot Machine liked this post
-
07-25-2012, 04:39 PM #30
Just played with this a touch at home...rigged off whatever that device was that preceeded the Totem, and, an ATS. Same rigging. 8mm rope. I couldn't get it to NOT slip.
Are folks really relying on rope diameter and friction for this trick to work? Scary.
-
07-25-2012, 04:47 PM #31
I gotta go out and mess with the Jester some more. The last thing I want is a sketchy set up. This accident report certainly has me thinking.....
And in case I wasn't clear, the Jester is very easy to rig and to me is not complex at all.Life is Good
-
07-25-2012, 05:03 PM #32
what advantage does the jester have over the joker? both isolate the strands & both are releasable. what advantage as single strand over a normal contingency?
-
07-25-2012, 05:07 PM #33
For me the Jester is easier, faster and uses less stuff than the Joker. Two biners and a totem-- done.
Life is Good
-
07-25-2012, 06:16 PM #34
For me.... thread the rope through the quick-link and done.... nothing faster, nothing simplier.
Everything else is just inviting an accident.
-
Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesSlot Machine liked this post
-
07-25-2012, 06:57 PM #35
I'd have to agree with ice here. No sense in adding in more pieces then need be. The more stuff added the more chances of failure there are.
-
07-25-2012, 07:41 PM #36
I remember now why the top orange carabiner isn't through the rapide - it was too big to go through any other links of chain, and I was worried that the rope might get squeezed between the biner and the rapide and make it impossible to adjust the anchor if the rope and biner where on the same one.
I should have just added a second rapide, but it didn't occur to me.
-Andre
-
07-25-2012, 07:56 PM #37
I did a quick video from the back alley. I'm just putting a just little slack in the line (as if leaning forward to unclip a tether) and then kind of leaning back hard. I can easily pull a foot or more through the rigging. Not exactly a scientific test, but this is failing with only a couple hundred pounds of force.
I should note again this is an almost brand new rope and is very slick. I can't make it fail on my older canyon fires that have a few seasons of use, but then I haven't tried especially hard.
-Andre
-
Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesSlot Machine liked this post
-
07-25-2012, 08:07 PM #38
Andre
Did you consult the developer of the jester system with your problem?
If so, what was the developers consensus?
-
07-25-2012, 08:56 PM #39
-
07-25-2012, 09:44 PM #40
Similar Threads
-
Boss Hog Accident report 03/31/12
By rick t in forum CanyoneeringReplies: 26Last Post: 04-05-2012, 02:24 PM -
NSS Accident Report
By RedRoxx in forum Climbing, Caving & MountaineeringReplies: 2Last Post: 03-31-2010, 04:05 PM -
Zion Rappel Accident
By Iceaxe in forum CanyoneeringReplies: 90Last Post: 06-24-2009, 07:14 AM -
NSS accident report
By RedRoxx in forum Climbing, Caving & MountaineeringReplies: 3Last Post: 06-08-2007, 06:20 AM -
Failure to Communicate
By Sombeech in forum JokesReplies: 1Last Post: 07-17-2006, 05:39 PM