Despite protests, Boy Scouts reaffirm ban on gays

[Scott Card]

Hmmm. But is the BSA truly "private" when they receive many benefits from the Federal gov't?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164547,00.html

http://secular.org/news/government-f...s-unacceptable

http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/bsa.html

Until the Supreme Court says otherwise, Yes.

[hank moon]

Until the Supreme Court says otherwise, Yes.

If they ruled that your answer was really good, would it be?

[Sombeech]

If they ruled that your answer was really good, would it be?

[Deathcricket]

Until the Supreme Court says otherwise, Yes.

PWNED! /end thread

[Byron]

Opinions vary, for me it's just a matter of risk assessment.

[ratagonia]

Opinions vary, for me it's just a matter of risk assessment.

Based on an (paranoid, homophobic) "opinion" that homosexuals and pedophiles are the same thing, or closely related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, Byron. But those who study the issue consistently find that pedophiles self-describe as heterosexuals (if they have sex with adults, their sex is with women):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophi...and_pedophilia

...
A number of small-scale studies by Dr. Carole Jenny, Dr. A.W. Richard Sipe, and others have not found evidence that homosexuals are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals.^[60][61] Based on phallometric tests, Dr. Kurt Freund asserted that "androphiles" (male homosexuals with a preference for adults) are no more attracted to adolescent or younger boys than "gynephiles" (male heterosexuals with a preference for adults) are to adolescent or younger girls.^[62][63] According to him, only rarely does a sex offender against male children have a preference for adult males.^[64] Other researches available also suggest men who molest boys (specially prepubertal ones) tend to prefer adult women over men as sexual partners, as famously proven in the study of Paxson Helgesen.^{[65][66][67][68][69]}

Johns Hopkins University psychiatrist Dr. Frederick Berlin, who runs a treatment program for offenders, says it's flawed to assume that men who molest young boys are attracted to adult men; Berlin defines attraction to children as a separate orientation of its own.^[70]

Psychotherapist Dr. A.W. Richard Sipe, also argue that the sexual deprivation that occurs in the priesthood could lead one to turn to children and that boys are more accessible to priests and other male authority figures than girls.^[60] A study by Dr. A. Nicholas Groth found that nearly half of the child sex offenders in his small sample were exclusively attracted to children. The other half regressed to children after finding trouble in adult relationships. No one in his sample was primarily attracted to same-sex adults.^[71]

The empirical research show that sexual orientation does not affect the likelihood that people will abuse children.^[72][73][74] Many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.^[72]
...

<sup>If you really want to dig into it, there are 14 citations in that section of article.

Tom :moses;</sup>

[Byron]

This is what I mean by "risk assessment"...Google "Chile investigating 61 schools for reports of child sex abuse". I'd post a link to it, it's a fresh story, but I can't seem to get it to post up. They're called predators, Tom. And as for as I'm concerned...Man+boy+sex=gay, period.

[hank moon]

They're called predators, Tom. And as for as I'm concerned...Man+boy+sex=gay, period.

Oh yeah? Well as far as I'm concerned...

(sheep + squid + dog) x gold lam

[ratagonia]

This is what I mean by "risk assessment"...Google "Chile investigating 61 schools for reports of child sex abuse". I'd post a link to it, it's a fresh story, but I can't seem to get it to post up. They're called predators, Tom. And as for as I'm concerned...Man+boy+sex=gay, period.

Why stop there, Byron. As far as I'm concerned, reasonably-attractive guy with a hard-on = GAY! Period! No logic! None of that liberal SCIENCE stuff. I said it. I believe it. That settles it!

No reason to let the facts get in the way of a good fear. Or science or...

The same kind of logic shown in this movie:

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/invisible-war
http://invisiblewarmovie.com/

Under Don't Ask Don't Tell, if a private soldier or marine, male, was raped by a superior officer, male, and REPORTED, generally what happened was, the soldier, usually of a heterosexual orientation, was dismissed from the service for having gay sex; while the officer denies the charges, explains to his buddy the C.O. that it never happened, poor gay soldier making it up, probably too much stress, and the C.O. chooses not to prosecute. Good thing too because having rape happen on your command can set your career back big time.

Tom

[restrac2000]

This is what I mean by "risk assessment"...Google "Chile investigating 61 schools for reports of child sex abuse". I'd post a link to it, it's a fresh story, but I can't seem to get it to post up. They're called predators, Tom. And as for as I'm concerned...Man+boy+sex=gay, period.

Agree with the idea that pedophiles are predators....and I can kinda understand why people want to label "man+boy=gay" but its blatantly inaccurate for how the term is used in general. Both homosexual and heterosexual are about consenting sex between individuals of the "same" age. Its not that hard to understand. Outside of that framework you get into a different sexual area of taboo and hence the different names for it.

Its extremely insulting to link homosexuality with pedophilia.

Do we call man+underage girl=heterosexual? No, we call them pedophiles. Same with woman who prey on kids. Its also why we have a different name for people who force sex on others, wether of the same sex or not.

You might want to read up on the dynamics of sexual predators. Its not what most people think.

[restrac2000]

This is what I mean by "risk assessment"...Google "Chile investigating 61 schools for reports of child sex abuse". I'd post a link to it, it's a fresh story, but I can't seem to get it to post up.

Googled it. Guess what, they call it child molestation....not heterosexual/homosexual intercourse.

As far as risk assessment.....the best risk-based choice would be to fire all "straight" married white men and never allow them to teach or interact with kids again. Why? Because statically they are the most common culprits. You should also never allow anyone in your family that fits that category to interact with your own kids. (Intentional Gross Generalization)

Your idea of risk assessment is illogical. You don't exclude openly gay people because they are predators. That is subterfuge not supported by fact. You exclude and segregate homosexuals because of personal bigotry and prejudice. Its so much easier to disguise it in innuendo and fabricated depravity and your case looks better.

The adults pushing this agenda in the BSA have no logical reason to fear for their kids safety if homosexuals were allowed to participate. They do have reason to fear that their bigotry will be exposed for its major flaws though....and that seems to always be the root of segregation and exclusion. When we interact with others we learn the depth of our assumptions flaws. At least most of us do who are open-minded and tolerant.

[ratagonia]

A good new piece, same subject. I'll just quote a teaser as the article is rather long:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patric...b_1691171.html

How the Boy Scouts Banned Brotherhood and the Buddy System

Posted: 07/20/2012 9:03 pm

By mid-week at Boy Scout camp, it was usually pretty clear who was skipping showers. After all, it was close quarters in those dank tents. I remember spending a week every summer with hundreds of other prepubescent boys in North Carolina's great outdoors -- where home became a world of latrines, ticks and total lack of privacy -- and loving it. Every day brought a merit badge free-for-all that began with throwing on our starchy beige uniforms at Reveille and pledging allegiance before breakfast.

Scouts spent every waking (and sleeping) moment together during those annual campouts, and nowhere was this more evident than during afternoon swims at the lake. More than a rule or expectation, the Buddy System was our one real duty: stick together and look out for each other. God help you if you weren't clutching your buddy's wrist when the lifeguard blew the whistle.

The irony of the Buddy System wasn't lost on me this week, when a committee of the Boy Scouts of America affirmed its long-standing discriminatory policy. "We do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals," they said, adding that "same-sex attraction should be introduced and discussed outside" of the BSA.

This language sounds more direct and deliberately bigoted in a year when President Obama affirmed his support for same-sex couples who want to wed. While the leader of the free world says it's okay to love, the BSA insists there's no place for it. In my younger years, Scouting offered an incubator for becoming a young man. When Dad volunteered as an assistant Scoutmaster for my troop, he taught us how to light a grill, use a pocketknife properly, and clean a cast-iron skillet. I'm sure he never expected to shoot pool with his son at a gay bar in West Hollywood years later.

When I called my younger brother Scott this week in California, he had not heard the latest news in the BSA saga. No surprise there -- he packs his schedule to capacity. When he's not overseeing student affairs at a major university, he's tutoring students prepping for their SATs. Or running marathons. Or squeezing in a disciplined CrossFit workout and the occasional reality show audition. Scott once spent months traveling the country aboard a cruise ship, where he led an events team charged with entertaining tourists. He later earned his Master's in higher ed administration from Harvard -- they even named him class marshal. LinkedIn seems to have been created for Scott.

Yet in addition to my brother's laundry list of achievements, Scott also happens to be gay. A gay Eagle Scout, at that. And though he once trained as a camp counselor, today Scott wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a campground, much less a Scout meeting.

...

Tom

[DiscGo]

[QUOTE=hank moon;505082]Oh yeah? Well as far as I'm concerned...

(sheep + squid + dog) x gold lam