Essential equipment for Mystery Canyon

[Cirrus2000]

In My Not Exactly Humble Opinion?

Dang, so many canyons to try. So many right there in Zion to try get permits for...

My very humble opinion, after having done just a few technical/semi-technical canyons in/around Zion:

Orderville was not so exciting as I'd hoped.

Subway was pretty, but not really worth all the hiking - at least not for multiple repeat trips. Worth it the once, and I'll probably do it again sometime, but not an annual trip I'd like to make.

I think that for both of those, I was hoping for more technical... spice?

Keyhole, when you add up the approach and exit, is one of the most fun canyons I've ever seen, as far as bang for the buck goes.

Mystery was terrific, and is a must do.

Pine Creek is amazing also, and I look forward to doing it multiple times to see its many faces.

Engelstead, Birch, and Fat Man's were all a lot of fun, and I'd happily do them again - though a large part of the enjoyment probably came from the people I shared them with.

The rest? Well, I'll have to try 'em out and get back to you...

[canyoncaver]

Your loss. Of course, you shouldn't need to.

My loss? No, I think not. You guys can have all the backcountry window sleepovers you like. I don't really feel like I'm missing out on a whole lot there!

I agree that no one should have to wait in line for a permit at 3:00am. I am sorry that anybody has to do that. I just don't, because I don't have to. As I said before, I'm sure my attitude would be different if I lived out of state or across the Atlantic. It is easier for us locals, as there is always next weekend. Sarah, I really hope you get all the Zion permits you want, and I am sorry that our bureaucracy is making that difficult for you. I really hope you don't have to do any canyons sleep-deprived. The series of events that leads to that is truly ridiculous, and must be changed.

My point is that I have never had trouble getting a next-day permit for some canyon that was worthwhile. In the meantime, I usually go ahead and pick up a same-day for Pine Creek or something else fun. Both times I have been to Mystery, I picked up a permit at about 7:15am the day before. It always seems like most of the people ahead of me in line just want Subway or Narrows permits. As someone noted, the Kolob visitor center is great for next-day permits, especially for us northerners.

I love Mystery Canyon. But it is not the be-all, end-all. There are lots of other options that are just as fun. Just see what is available and grab one within your skill level. Birch, Misery, and Yankee Doodle are always available. Those are my "can't get a permit" canyons. Or, drive three hours east and there are more canyons than you could ever do in your life! In the Swell or the Roost, the only things going on at 3:00am are sleeping or partying. (Both acceptable) No permits, no lines, and all camping gear is welcome.

However, it is true Zion canyons have something special that other areas lack. Guess what, that is why everybody wants to go there all at the same time! That is why unfortunately there has to be some kind of regulation. If we are going to bitch about the current situation (and I feel that is warranted) we need to also offer alternatives. We may succeed in changing the status quo, but some other system will take its place. If you write a "the system sucks" letter, offer something else reasonable for them to chew on. Iceaxe's suggestion is a good example.

Happy letter writing and line standing...

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: Fat Man's Misery should be on everyone's fall back list.... it is an awesome canyon and doesn't require a permit. It is certianly one of the Zion classics on par with anything else the park has to offer.

[trackrunner]

Your loss. Of course, you shouldn't need to.

We have a new place for complaints about Zion National Park and the permit system:

Representative Jim Matheson
321 North Mall Dr., #E101B
St. George, UT 84790

with a copy to Superintendent, Zion NP, Springdale UT 84767

You will need to provide quite a bit more context, and be quite a bit more polite.

here's a way to start:

I am writing to you today because of a difficult situation in Zion National Park.

Etc. etc.

Tom

Tom is there a reason sending letters to Rep Matheson's St. George office over main office, which would be my local office.

[ratagonia]

Tom is there a reason sending letters to Rep Matheson's St. George office over main office, which would be my local office.

Whatever works for you. That happens to be MY local office, but either will do.

Tom

[trackrunner]

Whatever works for you. That happens to be MY local office, but either will do.

Tom

thanks for the reply I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a mass coordinated campaign to write to the St George office.

[ratagonia]

thanks for the reply I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a mass coordinated campaign to write to the St George office.

I think it would work best if we concentrate on Matheson, though i think whatever Matheson office will work just fine.

[Scopulus]

...but I guess we now need a five year study, thousands of dollars, and...

Thousands? News flash... In an effort to increase efficiency, the government no longer counts in numbers of anything less than a million.

[ratagonia]

In My Not Exactly Humble Opinion?

yeah, along those lines. I was thinking In My Never EVER Humble Opinion.

[sarahlizzy]

Posting this from the permit line, thanks to my iPad and a borrowed AT&T SIM. On the positive side it looks like I will get a Mystery permit for Saturday if I can stay awake for another six hours. On the negative side, if my friend and I had got here 5 minutes later than we did then we wouldn't have got the permit (and I am really glad my friend is here, because otherwise sitting here in the pitch darkness would be seriously freaking me out).

We got here at 10:45, by the way. The things we do for fun...

[sarahlizzy]

Losing. The will. To live.

Please send caffeine!

[Scott Card]

Losing. The will. To live.

Please send caffeine!

Therein lies one of the problems. The permit system and line makes you lose the will to canyoneer. It soooo detracts from the "Wilderness" experience. Sorry for your lousy experience. If I were there I would send you caffeine.

[asdf]

Please remind everyone in the permit line that there are no canyons outside of Zion that are worth checking out. Going anywhere besides Zion would be like spending your honeymoon at the Pillow Talk hotel in Wellington.

Thanks

[trackrunner]

If I were there I would send you caffeine.

no if you were there you'd get her in trouble with the park.

note inside joke read scott's trip report & rant on the subway

[Scott Card]

no if you were there you'd get her in trouble with the park.

note inside joke read scott's trip report & rant on the subway

Thank You, Thank You very much.....

And hey, it was the Ranger that wanted to get away from me and my venting when all was said and done. He had enough of me.

I really am nice. I promise.

[trackrunner]

I really am nice. I promise.

WUT, a nice lawery?

[hank moon]

it's the lawyer's fault

no, wait...it's our fault that we let "the lawyers" (i.e. Congress + president) do what they do. so there.

[stefan]

It's also why I've never been to Coyote Buttes.

try it in december. although the days are shorter, it's truly a wonderful time to be out there. the light's a bit different, and the air crisp. i spent 10-11 hours out there hiking once in december and didn't see a single soul all day.

[stefan]

Please send caffeine!

i'm sorry that's a camping amenity (breakfast) and would constitute a camping violation

[Cirrus2000]

i'm sorry that's a camping amenity (breakfast) and would constitute a camping violation

So... A coffee at 3 AM is a camping amenity, but is a coffee at 7 AM?

Now, if all went well yesterday, sarahlizzy should be in Mystery right now.

Looking forward to a trip report.