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Thread: Rappel Device
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11-16-2009, 01:05 PM #1
Rappel Device
Just for fun I took this picture of some of the different rappel devices that were at the last Moab Bogleyfest. Just from observation I'd say 90% of the participants were using an ATC (various models) or a Piranha. At least that is the observation associated with the groups I was with. Our Saturday group had 17 canyoneers ranging in skill from god-like to total noob.
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11-16-2009 01:05 PM # ADS
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11-16-2009, 04:53 PM #2
I was suprised how many atc's there were at the fest. I was going to get one of my atc's out so I could fit in. For entertainment, what device do each of you mighty canyoneers use and why?
I use a pirana. Seems to work for what I need. I like how easy it is to rig and the different friction settings.
Mark
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11-16-2009, 05:20 PM #3
I use ATC's because I like to use them for belaying as well. You can belay with other devices, but I like the ATC. Mine is labeled #1 in the photo.
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11-16-2009, 05:34 PM #4
ATC, i hate the twists from 8's and piranhas.
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11-16-2009, 05:36 PM #5
ATC guide and ATC XT. Simple, no twist
Mark,
I brought a Totem for you to play with on Sunday, but your kids got sick.
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11-16-2009, 05:37 PM #6
Pirana.
It is easy to adjust friction settings on the fly. I never mix my climbing and canyoneering gear.
I use a reverso for climbing, but feel the reverso wouldn't hold up as well canyoneering - especially if it was wet and sandy. Any real life experience anyone?
Bruce
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11-16-2009, 06:06 PM #7
I'm an ATC XP user. Tried a Pirana on my last trip, and it was cool, but I've not had a problem getting enough friction, even on single 8mm, with the ATC. I love the thing. I think it's the name.
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11-16-2009, 07:32 PM #8
Originally used a CMI Mini "8", then went to BD Super "8", then went to ATC, next was ATC XP. Ocassionally use an HB Mini Rack with Brake Bars and Hyper Bars. Have been using the Conterra Scarab for rescue lowers, but would really like to try the Scarab Ti for canyon descents? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, but really simple to load, and add friction on the fly. Check it out!
http://scarabrescue.com/
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11-16-2009, 08:53 PM #9
ATC-XP, I hate the twists from 8's and piranhas. #9 in the picture is mine.
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11-16-2009, 11:55 PM #10Originally Posted by Iceaxe
I've seen even experienced people screw up badly with 8's (girth hitch).
Nat
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11-17-2009, 07:52 AM #11Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
me too
ATC-XPIt's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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11-17-2009, 08:30 AM #12Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Mark
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11-17-2009, 08:43 AM #13
So is it sad that I think I can name all these devices
- 1. black diamond atc guide
2. petzl huit antibrulure
3. The Totem made by Rock Exotica
4. omega pacific SBGII
5. petzl pirana
6. petzl reverso
7. black diamond atc
8. a figure 8 (not so sure about the make going with Omega know it's not BD super 8)
9. black diamond atc-xp
Edit: for accuracy
- 1. black diamond atc guide
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11-17-2009, 08:52 AM #14Originally Posted by moab mark
You can lock of a couple ways with a tube style device (atc-xp for example). Leg rap is the easiest. Another is to pinch the rope to the device with your non brake hand. With your brake hand pass a bight through the biner on your belay device and tie off with a mule hitch. For safety it
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11-17-2009, 08:53 AM #15Originally Posted by moab mark
The main problem is when ATC users rappel AFTER the Figure 8 users on double strands. ATCs do not tolerate twists well. Rapping single strand reduces these problems significantly.
Me - I prefer a Pirana for two reasons:
1. It's FASTER!!! Faster to rig up, faster to unrig.
2. It's more powerful!!! Meaning, it provides many more options especially in rescue situations. Though rarely used, these are important options for ME should the merde hit the escaladorator.
When doing canyons with few and/or short rappels, and with an experienced posse, I use an ATC XP.
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11-17-2009, 09:14 AM #16Originally Posted by moab mark
IMHO: The twists are just anther pain in the ass thing to deal with that can cause problems when pulling you ropes. Twists can knot and hang when being pulled through rapids.
One benefit of an tube style devise (ATC) is that it actually straightens your ropes and removes twists and other potential problems.
This is from my own observations..... but.... If you look at the real hardcore canyoneers (guys who do a lot of difficult canyons) I bet you will find well over 75% are using an ATC of some type. And I bet if you look at the novice and recreational family canyoneers you will find about 75% are using an 8 of some type. I'm not saying using one device or the other makes you a pro, just something I've noticed, both have pro's and cons.
I've probably rappelled on everything under the sun at one time or other. I began using a 8, switched to a BD ATC for a couple of years, switched to a Trango B-52 for a couple of years, and finally switched to BD ATC-XP that I've been using since it was first introduced.
And a fun fact: The ATC-XP my wife is now using is actually one of the pre-production prototypes that was given to me by a friend at BD.... It was the first ATC-XP I ever saw and was before you could buy them.... err... something like that.
Anyhoo.... that's my 2 cents....
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11-17-2009, 10:18 AM #17Originally Posted by IceaxeLife is Good
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11-17-2009, 10:26 AM #18Originally Posted by Scott Card
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11-17-2009, 10:31 AM #19Originally Posted by IceaxeLife is Good
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11-20-2009, 05:58 PM #20
As Tom mentioned, the twists are (usually) only an issue when the 8 devices mix with ATC devices. Mark, you should have seen the snarls after the 200' rap in Granary. I've also found the twists to add time to some rope pulls, as you don't want those to snag on the pull. Thus, I usually use an ATC type device.
For wet canyons, I sometimes switch to 8's, as they are more tolerant for twists and such (and the rope is usually set on single line and the right distance; as well as the water is flipping it all around so the more tolerant device works well here.)
I highly recommend AGAINST a reverso or reversino. They get worn down quickly and can produce a sharp, knife-like edge. Have taken a dremmel tool to mine many times to reduce the knife edge.
I like the Jaws type devices (ATC XP, ATC Guide, Trango Jaws, etc), especially for beginners as you can pick the high friction side, or the low friction side - depending on circumstances. The jaws devices have more metal too, so they usually last longer. The ATC Guide also has other things you can do with it (auto locking belay, etc.)
YMMV,
A.J.
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