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Thread: Zion Rappel Accident
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06-23-2009, 11:31 AM #81
Re: newbie friction question
Originally Posted by bcubed
You got a cliff near where you live? While we could give you a formula for what setting to use at your weight and on X rope, it is better to understand the variety of settings and how each feels on a variety of ropes. WITH A BOTTOM BELAY from a friend.
Then, on a long rappel, the weight of the rope makes a big difference across the length of the rappel. At the top, the weight of the rope will slow you down, a LOT, and you will need to be set up 'light'. About halfway down, you will want to make an adjustment. Since there are not ledges on this particular rappel, you cannot easily use the Pirana adjustments to add more friction. I use the opposite-leg-loop biner method, but other method work too.
Which is a bit beyond the capabilities here...
Tom
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06-23-2009 11:31 AM # ADS
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06-23-2009, 12:50 PM #82
Tom is right going out and playing with your piranha is the best way. As far as your question. We just did Englestead on a brand new 300' imlay 9mm. I was the 6th one down. I weigh 190 lbs. Started at the top of the rappel with the rope under both hooks. With a pair of gloves on never had to change anything and went all the way to the bottom with the same setting.
If I would of needed to add a little friction. This may not be a proper technique due to being able to get my glove stuck in the device etc. But I take my left hand squeeze the rope running through the piranha then take the rope up over the small hook and then continue on. Have done it a several times seems to work pretty well.
My Son weighs around 150 lbs. He also went down under both hooks and had no problems.
These are just examples. You need to go out and practice for yourself.
My personal opinion on a rappel of this size. If the first guy downdoes not have his device dialed in. You better belay him down from the top. Once he is on the ground a monkey can go down.
I participate in an extreme adventure race in Moab every spring. They have you do a 300' rappel by Gemini Bridges. The organization has no clue what your rappeling experience is. I was talking to the head guy at the top last year about his concerns with the length. He stated if we watch you rig your device and have a fireman belay were not to concerned. They do make you wear gloves. Over a hundred go down every year. I personally know of about 15 people who that was the first rappel they ever did. They scream a little but they get to the bottom.
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06-23-2009, 02:18 PM #83Originally Posted by rcwild
Originally Posted by Original Question
Now if I had advanced medical skills I might make a different choice....
If I knew I was 40 pounds over weight and running a 1/2 mile would kill me I'd probably go down in the hole....
The benefit of a scenario like this is you can identify areas where improving your skills might be useful, or maybe it will help you diet so you can actually run for help.... yes, I would love to have the medical skills of a surgeon.... I would also like to fly a helicopter and build anther race car for baja.... but I have limited time, canyoneering is just one of several sports I participate in. I'm guessing very few of us on here have lives that revolve around canyoneering so we try to budget our time acquiring skills to the best of our abilities and scenarios help us....
Anyhoo.... just a few thoughts from an occasional canyoneer....
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06-23-2009, 02:55 PM #84Originally Posted by IceaxeRich Carlson, Instructor
YouTube Channel: CanyonsCrags
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06-23-2009, 03:31 PM #85Originally Posted by rcwild
The rest of you guys probably just got the t-shirt.
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06-23-2009, 03:42 PM #86Originally Posted by IceaxeLife is Good
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06-23-2009, 04:10 PM #87Originally Posted by Scott Card
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06-24-2009, 02:19 AM #88
Re: newbie friction question
Originally Posted by ratagonia
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06-24-2009, 05:59 AM #89
Re: newbie friction question
Originally Posted by zoeimogen
When wanting to tie off on your piranha I do it a little different then you described. I wrap it once around the hooks bottom to top and then put the slack end thru the carabiner and hook it on the hook on the other side. Its bomber.
You also brought up being right handed. If you are left handed just flip the piranha around on your carabiner this gives the lefty the same
choices.
Hope that all made sense.
Mark
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06-24-2009, 07:07 AM #90
Re: newbie friction question
Originally Posted by moab mark
When wanting to tie off on your piranha I do it a little different then you described. I wrap it once around the hooks bottom to top and then put the slack end thru the carabiner and hook it on the hook on the other side. Its bomber.
You also brought up being right handed. If you are left handed just flip the piranha around on your carabiner this gives the lefty the same choices.
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06-24-2009, 07:14 AM #91
Re: newbie friction question
Originally Posted by zoeimogen
Tom
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