Results 21 to 40 of 49
Thread: Rowdy OHV crowd alleged
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07-15-2007, 09:55 AM #21Originally Posted by scoutabout
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07-15-2007 09:55 AM # ADS
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07-15-2007, 12:04 PM #22Originally Posted by hank moon
I know Joe Baird personally (our daughters are friends). I have a pretty good feel for his political bent on this issue. I can assure you the Tribune writers "cherry pick" press releases from anti-OHV groups. You will also see they provide far more quote space to anti-OHV groups like SUWA. I can assure you that Heidi McIntosh's cell phone number is on the Tribune environmental writers contact list.
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07-16-2007, 10:30 AM #23
It's not an issue of fairness and access. The issue is respect to other public land users and containing a public nuisance. The fact is when my weekends get ruined by noise... the laws need to be be established. If you dont want the laws, prevail on your fellow ATV riders to show respect.... period.
"May the 4 winds blow you safely home" R. Hunter
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07-16-2007, 11:29 AM #24
If I want peace and solitude when I go hiking & backpacking, I just accept the fact that I'll have to hike where there aren't ATV trails. This concept seems to work for me.
And when I don't even want to see other hikers, I accept the idea of hiking a little longer up the trail, in an off peak season, or an unpopular trail. This concept seems to work for me also.
If I camp near a trailhead, I can't imagine blaming automobiles, ATVs, and small children for the noise. That would be stupid of me.
If hiking is about the serenity, beauty, tranquility, and peace, I'm not going to hike near ATV accessible lands. Sometimes you have to drop the "right or wrong" concept, and just skip the argument altogether by hiking somewhere smart. You'll get more accomplished.
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07-16-2007, 01:38 PM #25
I hear (and practice) all that you say. It is still sad to visit the places we camped when I was a kid that are now noisy, dusty unpleasant places to go. Where does it end? What areas will be compromised next? Stronger limits do need to be established.
"May the 4 winds blow you safely home" R. Hunter
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07-16-2007, 01:51 PM #26
There will always be A-holes that break the rules, or are impolite. But I know where I can go that won't be interrupted by ATVs and offroad vehicles. I think it's fair to say that we should expect noise & dust at the easy-to-get locations.
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07-16-2007, 03:16 PM #27
There are a-holes that disrespect others and break the rules while hiking, mountain biking, and driving on the highway.
Should we close every hiking trail, mountain biking trail, and highway? No, we should work to enforce the laws and educate the minority that is causing problems. Same for OHV use.
The anti-motorized groups have done a good job of convincing the public that if a few people disobey the laws, then everyone should be punished. We don't do that in other parts of society, why would we do that for OHV recreation?
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07-17-2007, 08:19 AM #28
Again, the actions are not punishment, they just seem like it because of the pardigm you are in. They are in actuality containment of a public nuisance.
Im not saying off road use should be banned all together; I am saying there is a right and wrong place for everything. Adding noise and dust to our most beautiful places is not the right place and it impacts everyone else.
Also, it is more than hikers that get impacted. Also are the people who want dispersed car camping but cant because of the constant 4 wheeler traffic. I ask who is limiting the experience and access to whom?.
Obviously I am talking about the small percentage that break the rules, but if we address problem areas, it's not impacting the respectful users in my opinion."May the 4 winds blow you safely home" R. Hunter
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07-17-2007, 08:34 AM #29
But the argument isn't about ATVs in the parking lot and around National Forest campgrounds.
It's out in the wilderness, where kids & car camping isn't likely to happen.
For instance, if somebody went to the sand dunes for a nice quiet afternoon, I think we know who the idiot would be.
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07-17-2007, 09:34 AM #30Originally Posted by Cachesoul
Originally Posted by Cachesoul
Originally Posted by Cachesoul
Originally Posted by Cachesoul
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07-17-2007, 01:47 PM #31
Yes, Nuisance is an apt. Definition;
"May the 4 winds blow you safely home" R. Hunter
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07-17-2007, 02:15 PM #32Originally Posted by Cachesoul
[quote=Cachesoul]Yes, Nuisance is an apt. Definition;
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07-17-2007, 02:36 PM #33
>>>I'll bet the noise doesn't bother the ATV riders.
Well now that demonstrates a limited perspective.
BTW - I do ride a 4 wheeler around my pasture and to plow snow; I dont feel it appropriate to turn the mountains into my personal roller coaster, compromising the experience of others.
Get this straight, noise and dust is counter productive to the purpose of getting away from it all! We remain at an impasse."May the 4 winds blow you safely home" R. Hunter
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07-17-2007, 02:55 PM #34Originally Posted by Cachesoul
Don't get me wrong, I totally see your point, though I'm not sure you've stated what solution (if any) you're advocating (presumably you want ATVs restricted to non-scenic areas?). I'm primarily a hiker, and I haven't had a single weekend ruined by "noise and dust." There's no shortage of places to go where you can get away from motorized recreation, but the fact is where there are roads, you're gonna have to share.
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07-17-2007, 06:26 PM #35
New group seeks tougher off-road penalties
By Lourdes Medrano
Arizona Daily Star
Calling off-road vehicles the top threat to public lands, a group of former government workers is pushing for tougher penalties for those who trample natural resources.
The newly-formed Rangers for Responsible Recreation comes armed with data from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management showing rampant abuse from off-road vehicles in Arizona and four other Western states.
"Off-road vehicles are causing major damage to watersheds and streambeds, and to plant life and wildlife," said former BLM director Jim Baca. He is part of the group seeking heftier fines, confiscation of off-road vehicles, and suspension of hunting and fishing licenses.
While acknowledging the problem, some off-road vehicle enthusiasts stressed that many of them promote safe riding to preserve access to trails.
"Usually, it's a small group spoiling it for everybody," said Brian Blangsted, who has been riding dirt bikes in the open desert of Southern Arizona for about three decades.
BLM statistics show that off-road vehicles are a serious law enforcement concern. The federal agency released the data recently to Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, which organized the current effort to shed light on off-road vehicle problems.
BLM numbers from 2004 to the first half of 2007 for Arizona, Nevada, California, New Mexico and Utah show more than 6,600 violations involving off-road vehicles in hit-and-run and reckless driving incidents. More than 2,300 violations stem from illegal use of closed trails and other areas that are off-limits to the public.
With slightly more than 600 violations, Arizona ranks fourth behind California, Utah and Nevada.
Ecologist Daniel Patterson, Southwest director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, deemed the data conservative.
The numbers reflect "a much higher problem" not just in BLM areas but also on other public lands, he noted.
Off-road vehicle enthusiasts routinely plow through restricted areas, ignoring trail markers and, in some cases, sparking wildfires in the drought-stricken West. They also challenge limited enforcement resources, Patterson said.
"We need harsher penalties that will deter reckless off-roading," including jail time for repeat offenders, Patterson said. His group's executive director, Jeff Ruch, said existing penalties
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07-17-2007, 06:27 PM #36
fines+confiscation. i agree with utahfire, but i'd put the fines upwards of $2000-8000 for illegal off-roading ... closer to $5000 to start out with.
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07-17-2007, 07:10 PM #37Originally Posted by Cachesoul
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07-17-2007, 07:18 PM #38Originally Posted by stefan
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07-17-2007, 07:32 PM #39Originally Posted by scoutabout
in utah with the increase in fines for speeding in school zones ... yeah, that got people to quit speeding in school zones real quick like ... course there's infinitely more enforcement in school zones within cities than in the open space of utah.
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07-17-2007, 07:38 PM #40
The problem is that the current fine structure sends the money towards something completely unrelated. Not enforcement, not maintenance, not education, something else. I can't remember what, but it is completely unrelated. I'd like to see fine money be spent on education, enforcement and trail maintenance along with them being MUCH higher.
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