Coronavirus

[rockgremlin]

[oldno7]

So I see that the border of Grand and San Juan counties is only about 10 miles south of Moab...so it's possible to camp Behind The Rocks and drive to all the biking trails. I also called the Needles Outpost...she said "we're open" and hardly anyone was there. I told her I'd likely show up within a week and stay for a week. Bike Moab, then hike tons of trials in the Needles...that'll burn up 10 days before I'm ready to move on.

So I load the truck today figuring on driving tomorrow and I get a text from the gal at the Outpost...as of today, San Juan County is closed. She has to shut down.

So that thoroughly BBQs that plan. Also, I see that your Governor threw down a state wide "remain in place" recommendation...not an order. Not yet, at least.

So I see that Bryce is still open, and they haven't shut down St. George yet... but that may be coming down the pike. I wonder if the Highway Patrol or the cops will chase people away who have out of state plates? I'd hate to drive all the way out there only to have to run a gauntlet every time I drive thru town to pick up some veggies. I'm curious if the police are lackadaisical about that kind of thing.

I really want to go...just to get out of this weird vibe town and enjoy the outdoors, full time like. Also, I'd like to see if theres a lot of other people out in the sticks...'cuz this whole thing is like a trial run to truly "bugging out". Get the vibe of how it would play out if it really mattered. Counties closing down and putting up roadblocks...that's probably likely. That would be keeping out the desert "survivalist" for sure. Better make sure your bug out spot is close to home, eh?

I'll give it another day or two to see what happens over there...if nothing heavy then I'll just venture out and hope I'm not heading back within a few days. The only thing that would make that happen is the authorities pulling people over and pointing them home.

Crazy times.

I watched the Governors speech, not at all what you've heard.

He said home is the safest spot but go ahead and walk around the block, go hiking, go hunting/fishing, etc just use the 6' rule when coming onto others.

Lots ,lots more but that is in contrast to what you're hearing.

He stated Summit county was the only one locked down in Utah.

[oldno7]

I think there was something else about Coloradoan's and pot needles, if you come don't lick our produce or sumthin'

[oldno7]

[accadacca]

Interesting stuff.

Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, Chief of Engineers and commanding general of the Army Corps of Engineers, talks with Rachel Maddow about how the Army Corps of Engineers works with other federal agencies and state and local authorities to modify existing facilities to provide much needed expansion of hospital capacity in the face of mounting COVID-19 cases.

[accadacca]

USNS Mercy (T-AH 19) pulling into the port of Los Angeles. Mercy deployed in support of the nation's COVID-19 response efforts and will serve as a referral hospital for non-COVID-19.



Little more about the largest hospital ship in the world.

[Iceaxe]

F**k the cruise lines... if their ships were not US Flagged in 2019 they deserve zero US bailout money...

Climb-Utah.com

[blueeyes]

Have you read the report issued by NY?

I have it if you'd like.

It is a 272 page document titled "Ventilator Allocation Guidelines"


And yep--logistics are off the charts.

Lots of differing forms of triage for ventilators spelled out, not pleasant decisions but pandemic decisions.

For those who don't know(I can't imagine anyone) if you bitch slap Trump in public, he will get even, it's who he is.

He doesn't turn the other cheek, so if ones plan is an attempt to chastise/humiliate Trump, you better have your ducks in a row.

New York has always had a plan to deal with lack of ventilators, a VERY well detailed, medical and yes legal plan.

The writers of the "plan" always knew there would be mass death and supplies and staff would be inadequate, they detailed this scenario they are in right now back in 2015.

To claim Trump didn't do his homework would be reciting msn stories that have no idea if true but intend to defame Trump at every level.(how do they, or you know what he has or hasn't researched?)

Can they or you site some sorta proof that Trump is not accurately informed, as you claim?

He is the most powerful man in the world, he has access to hundreds if not thousands of staff who all run computers better than most.

Their research ability is unlimited.


Or is it just that his style irritates you and you/they detest him?

From a very biased opinion, I'd say he and his team are doing a phenomenal job, I guest history and the current media will judge.

No Kurt I have not read the entire 272 page report word for word. But yes I have read parts of it and skimmed other portions.

The 15,000 ventilators he claims NY had an opportunity to buy comes from an article written by Betsy Mccaughey (https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-did...-for-pandemic/) she extrapolates the number from that ventilator report from page 30. On this page it compares a moderate outbreak to a severe outbreak and the need for ventilators in each scenarios. Where she came up with the cost of ventilators I don’t know she doesn’t site her source for that quote. And no where in the allocation document does it talk about the cost of ventilators.

The report wasn’t just created in 2015, as her article misleads readers to believe, it was first drafted in 2007 and updated in 2015 to include pediatric and neonatal protocols and update adult protocols. It is also used by other states or at least they developed their plans based off NY’s.

This is where Trump took his information from, and her article is flawed.

The ventilator report states:

Pg 37

E. Stockpiling Ventilators
New York State pandemic planning includes careful consideration of the potential shortage of ventilators, based on the estimates discussed above. There is a federal government stockpile of ventilators, but its use is limited for any one locality; there are not enough ventilators to be distributed to meet demand if many regions need them at once. New York State has stockpiled 1,750 ventilators (57) to help reduce ventilator need in the face of the moderate scenario; (58) however, there are no current plans to buy enough ventilators for the most severe model. The State’s current approach to stockpiling a limited number of ventilators balances the need to prepare for a potential pandemic against the need to maintain adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses. Furthermore, severe staffing shortages are anticipated, and purchasing additional ventilators beyond a threshold will not save additional lives, because there will not be a sufficient number of trained staff to operate them. In the event of an overwhelming burden on the health care system, New York will not have sufficient ventilators to meet critical care needs despite its emergency stockpile. If the most severe forecast becomes a reality, New York State and the rest of the country will need to allocate ventilators and other scarce resources.

On page 29 in the footnotes it says

Last, the scaling factor (approximately 8.22) was derived by comparing death rates between the severe and moderate pandemics. This approach “works backward” from deaths, which given modern medicine might not be as high as observed in 1918. Unfortunately, the lack of data from the 1918 pandemic prevents an approach to “work forward” from infection rates, illness severity, and duration of illness to the number of ventilators that might be needed simultaneously in a severe pandemic. Given these caveats, it is likely not possible to accurately calculate the impact of a severe pandemic, including ventilator need, given the tools provided. Given these disclaimers, it is likely that the approach used overestimates the number of ventilators that would be needed during a severe pandemic.

No where in the report does it recommend NY purchase 15,000 ventilators. A search of the document for recommend pulls up 88 times that word is used and not one time does it say NY should buy ventilators. The document speaks to how to use available ventilators in the event that choices have to be made and who that decision falls on.

Can you Kurt or someone site where NY was told to buy 15,000 ventilators and the exact cost other than Ms. Mccaughey article?

No I do not like his style. I have never liked Trump. I don’t need the media to help me form my opinion of him it was formed before he ever ran for President. I am not Republican, not Democrat, Not Liberal I guess that makes me Independent… but I don’t feel like I belong there either.

He doesn’t research half the shit that comes out of his mouth.

In my very biased opinion he is doing a mediocre job. I don’t 100% disapprove of things he is doing concerning this pandemic but I think he has been slow to take this virus seriously but then so were a lot of us. I can’t stand all the asinine blaming about whose fault this is… it is a virus that mutated. Shut the hell up and work with the dam situation. Playing the blame game doesn’t serve a purpose.

Not necessarily.

My boss came at me about a week ago with a panicked expression on his face, wringing his hands, and condemning Trump because of the skewed statistics that he'd read on the internets. He even quoted me this famous statistic:



When crap like this goes viral, you get the mass hysteria that we're currently seeing today. Inaccurate reports about the virus are causing normally happy people (and politicians) to do and say utter nonsense.

In that light… yes it does matter.

Trump was only responding to the question asked of him.

Cuomo and Trump are getting along a lot better than certain "news" sources would have us believe. Like Trump says, it's not the Fed's responsibility to make sure each state's inventory of these items are stocked up. New York did in fact downplay the inventory levels suggested a few years ago and is now trying to blame Trump. The 50 Governors were all working together on the phone call, but once they are alone and hounded by the press, they'll come up with something.

Trump would not have mentioned New York's low ventilator inventory if Cuomo did not try to blame it on him. Most of Trump's statements are responses to the media's questions.

This is aimed towards nobody, but keep these points in mind:

It's getting blatantly obvious that certain people want this recovery to look bad on Trump.

*blaming Trump for the idiot that ingested the fish tank cleaner? Come on people, hydroxychloroquine has been FDA approved for DECADES. I haven't yet heard Trump advise anybody to go out and buy it either. A Dr would prescribe it. Some states want to make hydroxychloroquine unavailable! https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/us/ma...rnd/index.html

*Justifying NOT broadcasting the LIVE press conferences and updates from Trump, on the biggest story in the world right now?https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-an...virus-pressers Thank goodness they've been getting the Emergency Broadcast System tested out and going, just watch, media will try to block him so hard that we WILL be receiving the updates this way.

*Calling him racist for closing travel from China so soon, then trying to find ways to accuse him of acting so slowly. They are also calling him racist for saying "Chinese Virus" when there are countless screenshots of the accusers saying the same damned thing, until their little review groups decided we didn't want to hurt any feelbads.

*Compare the fast and organized reaction/handling, and even the daily press conferences for COVID compared to H1N1. Have we ever had a president that speaks with the hostile press, accepting questions daily? Even throughout his presidency he's speaking with the press almost on a daily occurrence. Not even Obama did this when the press had 'Bama Boners constantly.

In 2 weeks we are going to look back at all of the summaries and we will laugh at how blatantly obvious it was that a lot of people wanted this to be so much worse, to hurt Trump's economy. The virus is real, no doubt. But Trump is all over this and it's pissing people off. Enjoy the show, and smile as the economy comes back better than it ever was.

I think the AZ man should be nominated for a Darwin award.

Not broadcasting his LIVE press conferences is censorship and I personally have no respect for any outlet that would promote that… even if listening to him talk about drives me up the wall because he is a horrible orator. His favorite words are “thing” and “tremendous”. Every item is a “thing” … we do great things, it is a big thing… it is a tremendous thing…

Closing travel from China raised my eyebrow… but ultimately that is a commendable move.

Anyone who wants this to be worse just to prove that Trump’s economy is bad is selfish.

[blueeyes]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lmost-anywhere

Abbott is probably one of my least favorite companies after being a Point of Care coordinator for EIRMC in Idaho for 2 years. They are shady in my opinion. But they talked about this test in the briefing tonight. I believe it was Pence that said your doctor could perform this test right in the doctors office. This is a perfect example of not researching accurately. In order for a doctors office to run this type of test they have to have the right CLIA certification.

CLIA requires that any facility examining human specimens for diagnosis, prevention, treatment of a disease or for assessment of health must register with the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) and obtain CLIA certification.

Many doctors office choose not to maintain these certifications because you have to maintain records on validating the test, quality control and continued maintenance and education of personal to name a few things to keep that certification. The way Pence stated it made it sound like every doctors office could just buy this and run the test.

However for places that currently run Flu's, Streps, and RSV tests on this platform they will be able to get the new test and get it going rather quickly. I am curious about it sensitivity and specificity of the test. This type of test has a higher false negative then Real-time PCR tests.

[blueeyes]

Also I sincerely doubt that is a 5 minute test. I think the other 3 take a total of 20 minutes to run from start to finish. You still have to take the swab and put it in an extraction fluid before you run the test.

[Iceaxe]

When the food runs out we'll still have each other....

ROFLMAO

Climb-Utah.com

[BasinCruiser]

[BasinCruiser]

[oldno7]

From report


The state did not plan to increase its stockpile because it anticipated that in the event of a severe crisis, there would be shortage of trained staff to operate them and demand would outweigh any emergency stockpile. The report said the state had to balance the likely ventilator shortage with the need for adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses.

I haven't read whatever article you refer to, I did read an abundance of NY's Ventilator Allocation guidelines.

It clearly states the above quote.

NY knew they couldn't cover a pandemic in equipment or manpower.

So why does cuomo cry on tv that Donald Trump isn't doing his part?

Like I stated--history will show the Trump response to this crisis was very effective and his leadership reduced overall deaths.

The media will attack him 180* from whatever he does--constantly.

And yet he does the right thing and his focus is on rebuilding our Country "again".

I can't prove what information he based his decisions on and neither can anyone else.

To call him un informed is disingenuous at best and democrat hate speech at worst and it was repeated with no evidence, daily on msm and those who fail to think, repeat those untruths.

I didn't post what he claimed to base his information on, theres likely only one person who will ever know that.

I haven't watched network news for years and won't go back.

If I need information, I research it on my own and extrapolate an opinion based on that research.

I don't need the tv telling me what I think.

[oldno7]

From report


The state did not plan to increase its stockpile because it anticipated that in the event of a severe crisis, there would be shortage of trained staff to operate them and demand would outweigh any emergency stockpile. The report said the state had to balance the likely ventilator shortage with the need for adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses.

It was idiotic of Trump to even bring that up and then he did it out if context of the report because that man does very little to inform himself accurately.






Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Maybe it's out of context to believe he does very little to inform himself.

The man has character flaws from a Westerners(me) position, he's a New Yorker.

But I can't seem to find an actual policy he has had his hand in that I disagree with.

I'd love to hear your top 5 policy failures by Trump list---seriously.

[oldno7]

[BasinCruiser]

[oldno7]

From report


The state did not plan to increase its stockpile because it anticipated that in the event of a severe crisis, there would be shortage of trained staff to operate them and demand would outweigh any emergency stockpile. The report said the state had to balance the likely ventilator shortage with the need for adequate funding for current and ongoing health care expenses.

No we are not ready to be back to work by Easter.

My gut says it took China 2 1/2 months to tamp the virus down by making everyone in the Hubei Province stay home.But Americans are impatient and won't stand to shelter in place for that long and the biggest share of them are not prepared to financially wait this out.

Obviously South Korea took the first SARS outbreak to heart and prepared. The US has been caught with their pants down. We need the correct testing to quarantine only those that are positive and anyone they have come in contact with.

There is no win win in this situation. There is no win lose...

I hope we learn from this and prepare for the next time. That is my gut feeling.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

And yet the US is ranked #1 on the GHX index for being prepared with a score of 83.5

South Korea is 9th with a score of 70.2

Twice you stated it was your gut feeling.

Heres real world statistics.

You can click on any country for the ranking

It would appear the Us wasn't caught with it's pants down

But I'm probably reading it wrong--

https://www.ghsindex.org/#l-section--map

[oldno7]

Rank	Country	Index Score	Region	Population	Income
1	United States	83.5	Northern America	100m+	High income
2	United Kingdom	77.9	Europe	50-100m	High income
3	Netherlands	75.6	Europe	10-50m	High income
4	Australia	75.5	Oceania	10-50m	High income
5	Canada	75.3	Northern America	10-50m	High income
6	Thailand	73.2	Southeastern Asia	50-100m	Upper middle income
7	Sweden	72.1	Europe	1-10m	High income
8	Denmark	70.4	Europe	1-10m	High income
9	South Korea	70.2	Eastern Asia	50-100m	High income
10	Finland	68.7	Europe	1-10m	High income
11	France	68.2	Europe	50-100m	High income
12	Slovenia	67.2	Europe	1-10m	High income
13	Switzerland	67.0	Europe	1-10m	High income
14	Germany	66.0	Europe	50-100m	High income
15	Spain	65.9	Europe	10-50m	High income
16	Norway	64.6	Europe	1-10m	High income
17	Latvia	62.9	Europe	1-10m	High income
18	Malaysia	62.2	Southeastern Asia	10-50m	Upper middle income
19	Belgium	61.0	Europe	10-50m	High income
20	Portugal	60.3	Europe	10-50m	High income

[accadacca]