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Thread: Medical Marijuana in Utah

  1. #21
    Rock, you forget that I represent a CBD company. My daughter has chronic pain. I am a fan of CBD, not THC. Oh, trust me. I have been all over this issue. I stated that in another thread.
    Life is Good

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    That's because you don't drink alcohol, and aren't a cancer patient on chemo. If you were either of those you might have a different opinion.
    Or had a gay child.

    Sombeech, I am too lazy to search, but you often bring up LDS complaints as a complete non sequitur. One example off the top of my head was last week when I called out the fake craigslist ad looking for Obama supporters. It's not a big deal, you just happen to be real sensitive, lots of people are.

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    LOL.... the Church issues opinions and statements. People choose to follow or not.

    This is true.... but... we both know a large number of people that take any opinion or statement the LDS church gives as meaning it came directly from God, to the prophet, to them....

    The other side of that is the LDS church also teaches free agency.... but for better or worse a large number of people, both in and out of the church, fail to think for themselves and would rather be told what to think.

    Anyhoo... bottom line.... the LDS church has a massive influence in Utah and on Utah politics. Anyone that denies that fact is fooling themselves.

    YMMV

  5. #24
    I agree the church has a large political influence in this state when it issues statements. The word "controlling" doesn't sit well with me. That word, frankly goes against everything I know and love about the Church, of which I am a member.
    Life is Good

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  7. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post

    Sombeech, I am too lazy to search, but you often bring up LDS complaints as a complete non sequitur.
    It sounds like you can't counter the points I make so you just mention that I make them often.

    I'm ok with that, but I'd rather hear your opposing point of view.

  8. #26
    Here is the road map to how Prop 2 will be torpedoed...

    Here’s how and why the Legislature could change Proposition 2 — even if it passes
    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46422829&nid=968

    Climb-Utah.com

  9. #27
    Yes, the church obviously has a major part to play in politics in Utah. I also agree with Scott that I hate the idea of them controlling what I do and think. If I'm honest, it bothered me to receive an email from them telling me how I should vote. That was a line that I didn't think they'd cross, but they did. It felt weird to me.

  10. #28
    To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


    What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

    So? Why is that so bad?

    You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

    Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?
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  12. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


    What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

    So? Why is that so bad?

    You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

    Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?
    ^^^^

    My 98 year old devout Mormon Grandmother believes in legalization cause she knows it's everywhere and controlling, dispensing and advising people on variety is far more safe and we, as a State, reap the financial benefit. She passed about 8 years ago and couldn't see so she'd just listen to talk radio and was very informed on issues. She was most adamant about legalization feeling it would solve a lot of the ripple effect social problems of MJ being illegal.

  13. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    It sounds like you can't counter the points I make so you just mention that I make them often.

    I'm ok with that, but I'd rather hear your opposing point of view.
    What opposing point of view? That the LDS church is controlling? Maybe you tell me how an institution that tells its members the following couldn't be considered controlling: how to dress, what to eat and drink, how many and where they can get piercings and tattoos, how to vote, what gender you can bang, whether kids can masturbate, have the byu honor code, what you can do on Sunday, etc. etc. etc.

    I'm probably coming off as a bit of a dick, though I am not trying to. I don't personally believe in the theology and the culture and rules are certainly not for me, but if it's for others, great. Do what makes you happy. But I don't see how anyone could say the LDS church(and a whole hell of a lot of other religions) isn't controlling.

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  15. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    To all those who voted against Prop 2 -- please read the following question with an open mind - I'm sincerely not trying to be obnoxious or snarky:


    What is so "bad" about recreational MJ? Most folks who voted to axe Prop 2 claimed that "it would open the door to recreational use."

    So? Why is that so bad?

    You folks do know that MJ is everywhere right now, right? I'll bet there are at least a half dozen folks who live within a mile radius of your house who possess (or have possessed) MJ and have probably even lit up once or twice recently. IT IS EVERYWHERE.

    Prop 2 isn't proposing to import MJ into the State of Utah once it has passed -- MJ is already here in massive quantities. People are just so deep in denial they refuse to acknowledge that. So, since it's already here, and it's so ubiquitous, why not profit from it? Because the only folks who profit from it when it's illegal are drug dealers and Mexican cartels. Is that what you'd prefer? To pad the pockets of the drug cartels?

    X2.
    Also, I think many people would be truly shocked to learn how many educated, highly successful people that you know, occasionally partake. I prefer a few beers personally and am not a fan of playing legal roulette with pot being illegal, but off the top of my head I personally know of business owners, engineers, lawyers, architects, financial planners, r/e agents and a Dr among others that smoke. I do know some real losers that smoke too, but that goes with pretty much everything.

  16. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by devo_stevo View Post
    Yes, the church obviously has a major part to play in politics in Utah. I also agree with Scott that I hate the idea of them controlling what I do and think. If I'm honest, it bothered me to receive an email from them telling me how I should vote. That was a line that I didn't think they'd cross, but they did. It felt weird to me.
    That's odd, I never received an email. Who did it come from? What did it say?

  17. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post
    lol. You really are interested in how people view the Mormons. Is there a thread on here where you haven't brought up the poor picked on Mormons?
    What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.

  18. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by qedcook View Post
    What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.
    Nah, he must be getting irritated that there's somebody sticking up for the Mormons. It would piss me off too if I hated them.

  19. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    That's odd, I never received an email. Who did it come from? What did it say?
    It came from the church. Written by the president of the Utah area. It basically said that they're cool with the idea of medical marijuana, but not the bill as proposed. I'm cool with that statement. What I didn't really like was the line where they said in bold type "As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2."

    Here's the email. I received it on 8-23.

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    In November, Proposition 2, an initiative which would legalize the sale and use of marijuana, will appear on the ballot. Its proponents assert that it will make medical marijuana available to those suffering with debilitating pain and other infirmities. However, in truth it goes much further, creating a serious threat to health and public safety, especially for our youth and young adults, by making marijuana generally available with few controls.

    The Church joins a coalition of medical experts, public officials, and community stakeholders in calling for a safe and compassionate approach to providing medical marijuana to those in need. The Church does not object to the medicinal use of marijuana, if doctor prescribed, in dosage form, through a licensed pharmacy.

    As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2, and join us in a call to state elected officials to promptly work with medical experts, patients, and community leaders to find a solution that will work for all Utahns, without the harmful effects that will come to pass if Proposition 2 becomes law.

    For more information on Proposition 2 please refer to this legal analysis prepared for the Church by Kirton McConkie.



    Elder Craig C. Christensen
    President, Utah Area


    Statement on Proposition 2

    Medical Marijuana Initiative
    Medical marijuana is an issue that has generated strong emotions and opinions among proponents and opponents alike. On one hand, initiatives to legalize marijuana in other states have led to increased drug use among youth, higher risk of impaired driving, and an increase in hospital emergency room visits, among other significant public health and safety concerns. On the other hand, patients suffering from debilitating pain and other medical conditions have struggled as traditional treatment strategies have failed to provide relief. The marijuana initiative appearing as Proposition 2 on the ballot this November does not strike the appropriate balance in ensuring safe and reasonable access for patients while also protecting youth and preventing other societal harms.

    We are firmly opposed to Proposition 2. However, we do not object to marijuana derivatives being used in medicinal form—so long as appropriate controls and safeguards are in place to ensure vulnerable populations are protected and access is limited to truly medicinal purposes. Moreover, though continued research into the risks and benefits of medical marijuana use remains paramount, current scientific evidence suggests marijuana contains components that may be of benefit to some patients.

    We urge the voters of Utah to vote no on Proposition 2. We also urge lawmakers, patients, and community stakeholders to work together to find a solution that works for all Utahns. The hallmarks of Utah’s unique policy accomplishments in the past have been civility, compassion, and a spirit of compromise, and we are confident an approach guided by these principles will yield similarly effective policies.

    Sincerely,

    Utah Medical Association
    Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    Utah Episcopal Diocese
    Utah Hospital Association
    Utah PTA
    Fraternal Order of Police
    Family Policy Resource
    Utah Narcotics Officers Association
    Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake
    Latinos in Action
    Utah Sheriff's Association
    Salt Lake City Police Association
    Sutherland Institute
    Utah Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
    Utah Eagle Forum
    Utah Society of Anesthesiologists
    Family First Foundation
    Meridian Magazine
    Newquist Group
    Citizens for Strong Families
    American College of Emergency Physicians, Utah Chapter

    Wayne Niederhauser—Utah Senate President
    Greg Hughes—Speaker of the Utah House
    Scott Anderson—President and CEO, Zions Bank
    Gail Miller—Owner & Chair of the LHM Group of Companies
    Karen Huntsman
    Mike Leavitt—Former Governor, Secretary of HHS
    David Huntsman, President, Huntsman Foundation
    Mitt Romney—Former U.S. Presidential Candidate
    Jim Jardine—Lawyer, Education Leader
    Kem Gardner—Chairman, Gardner Company
    Dave Mallinak, Pastor, Berean Baptism Church, Ogden
    Steve Starks—President, Utah Jazz, and LHM Sports & Entertainment
    Spencer P. Eccles—Former Exec. Dir. Governor's Office of Economic Development
    Nathan Frodsham—Patient Advocate
    Aimee Winder Newton—Chair Salt Lake County Council
    Kim R. Wilson—Attorney
    Enedina Stanger—Patient Advocate
    Walt Plumb—Developer
    Derek Miller—President and CEO, Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce
    Todd Moon—Patient Advocate
    Rev. Gregory Johnson, President of Standing Together
    Carlton Christensen—Former Salt Lake City Council Member
    Karen Hale—Former Utah State Senator
    Mike Kennedy—MD
    Ed Kennedy—President, Truth about Prop. 2
    Jennifer Brown, DDS—Dentist

    *"There are a significant number of Utah elected officials and others running for office this year, who have signed the statement. We have chosen not to include their names here."

  20. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by devo_stevo View Post
    It came from the church. Written by the president of the Utah area. It basically said that they're cool with the idea of medical marijuana, but not the bill as proposed. I'm cool with that statement. What I didn't really like was the line where they said in bold type "As a member of the coalition, we urge voters of Utah to vote NO on Proposition 2."
    I see. I must not be on that email list lol.

    Yeah that seems like a strong suggestion, but in the end there will be no retaliation against the members that did vote for Prop 2. They can urge us to vote a certain way just like they can urge to go to church on Sundays.

    But we can see that in the end, the choice is up to us and we would receive zero punishment for voting a certain way. No shunning, no shaming, no special invitation to the bishops office, no banning, no whatever. We truly are allowed to make our own decisions, and they are truly allowed to urge us to vote a certain way without consequences.

    It might look like overreaching, but I'm getting suggestions and advice on something every single Sunday, so it is what it is.

    And yet, there's still not one person that knows which way I voted ;)

  21. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post
    What opposing point of view? That the LDS church is controlling? Maybe you tell me how an institution that tells its members the following couldn't be considered controlling: how to dress, what to eat and drink, how many and where they can get piercings and tattoos, how to vote, what gender you can bang, whether kids can masturbate, have the byu honor code, what you can do on Sunday, etc. etc. etc.

    I'm probably coming off as a bit of a dick, though I am not trying to. I don't personally believe in the theology and the culture and rules are certainly not for me, but if it's for others, great. Do what makes you happy. But I don't see how anyone could say the LDS church(and a whole hell of a lot of other religions) isn't controlling.
    Why does this bother you so much? Every organization has "rules". My profession has rules and requirements to get in, a dress code, a conduct/ethics code, and a continuing behavior and education code. To be a lawyer I had to go to college, law school and pass the bar. I have to wear a suit and tie in court or risk contempt. If I commit certain crimes I lose my license. I have to attend so many hours of continuing legal education. So tell me again why an organizations rules are so offensive to you if you don't believe in the theology and culture and rules? You voluntarily join organizations. You voluntarily stay with organizations. You can leave the organization anytime you wish. If you get kicked out due to rules, well, yup, they have rules.

    So what if the church renders an opinion on an issue before the voters. Freedom of thought and speech are the fundamental rights that make this country great and from which every other right flows. All of this hate and animosity towards others, their opinions, and their organization is what is making America less great.
    Life is Good

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  23. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by qedcook View Post
    What a silly critique!!! Sombeech expresses a valid opinion in what he thinks is true, and he gets mocked for it?? uintafly must be a liberal. Name calling is the argument of the child/liberal. But this is the internet. There are trolls and liberal "logic" everywhere you look. If you're going to be a part of the psuedo-public arena, you've got to be able to handle criticism. I'm just surprised how silly this particular criticism is.
    So true, the high minded conservatives are above such low brow humor as name calling and mocking. Only the snowflake libtards in their safespaces while collecting participation trophies and living off welfare in their moms basement would stoop so low as to generalize and mock! Conservatives have risen above it all, led my Mr. respectful himself, Donald J. Trump! Though I am confused, your post seems to have some name calling in it, so does that make you a liberal?

  24. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    I see. I must not be on that email list lol.

    Yeah that seems like a strong suggestion, but in the end there will be no retaliation against the members that did vote for Prop 2. They can urge us to vote a certain way just like they can urge to go to church on Sundays.

    But we can see that in the end, the choice is up to us and we would receive zero punishment for voting a certain way. No shunning, no shaming, no special invitation to the bishops office, no banning, no whatever. We truly are allowed to make our own decisions, and they are truly allowed to urge us to vote a certain way without consequences.

    It might look like overreaching, but I'm getting suggestions and advice on something every single Sunday, so it is what it is.

    And yet, there's still not one person that knows which way I voted ;)
    Very true. I haven't had the bishop ask me which way I voted and I don't expect that to happen either. I just thought it was strange that they actually came out and suggested that we vote in a certain direction. Typically, it's more of a suggestion to study out the subject and vote according to your conscience as to what you think is right. That's all.

  25. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    Why does this bother you so much? Every organization has "rules". My profession has rules and requirements to get in, a dress code, a conduct/ethics code, and a continuing behavior and education code. To be a lawyer I had to go to college, law school and pass the bar. I have to wear a suit and tie in court or risk contempt. If I commit certain crimes I lose my license. I have to attend so many hours of continuing legal education. So tell me again why an organizations rules are so offensive to you if you don't believe in the theology and culture and rules? You voluntarily join organizations. You voluntarily stay with organizations. You can leave the organization anytime you wish. If you get kicked out due to rules, well, yup, they have rules.

    So what if the church renders an opinion on an issue before the voters. Freedom of thought and speech are the fundamental rights that make this country great and from which every other right flows. All of this hate and animosity towards others, their opinions, and their organization is what is making America less great.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    Nah, he must be getting irritated that there's somebody sticking up for the Mormons. It would piss me off too if I hated them.
    Please for the love of God point out where I have ever said I hate Mormons??? Or even where I said their rules were "offensive" to me? It sure would be a surprise to many of my close friends and family that I secretly hate them all. Just pointing out that the LDS church is controlling (an opinion that is shared by a lot of members and non members alike btw) does not constitute me hating the Mormons. Since when does stating what many believe is a valid criticism of a group constitute "hate and animosity". It's absurd.

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