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Thread: LDS Church Meeting Times
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10-09-2018, 11:18 AM #41
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10-09-2018 11:18 AM # ADS
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10-09-2018, 11:18 AM #42
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10-09-2018, 11:37 AM #43
I'd say you're painting with a awful big brush to say that stuff never happens. Probably a lot less often now, but when I was growing up I had several Mormon friends who weren't allowed to hang out with non Mormon's. I grew up of the faith so I was exempted from the ban. What I find in my neighborhood now though is the opposite. Probably once a month or so I'll be chatting with a neighbor and at some point they will throw in the "Hey, we'd love to see you at church next Sunday" comment. Doesn't bother me but it is pretty funny. I am guessing that since my name in on the membership rolls and I am such a friendly SOB that I am the local project family.
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10-09-2018, 11:50 AM #44
I'm sure there is a doctoral dissertation waiting in the works for it. It's certainly a thing, seems more so with Mormons than Catholics per say. Maybe its level of commitment required, being told the origin story since birth and when that comes crashing down it shatters their belief system to a core. I dunno, that's just a guess, I don't claim to know. I just find Mormonism pretty fascinating on a social level.
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10-09-2018, 11:56 AM #45
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10-09-2018, 06:53 PM #46
I like Mormon guys. I have a lot of canyoneering friends that are Mormon. They're well mannered and nice...they don't cuss or act like cads. Quite frankly, I feel compelled to temper my rather crass personality when I'm with them. That's a good thing.
Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
It all goes slo-mo
I don't know why I am crying
Am I suspended in Gaffa?
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10-09-2018, 11:32 PM #47
Yeah and I'm going to be so bold as to stand by my statement.
It sounds nice, saying Mormons tell people not to drink coffee, but it just doesn't happen. It doesn't. There might be the odd duck out there, I mean anything can happen, there could be a guy pulling his pants down and crossing the street, saying it's because he's Mormon. But we all know that Mormons aren't walking up to anybody during a drink and saying you're going to hell because you're drinking beer. It does NOT happen, but I've heard plenty of lies, saying crap like that does happen. Nope.
I don't doubt this happens, but it's not because Mormons practice this, it's because the parent is an asshole. A parent forcing their kids to exclude somebody because they aren't Mormon is bad parenting.
My son's 3 best friends are non Mormon. My best friend growing up 40 years ago was non Mormon. Not once was I told not to play with him. Did my parents ask if he was Mormon? Sure, but just as a general interest in who I'm hanging out with. They would ask if they go to church. I would say No. Then they would ask, Is he a good kid? I'd say yes, and that was that.
If a kid is excluded, it's not because he's not Mormon. But this is the jump to conclusions assumption. Maybe the kid is a straight up weirdo. Maybe they have nothing in common. Maybe they play Pokemon and the other kids play Minecraft.
I've heard it so many damned times, that "my kid has no friends because he's not Mormon" and it's because the parents tell their kids not to play with my kid. It's false, it doesn't happen, and it's one big giant assumption that is dead wrong. The parents need to step out of their box and go talk to the other parents, and set up a play date or whatever. Introduce your kids. They need to stop being a victim and do what's right for their kids, and meet up with the parents. They'd be very surprised to find out that they aren't all Mormon either, they rarely are. So it's one big assumption and they've let it eat them up inside at the expense of their kids' childhood.
If there's a group that excludes 1 kid, it's easy to say the Mormons aren't inclusive. But you know what, nowadays, more often than not, the 1 kid excluded is Mormon, and the group is non Mormon. That's the way it is in my neighborhood, a majority are non Mormon. Most of my kids' friends are non Mormon. So I'll say it one more time, the idea that kids are excluded because of a Mormon clique, it just isn't true.
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10-10-2018, 07:47 AM #48
OK Sombeech....you sure are desperate to convince everybody that Mormons are genuinely great people. It's almost like you're trying to destroy a long standing stereotype that Mormons are categorically judgmental and exclusionary. I think the majority of folks on here would agree with everything you've said so far, but stereotypes exist for a reason. They aren't just dreamed up out of the blue for no reason without any context.
Mormons are fundamentally people...and people by their very nature are selfish and prideful. There are plenty of selfish prideful Mormons out there -- enough to perpetuate these stereotypes that you claim are nonsense. If you don't believe that Mormons are exclusionary I would assert that you haven't seen enough Mormons. Or maybe you're in denial. There are a few places right here within Utah where a large part of the ward we were in were blatantly arrogant and judgmental -- now granted, they lived in a small town of 2000 people, so you could probably chalk that up to the "small town" mentality, but still -- their prideful attitudes was shocking behavior for folks who claimed to be LDS. And I'll also add that probably of anywhere where we've lived, by far the friendliest folks we've ever had the pleasure of living among were the folks in Green River, Wyoming. And that applies to Mormons and non Mormons alike. Maybe it was something in the water...
And about the coffee thing -- when I was a missionary, we routinely told folks not to drink coffee because we were routinely asked "what exactly constitutes a hot drink?" So there ya go -- an example of a Mormon telling somebody else not to drink coffee.It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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10-10-2018, 08:15 AM #49
I could be wrong, but I think the point Sombeech is trying to make is that while that stuff happens, it's not because they are being taught in Sunday School to go out and be mean to other people and exclude them because they aren't "one of us". If that's happening, it's because people are, like you said, people. I'll agree that it happens. A lot more than it should (shouldn't happen at all). Really, it shouldn't matter as long as they're good kids. There are several non members in my neighborhood that my kids play with. I don't really care if they go to church or not, and neither do they.
As for the coffee thing. When you're a missionary, teaching the gospel, and you get to the part about the word of wisdom, you tell them not to drink coffee. It should be done, like everything else, with the right approach and spirit of helping them understand. Not quite the same as walking into a cafe and declaring that everyone there is going to hell for drinking the infernal fire water that is coffee. But you knew that already.
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10-10-2018, 08:51 AM #50
I thought the reason you go the church is to learn how to judge other people?
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10-10-2018, 09:30 AM #51
Yeah, I agree and I'm sincerely trying not to be Mr. Snarky-pants about all of this.
I think your opinions are frequently colored by your immediate environment. For example, if my only contact with Mormons was with folks similar to the Green River populace, I think my opinion would forever be rosy and positive. On the other hand, if my only contact was with folks similar to the likes of this town-in-Utah-that-will-remain-unnamed, then I think I'd spend the rest of my life throwing rocks at the church and labeling them as hypocrites.
I think the Church's biggest problem is PR. The Church has a PR problem. They always have, and I think they've made some concerted effort in recent years to improve this. And I think much of this will change with the ushering in of the up and coming generation. Keep in mind, most (if not all) of the the members of the Presidency and Quorum of the 12 were alive to see the day when Mormons dealt with homosexuals in radically different ways.It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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10-10-2018, 09:33 AM #52
No, I know there are a bunch of assholes out there. If somebody is claiming a Mormon is telling them what to do, I'm calling it out.
Mormons have rules for themselves, basically if you want to be in this club, here are the rules. If you are not in this club and you have no interest in this club, there's no reason for Mormons to tell you what to do.
So for everybody claiming that they've been told by the church they are going to hell for drinking coffee, it's a straight up lie and we all know it.
If you're not in the club, they really don't care what you do, just don't start expecting the church to change and cater to your needs either.
Tolerance both ways and everything is great.
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10-10-2018, 09:38 AM #53
I find it funny its been discovered coffee has numerous dietary benefits. Nobody really dies of coffee or gets sick over it, it's actually beneficial. The word of wisdom, as far as I was taught was a "Recommended Guideline" but not required cause Emma Smith was sick of cleaning up pull tobacco messes during their meetings. My great great grandpa was one of the pioneers who settled Provo and was the guy that had the key to the town liquor cabinet.Town Alderman or something. The bar definitely got moved later but not really sure how and when.
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10-10-2018, 09:40 AM #54
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10-10-2018, 10:24 AM #55
Right, we tell people all the time what we believe and what we practice. But we don't, or shouldn't tell people what they should do or what they should practice. If they want to be in the club, we don't drink coffee.
If I shared my belief that I try not to Jaywalk, I'm not telling you to not Jaywalk. And in my daily struggles, trying not to Jaywalk and I slip up and run across the street, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I would be a hypocrite if I told you not to Jaywalk, while I know I am guilty of Jaywalking.
But I'm not telling anybody not to Jaywalk, I'm just telling you I am trying not to do it.
When the church says let's strive to not shop on Sundays, it is in no way telling non Mormons not to shop on Sundays. Mormons do not tell non Mormons not to shop on Sunday. Mormons are not telling non Mormons what to do. Mormons don't "shove religion" down anybody's throat. They have a conference every 6 months, and then non mormons will actively search out the controversial topics and cry about being oppressed by the church, when they sought out the topics, hence the original post in this thread.
If Mormons are oppressing others, then watch out because I've got a whole list of how the Mormons are getting falsely accused and blamed for BS nonsense.
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10-10-2018, 10:50 AM #56
Wait....so am I supposed to jaywalk then?
Just kiddin'. I get your analogies. You seem very defensive about this topic. I'm doing my best to try and find common ground and it seems like I'm always met with another lengthy rant about the injustices the LDS are continually subjected to. I think we can all agree that if a Mormon acts like an asshole that it's not because that's acceptable doctrine -- it's just cuz he's an asshole.It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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10-10-2018, 10:58 AM #57
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10-10-2018, 10:58 AM #58
I guess it comes down to semantics, but what about when the church heavily campaigns against the rights of gay people to get married (Prop 8)? Sure seems like the church telling other people how to live to me. And on a less important issue, how do things like the Zion Curtain get accounted? Medical MJ? Sunday beer sales in Highland, Utah?
I choose to live in Utah because I love to ski and recreate in our mountains and because my family is here. 95% of the time the strong Mormon influence here doesn't bother me at all, but there are some annoyances for sure when an organization has so much control on our government and laws. But even with the annoyances I like I here and get along with most just fine. But the idea that the church doesn't try to control many aspects of peoples lives is laughable. And certainly they did a lot more 20 years ago.
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10-10-2018, 11:00 AM #59
Nah, I'm just clarifying. People will bring up the gay topic and expect Mormons to cower away, but I'm just not afraid to discuss it.
If people want Mormons to not tell them what to do, then people should stop telling Mormons what to do.
Tolerance.
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10-10-2018, 11:14 AM #60
See....I was going to bring up examples like these but I was afraid that Sombeech would drop another half dozen metaphors on me so I capitulated.
@uintafly has a point. The most glaring example is Prop 8 in California when the church actually went as far as to fund campaign efforts. This one really boiled my blood. Utah's quirky liquor laws are another example of how the local religion does influence others. And it's not just coincidence that Utah is the only state in the entire Union that doesn't have some form of legalized gambling -- the Utah legislature is predominantly LDS. Go figure.It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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