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Thread: John McCain

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    Breaking silence by calling bullshit on two prominent forum members. 8:

    I really hope this guy sticks around. Things just got a little more interesting.
    Ditto....

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by powerplay View Post
    You do seem hellbent on finding a negative to his POW status and choices in those five + years. I am curious if you challenge all POWs that way? Is it cathartic to point out some detail like the above?
    You have it all wrong. I found the situation that McCain was placed in very intriguing. He was placed between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    McCain comes from a military family where both father and grandfather were 4 star admirals, to come home in disgrace (at least militarily) would have been a difficult situation. The military code of conduct is there for a reason.

    Or as the Spartans women would tell their husbands and sons as they headed into battle "come home with your shield or upon it."

    I find it interesting to contemplate what path I would have chosen. YMMV


  4. #23
    Thanks for the clarity. The was room for interpretation in the direction of my concern given your earlier use of the Trump quote.

    I can't remotely imagine the choice I would take faced with those forms of torture.

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  6. #24
    The Trump quote was Trump's quote, I never said I agreed with it, however I did find it humorous.

    By staying a POW McCain was simply following orders (code of conduct). He was given the choice of do the right thing or do the selfish thing, and put every other POW in peril. I believe to a man raised in a military family the decision was a rather easy one to make.



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  7. #25
    Yeah well...I still say the dude was a dickwad. I voted for him in '08 but in hindsight he may have actually been worse than Obama.

    Also, nice job he did pissing all over Palin. Says he lost the election because of her, when I think he would have lost worse without her.

    The Code of Conduct? I would have gotten out by any means possible. Unless of course, I could have set up a network like "Hogan's Heroes"...but I reckon those Vietnamese were a bit smarter than Klink or Schultz.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    The Code of Conduct? I would have gotten out by any means possible.
    Even if it meant placing the other US POW's into greater danger and peril? Perhaps resulting in the death of other POW's? That was the Choice given to McCain.

  9. #27
    Still a bitter dude towards Trump at the end of his life, not wanting him at his funeral. Yeah that was quite the comment to say about McCain about being captured and all, but damn, at the end of your life it's a commitment to hold these grudges even on your death bed. I wonder if he still holds as big of grudge towards his captors from the POW days?

    I hope I'm qualified to make such commentary, I didn't listen to any AM radio or watch Fox News, in like, 9 years. Maybe that's why I'm lacking in "original critical thinking" because I don't give a shit and I'm not wasting my life away listening to a daily political program.

    I'm too busy getting outdoors, and these are just my simple minded comments on the matter, I hope it's not too shallow. Talking points or not, it's either correct or incorrect.

    Welcome to Bogley by the way

  10. #28
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Gotta agree with beech, I've never been a Rush L. follower, probably ever listened to him for 15 minutes combined.

    Fox news? started out with good intentions, ended up at this point, very similar to the others.(news sensationalist/creators) not "reporters"

    I don't watch much tv, I get all my information strictly from bogley.
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  12. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Even if it meant placing the other US POW's into greater danger and peril? Perhaps resulting in the death of other POW's? That was the Choice given to McCain.
    If you could direct me to where I can read up on this, I'd appreciate it. 'Cuz I've never heard anything about other men being executed if they released him. Seems to me that they were already in great danger and peril.

    I never married or had kids, so there is no other human being on this planet that I'd give my life for. Staying healthy and strong to a ripe old age is the grand prize. I guess I can't "relate" to what he decided to do.

    Was he a war hero? Oh, absolutely. But IMO he was detestable otherwise.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  13. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    If you could direct me to where I can read up on this, I'd appreciate it. 'Cuz I've never heard anything about other men being executed if they released him. Seems to me that they were already in great danger and peril.
    No one ever mentioned executions. The NVA would have used McCain's release to break other POW's. More info here:

    https://amp.businessinsider.com/john...vietnam-2018-8




    Climb-Utah.com

  14. #31
    So the captors could say "The Admiral's son got out, and you didn't"? Like that would make a difference? They got their asses kicked anyway.

    They all broke. Even McCain did. Six of one, half friggin' dozen of the other.

    Still don't see where anybody's lives were threatened...aside from the daily ass whoopin's.

    It was a matter of honor, I suppose.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  15. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    So the captors could say "The Admiral's son got out, and you didn't"? Like that would make a difference? They got their asses kicked anyway.

    They all broke. Even McCain did. Six of one, half friggin' dozen of the other.

    Still don't see where anybody's lives were threatened...aside from the daily ass whoopin's.

    It was a matter of honor, I suppose.
    Yes, it makes a difference. Its why they developed the Code. Read up on the affects of POW flipping and collaboration in Korean War camps due to torture.

    These types of camps thrived on pysch ops torture as much as physical torture, as they go hand in hand. They slowly chipped away at any remaining moral, loyalty, training, etc by any means available. So yeah, as McCain said, exploiting other soldiers with class differences and privileges if McCain had accepted the offer is a fair accurate conclusion. A high ranking officer with higher ranking family leaving the camp would have provided a ton of tools for the Vietnamese camp personnel to use against our country and the remaining POWs.

    I don't know of a definitive source on the subject but its still being talked about:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ith-the-enemy/

  16. #33
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  17. #34
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  18. #35
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  19. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by powerplay View Post
    Yes, it makes a difference. Its why they developed the Code. Read up on the affects of POW flipping and collaboration in Korean War camps due to torture.

    These types of camps thrived on pysch ops torture as much as physical torture, as they go hand in hand. They slowly chipped away at any remaining moral, loyalty, training, etc by any means available. So yeah, as McCain said, exploiting other soldiers with class differences and privileges if McCain had accepted the offer is a fair accurate conclusion. A high ranking officer with higher ranking family leaving the camp would have provided a ton of tools for the Vietnamese camp personnel to use against our country and the remaining POWs.

    I don't know of a definitive source on the subject but its still being talked about:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ith-the-enemy/
    hmmmm, new guy uses words and sources instead of a meme generator?? What has happened to this forum??

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  21. #37
    Powerplay,

    oldno7 is a tough meme generating nut to crack. At least most of these posters can muster words so I give them credit.

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  23. #38
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    Powerplay,

    oldno7 is a tough meme generating nut to crack. At least most of these posters can muster words so I give them credit.
    I've posted more material comments than most, sorry your education failed and you cant read.

    Theres always room for a good pooper scooper in your hometown.
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  24. #39
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    I'm not Spartacus


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    Who Is John Galt?

  25. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    hmmmm, new guy uses words and sources instead of a meme generator?? What has happened to this forum??
    Maybe it's not a guy

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