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Thread: Supreme Court Justice
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08-20-2018, 05:35 PM #21
Media's biggest Kavanaugh misses: Aspiring hit pieces on Supreme Court pick draw mockery
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...w-mockery.html
Climb-Utah.com
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08-20-2018 05:35 PM # ADS
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09-03-2018, 02:29 AM #22
Hammer, meet nail....
"Watching this confirmation unfold is like watching the tortured last moments of a blowout basketball game, Democrats are down thirty with ten seconds left, but they keep fouling to stop the shot clock in an attempt to avoid their inevitable defeat." -Senator Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
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09-04-2018, 10:14 AM #23
WOW!!! This conformation is going to be UGLY....
Democrat's are using a new tactic, which is to basically lay down on the Senate floor and throw a massive temper tantrum. But they are doing it one at a time, when one finishes the next one goes ballistic.
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Post Thanks / Like - 3 Likes
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09-04-2018, 10:22 AM #24
Yeah, they've got these women all fired up that this guy is coming for their noonie.
They remind me of all these crazy old cat ladies that live around me here at my condo...convinced that there's a rapist lurking behind every bush.Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
It all goes slo-mo
I don't know why I am crying
Am I suspended in Gaffa?
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09-04-2018, 10:35 AM #25
And just to bring ya'll up to date... according to the left, the world as we know it will come to an abrupt and fiery end if Kavanaugh is confirmed to SCOTUS.
Kavanaugh Supreme Court hearing kicks off with numerous arrests as protesters shout down lawmakers
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...lawmakers.html
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09-04-2018, 11:00 AM #26
Code Pink's tactics aren't new; their obstructionist tactics were developed around the Bush Era as I understand it, so coming up on 20 years ago. The Woman's March is funding legal help for some of their people but they seem more classically NVD then Code Pink.
And obstruction is in our country's DNA. Odd that so many right-leaning folks mock it. Its not my jam as a centrist but it clearly serves a valid purpose. Not my cup of tea but citizens actively engaging in governance is the point of representative countries like ours. And non-violent disobedience is happening on both sides as we speak. That is what Defense Distributed did with their schematics. Theater is always part of that process.
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09-04-2018, 11:07 AM #27
There is no doubt this will be a turning point for Roe V Wade, ie women's reproductive health. No one is hiding that fact on the right. Pence and several others have been paving this road for a long time. There are 2-3 major socially conservative organizations that have set out influencing Congressional votes for a while on subjects like this. Its uneducated and disingenuous to ignore this fact and then mock women for protecting critical gains they made in previous decades.
Sadly, the DNC played their part in opening this door and evangelicals conservatives are just exploiting that reality. No one group deserves all the credit as they have all pushed Congress and SCOTUS nominations/hearings to this disfunction.
The next step will be the next Democratly owned Congress and POTUS, it will happen if history holds, stacking the court. There is no Constitutional definition for SCOTUS size and its happened several times in the past. But that move (action and counteraction) will just delegitimize to the point of crisis. The "best case" for the foreseeable future, without a noticeable correction, is a SCOTUS that changes ideology every 4-8 years as it becomes loaded with more partisan picks, or at least justices polluted by that perception. And evagelical views/opinions on women's reproductive health will remain a big part of that until libertarians and/or traditional conservatives divorce themselves from that base (never?).
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09-04-2018, 11:45 AM #28
Am I just naive in thinking that the notion of Roe v Wade ever being reversed is fallacy? I always thought that pretty much everybody had come to accept the legality of abortion in the U.S. -- many folks may not like it, but it was always unquestionably here to stay.
Personally, I think all of this panic about Trump's newest SCOTUS picks overturning Roe v Wade is a gross overreaction. I don't see much evidence of that actually becoming a reality. If I'm way off base someone please enlighten me.It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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09-04-2018, 11:51 AM #29
abortion isn't going anywhere, what may change is government funding.
I'm not Spartacus
It'll come back.
Professional Mangler of Grammar
Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!
Who Is John Galt?
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09-04-2018, 11:54 AM #30
I'm all in favor of people being able to make their own choices, I'm also very much in favor of the responsibility of those choices, rest on those who make them.
I'm not Spartacus
It'll come back.
Professional Mangler of Grammar
Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!
Who Is John Galt?
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09-04-2018, 12:17 PM #31
Actually reversed? Not possible.
Legally made invalid through future rulings (plural) Yes. Make no mistake, current laws are working their way into legal confrontation that will require SCOTUS involvement within 2-6 years. The recent dialog involves "deference" to Roe v Wade but that is an intentional framing. Even Lindsey Graham stated yesterday that "it can be overturned, like every other decision" and recognized Kavanaugh's ability to do so:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ruling/569203/
Roe v Wade is contextual like every precedent so we only need new laws to be challenged with different context and nuance to ultimately change Roe v Wade's influence and meaning. We just need a SCOTUS willing to build future precedent that expands that broader interpretation. Pro-choice advocates have always known Roe v Wade was a tenuous foundation for abortion access because it is judicial precedent and not legislation. So have Pro-life activists. Several laws are already working their way through the lower courts and they appear to have been designed to do so (given the advise of the state AGs against such laws).
And no, not everyone "accepts" the legality of abortion (within the parameters of Roe v Wade). There have been major movements the last decade that prove this. And citizens are stuck voting for a myriad of issues so its not unusual for a pro-life candidate to get votes from citizens who are pro-choice because of the compromise inherent in voting. Remember, Pence rallied on this very issue in 2016:
"“I’m pro-life and I don’t apologize for it,” he said during a town hall meeting here. “We’ll see Roe vs. Wade consigned to the ash heap of history where it belongs.”
Until we have federal legislation that explicitly protects access to abortion to a defined limit (# of weeks, etc) then Roe v Wade will always be vulnerable to future rulings.
Kavanaugh's ultimate approval won't be armageddon but it will have major implications for not only the types of cases the SCOTUS will accept but ultimately the majority ruling.
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09-04-2018, 12:18 PM #32
I can't find anything Ted states that I would disagree with.
I'm not Spartacus
It'll come back.
Professional Mangler of Grammar
Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!
Who Is John Galt?
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09-04-2018, 12:40 PM #33
Oh I'm not mocking obstructionism. Mitch McConnell used it brilliantly to block Merit Garland and insert Neil Gorsuch.
The difference in my opinion is McConnell had a realistic chance and combined it with an excellent end game.
The left has literally zero chance of blocking Brett Kavanaugh and making this work. But in the process they are going to alienate middle America with their tactics.
This reminds me a lot of the massive hole the NFL has dug with the National Anthem Protests. The first rule when you find yourself in a hole should be to stop digging.
YMMV
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09-04-2018, 01:11 PM #34
If your idea is the individuals will alienate some voters, then clearly yes. You overstate and overuse the "left" and the scale of that influence though. I think we'll find the bulk of those who they piss off weren't undecided come the midterms anyways. And the "left" is no more homogeneous then the right is at the moment so your claim is spin at best.
I agree they have little chance of blocking Kavanaugh and I think their strategy is flawed if its focused on that.
Your interpretation is decidedly unbalanced. You talk of McConnells brilliance but don't mention anything how this type of obstruction by a minority group actually recruits people. There should be no doubt that this show of public resistance is gaining traction with women who know the tenuous nature of Roe v Wade. Ignoring the massive recruitment of these groups over the last year is as blindsided as it was for mainstream pundits to ignore Trump's appeal in 2016. Most people aren't paying attention to the fact groups like these are successfully garnering alot of interest and money in some of Trump's 2016 strongholds. In some cases they are fundraising 2to1 in areas that have never swung democrat. All too often those invested in the majority power ignore those realities and we know how that pans out.
And comparing citizen obstruction to the obstruction of the Majority Party's leader isn't remotely apples to apples. Citizens have taken to the floor of public venue with no chance of winning throughout our history and made major strides in the long game. And they have done so against the grain of "middle America" sentiments. Just look at the civil rights movement; they alienated "middle America" to the consternation of JFK and most folks in DC.
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09-04-2018, 01:29 PM #35
Two months and we'll see which one of us is correct. I hope you stick around that long...
In the mean time you can watch me cheer Kavanaugh's confirmation while I drink heartily from the chalice of liberal tears.
Climb-Utah.com
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09-04-2018, 01:46 PM #36
You won't be alone in the celebration of his appointment.
And I have no clue how the midterms will go. The only thing I am confident of are the lame partisan memes will keep flowing.
It is interesting to watch a portion of "conservatives" so elated by the nomination of a guy who holds some of the most expansive views of Executive Power in our lifetimes. Hard to predict what influence that will have but it should be of concern to anyone that values checks and balances in our federal system. He may have elements of a "strict" interpretation of the Constitution but he is part of a new school of that camp that is a wild card. And my guess is that will come into play sooner than later given both parties love expansive executive power when they are in office.
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09-04-2018, 02:00 PM #37
If Congress truly cared about the balance of power they would stop succeeding their power to the executive branch and instead they would do their job.
Part of being a leader is taking what is handed to you and doing the most with it, I find it hard to condemn any president for doing just that.
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09-04-2018, 02:18 PM #38It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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09-04-2018, 02:19 PM #39
You have vocalized a support for that sort of power many times so I'm not shocked. I'm more Constitutional and libertarian in this regard and Kavanaugh's theories don't align well with the balance of power. And yes, Congress kowtows too much but its a negative feedback cycle that is leading us towards a more authoritarian executive power which isn't friendly to civilian liberty. And its not just about the Congress.
And I think there could be alot of pissed of conservatives down the road when we start to see an Executive who doesn't happen to agree with their stances exert the expansive power they so easily justified in the past. Its why consistency is key in the face of short term temptation but neither party seems to exhibit that trait anymore. But the hypocrisy bites them all in the ass eventually. And while its cathartic while "your" party is in power it ultimately leads to slow erosion of personal liberty.
Dysfunction Junction. When we get past the bread and circuses of this Administration and the unbending resistance of the opposition I think alot of value oriented citizens will look back at the deterioration of Senate norms during these hearings (its been a long road to here) in dismay and be shocked at what was swept under the rug. It will effect citizens of each party differently but there will be detrimental consequences for all of us.
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09-04-2018, 02:38 PM #40
And on that note.... why aren't we hearing anything from the Democrats on how Harry Reid sold them down the river?!?
Inquiring minds want to know....
And just for the record, I consider myself a Libertarian as I'm closer to their ideology than any other.
I also believe Trump is more of a pragmatist than he is a Republican. He is just using the GOP to achieve his end.
YMMV
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