The Utah Opiod Epidemic

[Sombeech]

I think we're all familiar with this phrase now in the last year or 2. My wife as she's continuing her Nurse education to become a Nurse Practitioner, is doing some interviews and essays on the Opiod Epidemic in Utah.

She as a Registered Nurse in a surgical center, and I with a history of opiate use from multiple knee surgeries, have had some healthy back and forth debate on the topic.

One of the first assumptions about Utah and the "opiodemic" here, is that because the LDS Church opposes alcohol and tobacco, Mormons must then think they get an allowance for prescription meds.

At a glance, this theory makes perfect sense, but asking a few questions, I think we can see there are a few holes. What about the non LDS that use and abuse opiates? They have no alliance against alcohol. I know plenty of non LDS people that have used and abused opiates, so the LDS rules have no part to play in their reasoning. Also, the LDS faith holds just as much contempt for improper medication abuse as alcohol or tobacco, and believe me, Mormons know about it.

So there must be other reasons besides religion that might explain the high ratio of opiate use here in Utah.

What are your thoughts? As part of her assignment, she will be holding a phone interview with Lieutenant Governor Cox about this topic. She is also looking for some key questions to ask him, so if you can think of some great questions she should ask, please post them here.

Thanks!

[rockgremlin]

To me, it's simple: LDS folks are counseled against drinking alcohol - a substance that many, many people use the world over to take the edge off after a hard day's work. So if you can't turn to alcohol, what's the logical substitute?

Opiates....provided that you have a prescription from a doctor -- which in a way is kind of like permission.

I have other insights about this. Hit me up sideband...

[Sandstone Addiction]

What irritates me about this whole deal is how opiates have been demonized.

I've never abused them, but I have taken them on numerous occasions and glad I had them. I took Percocet for 1 week following ACL reconstruction and couldn't imagine going through that without it.

So now, with all talk on the media and the banners at the DR office displaying how evil painkillers are, I almost feel embarrassed and guilty asking for something to take the edge off of occasional back pain, etc. I'm sure the first thing that goes through the Docs mind is "Yea right...I'll bet this guy doesn't really need them for pain..."

I'm sure the vast majority of patients, like myself, benefiting from their use don't get hooked, so why are people like me being punished for the actions of a few?

[Sandstone Addiction]

The only faithful LDS people I know that have been hooked have had chronic pain and became addicted from legitimate use.

At least in my neighborhood, no one that I see every week at church is just popping pills.

But then again, I might just be naive??

[rockgremlin]

What irritates me about this whole deal is how opiates have been demonized.

I've never abused them, but I have taken them on numerous occasions and glad I had them. I took Percocet for 1 week following ACL reconstruction and couldn't imagine going through that without it.

So now, with all talk on the media and the banners at the DR office displaying how evil painkillers are, I almost feel embarrassed and guilty asking for something to take the edge off of occasional back pain, etc. I'm sure the first thing that goes through the Docs mind is "Yea right...I'll bet this guy doesn't really need them for pain..."

I'm sure the vast majority of patients, like myself, benefiting from their use don't get hooked, so why are people like me being punished for the actions of a few?

You're spot on with this post. I too am angry about the current media blitz directed at demonizing opiates. I have close family members who suffer from chronic pain who can't get opiate pain killers because their doctors are mortified to prescribe them. So they take work off and spend days writhing in agony in bed, taking Ibuprofen to no effect. It's bullshit.

The fact is....of all of the people who take opiates, only 8-10% may become addicted. The other 90+% are perfectly capable of taking them responsibly with no threat of addiction. Statistics and iterative data analysis has proven this. But that's all now swept under the rug by the media frenzy directed at opiates.

[rockgremlin]

But hey -- if you can't get much needed opiate pain relief legitimately through a doctor, there are other avenues that one may pursue -- like street heroin, or cannabis from neighboring states, right?

[Sombeech]

So she's been trying to think of some questions to ask leutenant governor cox. I said she may even ask what his thoughts are on the herb "Kratom", as it has been known to ease withdrawals from opiates, which I believe is the key to avoiding addiction.

And again, I believe the issue is much deeper than an LDS population. Skip the Mormons for now and consider why non Mormons are addicted to opiates. It's not because of LDS teachings.

Utah isn't the top opiate addicted state either, although this is a popular theme, usually perpetrated by those who haven't stepped outside of Utah.

I think it's the absence of strategy for tapering off of the pain meds. You'll get 30 or 60 pills after a surgery with absolutely zero instruction of how to stop when the pills run out. I believe this is key.

[tallsteve]

The worst pain I've ever felt has been tooth pain from an abscess. The ONLY thing that made the pain subside was an opiate. I've also taken them right after 3 knee surgeries and back and neck surgery. I'm glad I had them but, quit taking them within 24-36 hours or so post surgery. I don't like the "loopy" feeling. Maybe it's because I've never been drunk or had alcohol in my life, haha! I still have several prescription bottles of the stuff in my medicine cabinet. I need to go through them and throw out the really old stuff. Every once in a while I'll take one for really bad back pain but, it's rare.

[Sombeech]

I still have several prescription bottles of the stuff in my medicine cabinet.

That's one thing I wouldn't admit to too many people. I know people that would come up with the strangest excuse to come over and see you.

Want a free estimate for carpet cleaning? How about a free test for C02 in your house? Addicts are very creative when they know somebody's got some pills, especially if they aren't being used and counted.

Then some people will just break in and steal them when you aren't home. Friends have had this happen. And then if they think you'll get them replaced because they're gone now, watch out.


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[Sombeech]

While I'm on topic, here are some methods that addicts will use, and have used.

They come over to see you, ask to use the bathroom. Not in that one? They'll wait for that bathroom to be in use then they'll REALLY need to go RIGHT NOW so they can go check out the other bathroom.

You gotta go somewhere? Oh is it ok if they just let themselves out?

Hey I'm on my way to meet you guys at the picnic but I forgot something, can I swing by your house to grab it and let myself in?

Can my kids come play with your kids? Hey I'm watching them if you need to run on an errand or something.

Hey is your water pressure weird in your shower? Mine is. Are you sure? No? Can I just come over and check?



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[tallsteve]

That's one thing I wouldn't admit to too many people. I know people that would come up with the strangest excuse to come over and see you.

I don't. Except here on Bogley! So, unless there's a bunch of addicts on here, I'm not too worried about it. Plus, I don't keep them in the "normal" places someone with an addiction would look. They'd never find them unless they had a week or so to search.

[uintafly]

So she's been trying to think of some questions to ask leutenant governor cox. I said she may even ask what his thoughts are on the herb "Kratom", as it has been known to ease withdrawals from opiates, which I believe is the key to avoiding addiction.

And again, I believe the issue is much deeper than an LDS population. Skip the Mormons for now and consider why non Mormons are addicted to opiates. It's not because of LDS teachings.

Utah isn't the top opiate addicted state either, although this is a popular theme, usually perpetrated by those who haven't stepped outside of Utah.

I think it's the absence of strategy for tapering off of the pain meds. You'll get 30 or 60 pills after a surgery with absolutely zero instruction of how to stop when the pills run out. I believe this is key.

Are there really people out there saying Utah is #1 in opiate addiction? lol, they need to go to KY or West Virginia some time. A while back I spent a day in family court in Eastern KY. Without a doubt it was the most disturbing day of my life. I lost some faith in humanity that day. Grandpas arrested for DUI with grandkids in car (parents already lost custody), 8 year old boy screaming "I WANT MY MOMMYYYY!!!" as the bailiff leads her out and the dad tries to wrestle the boy. 3 hours of destroyed families dealing with the consequences of drugs and shitty parenting. Just thinking about it has ruined my day. Thanks bogley.

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?

[middlefork]

My $.02 is that it is much easier to hide opiate use than some other substances.

People use all kinds of substances and actions to affect the way they feel. But most are more or less visible to others, think smoking or drinking. Even running or adventure sports (Endorphin, Adrenalin). Prescription opiates are a simple small action that will produce a known response.

The problems begin when a given dose stops creating the desired affect or an illegal substance starts to be substituted because of supply or demand.It is also my understanding that people become somewhat immune to the effects of a certain dosage after time.

I think most people refer the the opiate problem as a problem with the overdoses caused by excessive use. I believe this is a dosage problem. Much like if a little is good , a lot is better type thinking.

[rockgremlin]

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?

He said he'd tell me and nobody else. I have Right of Discovery here. Get in line...

[tallsteve]

But back to more happy things: tallsteve, what's your address?

Hmmmmm..... wondering now what the street value is!

[Sombeech]

Are there really people out there saying Utah is #1 in opiate addiction? lol, they need to go to KY or West Virginia some time.

Yeah it's usually some post on Facebook. Just like I'm sure we've all heard somebody say Utah has the highest gay suicide rate, and it's followed by the standard reasoning "because of the Mormon church". I've even read people think Utah has bad air pollution because of the Mormons! I tell ya, anything to pin on that Mormon cult just sounds so right.

I mean, we all know the outdoor retail show left Utah because of Mormons, and now the oil rigs are knocking down goblins and Hoodoos, so it's all linked. Circle of life. Mormons hate nature.

In my wife's study, it turns out utah ranks 7th. But when I ask what that means, is it usage per capita? Is it overdoses? Is it the number of prescriptions? I like details, and when I start digging in, that's when... it starts..... to get fuzzy......... So who knows. It could mean any number of things, because "7th in the nation for opiate use" doesn't really define anything.


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[rockgremlin]

because "7th in the nation for opiate use" doesn't really define anything.

You're absolutely right.

So what are the statistics broken down according to total overdoses, opioid deaths per capita, etc, etc? And who is supposedly in the top 3 if Utah is 7th?

[Iceaxe]

Interesting.....

[Sombeech]

Interesting.....

Imma call a big ol batch of bullshit on this I one. Either that calculation is misleading, or they are counting ibuprofen and anti inflatories as painkillers.

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[rockgremlin]

^^^ NSAIDs - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatant Drugs = Aspirin, Naproxen (Aleve), Ibuprofen, etc. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) isn't an NSAID.