Cue the Anti-AR15 Crowd in 3, 2, 1.....

[Scott P]

One item you will find in common with most these mass shootings is that the killers studied previous events in great detail.

I was thinking of that too. I wonder how much social media plays a part? Now days you can find detailed instructions on how a mass murder is planned out. Also, a lot of people are doing dumb things for social media attention and infamy.

I'm surprised that you say that since I thought you were an atheist (and I assume you still are).

Anyway, here's a post I made recently on FB, and it is relevant here.

It is silly to blame it all on one political side or another.

Until our ward was dissolved recently, I was in the LDS Bishopric, of which religion its members consider themselves Christian (though I won't debate that here). I kept hearing and still here that all the violence is because God was taken out of schools, we are becoming less religious as a country, etc., etc. That's just a cop out and a way to judge others and point the finger.

There is a correlation between how Christian a nation is and violence and murders, but it's not what people claim. With only a few exceptions, the more Christian a nation is, the more violent that nation is. Here are two maps.






Does than mean that people should stop being religious or that religion should be banned? No, it does not mean that. What it does mean though that people should stop blaming others different from them for all the world's problems. Something else should be done rather than just blaming others who are different from you.

[oldno7]

Broward County Sheriff's deputies were called to the family home of shooter Nikolas Cruz 39 times since 2010, according to documents obtained by CNN. The range of emergency calls included reports of a mentally ill person, child/elderly abuse, domestic disturbance and missing person. Details of those calls are not immediately available; most of them are marked "no written report," so it's impossible to know if they involved Cruz. The family home was sold in January 2017, according to property records.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46262716&nid=157&title=run-a-6-minute-fatal-rampage-for-shocked-florida-school

[Iceaxe]

...

[Iceaxe]

I'm surprised that you say that since I thought you were an atheist (and I assume you still are).

I'm probably somewhere between agnostic and/or deist if you want to label my beliefs.

And while I may not buy into organized religion I do try to live by the golden rule and wish everyone did.

[oldno7]

And even more of them aren't. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Robert Lewis Dear, Paul Anthony Ciancia, etc. were all from the right wing. It is silly to blame it all on one political side or another.

Your statement is disingenuous and lacking balance.


it is in conclusive and lacking, clearly an attempt to do as you say--" It is silly to blame it all on one political side or another."

In 2003 Douglas Williams, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.

In 2007 a Democrat named Seung – Hui Cho, shot and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech.

In 2010 a mentally ill Democrat named Jared Lee Loughner, shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed 6 others.

In 2011 a Democrat named James Holmes, went into a movie theater and shot and killed 12 people.

In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.

In 2013 a Democrat named Adam Lanza, shot and killed 26 people in a school in Newtown , CT.

Sept 2013, an angry Democrat shot 12 at a Navy ship yard.

how about that socialist guy who killed Kennedy?

fort hood shooter

columbine killers

DC snipers

Chattanooga TN Marine Recruiting center shooter

Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber)

Orlando nightclub

San Bernadino



and on and on.........

[DirkHammergate]

I'm probably somewhere between agnostic and/or deist if you want to label my beliefs.

And while I may not buy into organized religion I do try to live by the golden rule and wish everyone did.

Same here, Sombeech tried to cock block my ability to send "thoughts" and "prayers" to people earlier. I wasn't happy about that.

[tallsteve]

Wow, I don't look at my own thread for several hours then come back to this. That'll teach me.
I firmly believe it’s a societal issue. Disintegration of the family. Absentee fathers. Violence in video games. Violence in movies. Violence in pornography, etc. People aren’t humans anymore- just objects to do whatever to; 1 upping on social media; mental illness; and on and on. I guess my point is that pretty much all of my more liberal friends (and I have a lot), always, always, always, make it about the instrument used in the murders with very little to none about the why. If you take away the instrument used the murders will stop and I so disagree with that. Until the societal issues are fixed, murder will continue.
The day of this shooting, I watched one of the local Florida news stations interview a kid who used to be friends with the shooter. He said the shooter was always showing him stuff on his smartphone about guns and how to build home-made bombs. So, if he wouldn’t have had access to a gun, he would have used a bomb. Or a vehicle. Or whatever else was at his disposal.
But, let’s circle back to the instrument used in this mass murder episode, the AR15, since my liberal friends are calling for them to be outright banned. Ban the AR15 and the “assault rifle” in general, they say (because we all know what AR stands for, right?). No one needs to own one, they say. They are only good for killing, they say. They are too “high powered” they say. They are too scary! They are too black! They are too….whatever.
Now let’s look at the facts. I have poured over the FBI data on murder in the US. They have it broken down by state and the instrument used in those murders. The latest FBI reports I can find are from 2016 (linked below). For fun let’s look at the stats for California. In 2016 there were 1,930 murders. Of that number only 37 were murders by rifle, which includes AR15’s of course. 37. How many of those were done with an AR? Don’t know. Let’s assume maybe 75%. What’s that then, 27? 27 out of 1,930. What’s even more crazy are the “other” instruments of murder. Again, California 2016: Knives or cutting instruments- 280. Hands, fists, feet- 89. Other weapons- 193. So, pretty much every other instrument of murder category is higher than rifles. If my liberal friends logic holds true then that the instrument be banned, we need to therefore ban all knives and other cutting instruments along with hands, fists and feet because way more people are murdered with those than with AR15’s. These ratios hold true for nearly every other state in the US as well.
Bottom line, murder by rifle is relatively low and even lower if you take in the fact that AR15’s are lumped in with all other rifles.
And what about alcohol related vehicle deaths? That annual number in the US is what, around 12,000 or so if I recall correctly? I don’t hear anyone screaming to have vehicles or alcohol banned. I don’t believe any more legislation will stop mass murders from happening as my liberal friends proclaim.
Let’s fix what we have on the books now. If the system we have in place were working, this kid should have never been allowed to purchase a firearm. And shame on those who saw this kids evil heart and never did anything about it.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-12

[Scott P]

it is in conclusive and lacking, clearly an attempt to do as you say--" It is silly to blame it all on one political side or another."

Your statement is disingenuous and lacking balance.

I was responding to someone on FB who was blaming the left for the shootings and violence.

Original comment:

Many of those are known to be unhinged leftists. I think they call themselves progressive nowadays. One not often cited, is the shooter at the Congressional softball game when Steve Scalise was shot. He was shooting Republicans and some lefties shamefully claimed he deserved it.

My response:

"Many of those are known to be unhinged leftists."

And even more of them aren't. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Robert Lewis Dear, Paul Anthony Ciancia, etc. were all from the right wing. It is silly to blame it all on one political side or another.

Since it's out of context, I can delete the first sentence of my post so the point is not lost.

PS, I know you guys hate Snopes, but for those interested, here is a breakdown of some of those on your list:

https://www.snopes.com/democrat-shooters-list/

I stand by my statement that it's silly to blame everything on one political side or the other.

[Scott P]

Violence in pornography, etc.

I'm not a pornography expert, but are you talking about S & M? OK, maybe I don't want to know.

I firmly believe it’s a societal issue. Disintegration of the family. Absentee fathers. Violence in video games. Violence in movies. Violence in pornography, etc. People aren’t humans anymore- just objects to do whatever to; 1 upping on social media; mental illness; and on and on

If so, why have crime rates declined significantly in recent years? Even with the mass shootings, crime rates are still near historic lows.

If the system we have in place were working, this kid should have never been allowed to purchase a firearm.

The purchase was legal. Here are the Florida requirements for purchasing a firearm:

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FPP/FAQs2.aspx

Having metal illness, making violent threats, or having a non-felony criminal record isn't enough to exclude one from purchasing a firearm. You have to have a felony, have the State declare you mentally incompetent (which seldom happens until after a murder is committed and is usually a tool for the defense), or be forcefully institutionalized.

The shooter met none of the exclusions.

And shame on those who saw this kids evil heart and never did anything about it.

A lot of students and some faculty reported his behavior. Nothing was done.

Let’s fix what we have on the books now.

So far, here are some of the people who have said that.

Trump
Obama
Oldno7
Iceaxe
Me
Tall Steve
Democrats
Republicans

So, why isn't it being done? Both political parties agree. Everyone on Bogley seems to agree(?). Presumably a vast majority of the population agrees. Everyone, especially politicians are giving lip service to enforcing existing laws, but it's not being done.

[oldno7]

It is not in any parties interest to solve problems, they only exist because of problems, perceived or otherwise.

This is why Trump has been so successful, he owes no party and is a problem solver.

Funny how everyone, and I mean everyone decries politicians and what they do/don't do but then when we get someone who makes

changes that benefit all citizens, he's a bad guy...

[Scott P]

This is why Trump has been so successful, he owes no party and is a problem solver.

OK, so what is Trump doing to remedy the situation? (Asked as a question, because I don't know and can't say either way).

[tallsteve]

A lot of students and some faculty reported his behavior. Nothing was done.[/COLOR]



So far, here are some of the people who have said that.

Trump
Obama
Oldno7
Iceaxe
Me
Tall Steve
Democrats
Republicans

So, why isn't it being done? Both political parties agree. Everyone on Bogley seems to agree(?). Presumably a vast majority of the population agrees. Everyone, especially politicians are giving lip service to enforcing existing laws, but it's not being done.

The FBI just stated that they failed to follow up on submitted reports for this guy. So, let's start there because it sounds like there's a big disconnect between submitted reports and actual investigations.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46262716&ni...lorida-suspect

And, for the record, I'm not a porn expert either. I'm taking my information from an anti-porn, pro love/pro sex non-profit organization I support (monetarily) and follow.

[tallsteve]

I just received this email from my Representative, John Curtis, and I support his statements and actions:

During the last 24 hours, many have spoken out on the violent shooting that left 17 dead. For me, I have used this time for deep reflection and soul searching. I have not been ready to issue a statement because like many of you, I’ve grown weary of the inaction we have seen after our communities witness horrific events, like what has taken place in Parkland, Florida this week. Although I think offering condolences and prayers for the victims and their families is appropriate, I keep asking myself what I would expect from my elected leaders if that was one of my children or grandchildren killed? As a supporter and protector of the Second Amendment, I call on my friends and associates to show leadership and to not retreat. We understand firearms and are the most qualified to bring answers forward. We can and must provide solutions that both honor Second Amendment rights and protect our neighborhoods and schools. We need to start somewhere. I mean really start. We are sad, hurt, angry and frustrated. So, let’s use this as our motivation to focus in on solutions. Not just feel good solutions, but real answers that truly address the problem. To me, that means looking at mental illness, school security, warning signs, and, yes, even who can access firearms. Below I’ve outlined four steps that I have and will continue to support immediately: We must properly enforce gun laws and regulations currently on the books—every single time. Additionally, the Senate should follow our lead in the House and pass the Fix NICS Act, which, with my support, passed the House on December 6, 2017. This important legislation enforces current background check laws by applying penalties to government agencies for not reporting information to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). We must outlaw any other device that converts a legal weapon into an illegal weapon. Congress must pass legislation that provides further resources to help law enforcement, teachers, and administrators identify warning signs. For this purpose, I have cosponsored H.R. 4909, the STOP School Violence Act of 2018. This legislation reauthorizes a grant program for school security and specifically focuses on training schools and communities to identify warning signs and to intervene before a shooting takes place. We need to take a comprehensive look at school security and we must dedicate more resources to protect our schools with the same level of commitment that we use to protect our celebrities, elected officials, and airports. Let there be no doubt – I’m an advocate for American’s constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. I’ve spent much of my professional life helping law enforcement through building training facilities, and I’ve even lectured for the NRA. I’m a gun owner and I would never give that gun up. But that said, it’s time for Congress to find our voice and do the right thing.

[DirkHammergate]

I can get behind that. It's certainly far better than saying "let's not make any "knee jerk" reactions to gun control" after every mass shooting spree in the last 3 year like Paul Ryan does.

[oldno7]

Sounds like John Curtis monitors, bogley.

[DirkHammergate]

Here is my Congresswoman's response... sigh.

https://love.house.gov/press-release...kland-florida/

02/15/2018 Words cannot express my level of sorrow and grief about the unspeakable tragedy in Parkland, Florida. I am grateful to law enforcement for their prompt, compassionate response to the school, and who were able to bring this terror to an end. As a mother, I feel for the families in the community and I’m sending my love and prayers to them.

[middlefork]

1. We must outlaw any other device that converts a legal weapon into an illegal weapon.

[middlefork]

1. We must outlaw any other device that converts a legal weapon into an illegal weapon.

I'm not sure he really thought this one through. Just changing magazine capacity can make a gun illegal. Not to mention banning any abrasive that may alter the sear.

[Iceaxe]

Sounds like the FBI really screwed the pooch on this one...

http://www.king5.com/mobile/article/...tion/519696084

The tip the FBI received was very detailed and they dropped the ball.

This isn't going to help the FBI's image. First the agency is politicized and now they miss a big fat slow ball pitched right over the plate.

[oldno7]

.....