Cue the Anti-AR15 Crowd in 3, 2, 1.....

[Iceaxe]

I understand the concept quite well actually, and never called for banning of guns. I just wish we'd be honest and admit that it's a tradeoff we are willing to make.

Now I see the flaw in your thinking!

As it's NOT a tradeoff that many are willing to make. And unless you can get 75% of the states to agree it's just not going to happen. What part of "Shall not be infringed" are you having trouble understanding?

I accept the risks, but maybe I'm just old school because I also accept personal responsibility. I prefer to have the security of my family and myself under my control and not that of others.

[Scott Card]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, and theater goers, shoppers, concert goers, kindergartners and coworkers.

Well, Thomas Jefferson had it right by placing the "." after the word "tyrants." Your additions to this quote of adding theater goers, shoppers, concert goers, etc. creates a false moral equivalency (bad argument) to patriots and tyrants. Those two, patriots and tyrants, are moral opposites. One good, one bad. Adding your categories of people to the statement makes no sense and is not persuasive. Perhaps you meant to say "murderer" and "cop"? That would be more equivalent to tyrant and patriot. You may get a few tugs of the heart strings but your statement just doesn't fly.

Interesting thing about the real quote is that Thomas Jefferson also said that the blood of patriots and tyrants is the "natural manure" of the tree of liberty. Here is a piece of the letter from Jefferson to William Stevens Smith written shortly after the completion of the Constitution, but before any state had ratified it.

http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/100

[twotimer]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, and theater goers, shoppers, concert goers, kindergartners and coworkers.

And Thanos was right? Why the heck do you care? Generally I think you're a pretty cool guy, but you pooped all over your shoes with this one.

I was listening to Howard Stern about 30 years ago and he had one of Elvis Presley's bodyguards on. The guy told the story (apparently well know) about how when Priscilla divorced him and started dating Elvis's karate instructor, Elvis said to his "posse"..."I want him dead".

Well, it took about a week for these guys to find a legit hitman willing to do the job, but by that time, Elvis had calmed down and said "Forget it". He then said that if they had the killer quick, that karate dude would have been dead.

That's analogous to why we have the Three Day Waiting Period...which I think is probably a good idea. Gives a guy who walked in with the wife blowing the plumber time to chill. But he could just as well use a knife or a club?

The "Red Flag" laws might deny a few freaks their guns, but killings surely aren't going to stop. We can thank our liberal psycho media making sure the body count stays high...that's who I blame for this nonsense.

Trump will throw 'em a bone...that's all.

[dougrz]

I just wish we'd be honest and admit that it's a tradeoff we are willing to make. More guns = more freedom = more deaths.

But it doesn't. Juarez across the border from El Paso had 3000+ murders in 2016 vs El Paso's 17. With full on Mexican gun control. Violence is cultural.

I recall reading stats that showed subbing our minorities, the US murder rate is lower than Europe. Even with guns.

[dougrz]

Trump will throw 'em a bone...that's all.

If he does even a bone, I'll likely walk away. I will not accept being spit on by the corporate wing of the party. So the only unifying issue is corp tax cuts? Which I'm all for. But I care about immigration, the 2nd Am, and China trade as well. All of which the corp wing disagrees with me on. Half the coalition can't diss the other half when the serious chips are down and expect support for their cause anymore.

[oldno7]

Heres is a real cure for all of this

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[rockgremlin]

^^^BTW, there wasn't a "Big drop in mass shooting deaths" during the assault weapons ban. That is a myth that is perpetuated by uneducated libtards.

There, I said it...

[twotimer]

Heres is a real cure for all of this

I do this when I go on vacation...I don't pay attention to jack. However, after a few days I'll tire of music while I'm on the move and tune into NPR just to see what's going on.

I was on a road trip during the Kavanaugh thing...what a circus that was!

The problem with "just turning it off" is that if you invest, or are thinking of making moves like that, you must pay attention to what's going on...and then you're bombarded with the nonsense. Clicking it off is easier said than done.

[twotimer]

You're right Kurt...these "Red Flag" laws certainly are open for abuse. Once passed, that's it...and then when the Dems regain control they'll just expand on the already existing law. Those idiots did that with lead paint back in 2010...used the Chinese toy thing as an excuse.

Not familiar with the laws regarding lead paint on your house and what has to be done just to remodel? Everybody that owns a home built before 1978 got screwed. Better hope they don't find lead!

Seems reasonable though...considering these guys post up their intentions. I remember 5 or 6 years ago a black dude who was a teacher up at a school in Oregon?...he killed 6 or more people he had worked with. I think it was a hostage situation for a while?

Anyway, after it was all done the investigators discovered that he'd been posting about killing these people for a week on Facebook...but no one apparently saw it, because he literally had zero friends.

I won't abandon Trump if he throws them a bone...

[oldno7]

I'm open to someone being able to logically explain, how turning innocent citizens into criminals is something to strive for.

What if those who claim to represent "us", did that and not the criminals.

Somehow--the urge to do "something" equates to--lets just do the wrong thing...

[Iceaxe]

Red Flag laws are pure bullshit if they don't include due process.

If the laws do not include due process there is no doubt the Red Flag Laws will be misused.