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Thread: Cue the Anti-AR15 Crowd in 3, 2, 1.....

  1. #61
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    I don't know of any here in Utah that lock doors, check in yes but that's just normal parent stuff checking kids in and out. Inform me on the many schools that do lock doors all day.
    Come to Southern Utah, I can take you to them personally, my wife works at one.

    Of course we are more rural.

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  3. #62
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    I'll go upstairs and ask my Mom
    shouldn't she come down if you yell?

    seems silly to leave the computer.
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  4. #63
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Has there been a societal change since this?

    Scotts good with graphs, has there been an increase or decrease in mass shootings since this time?





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    On October 31, 1963, President John F. Kennedy signed into law the Community Mental Health Act (also known as the Mental Retardation and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act of 1963), which drastically altered the delivery of mental health services and inspired a new era of optimism in mental healthcare. This law led to the establishment of comprehensive community mental health centers throughout the country. It helped people with mental illnesses who were “warehoused” in hospitals and institutions move back into their communities.
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  5. #64
    OK, I have a serious question.

    To buy from a licensed dealer, why do you have to be 21 to buy a handgun, but only 18 to buy an AR-15?

    PS, I joined the military on my 17th birthday, so I'm not saying that teenagers shouldn't have weapons, but the current age law seems strange (to me at least).
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    I was focusing on mostly how they were confined, locking all schools seems like a budgetary nightmare anyway and un-American.
    How about at a very minimum all classrooms have a lock on the door that the teacher can lock from inside the classroom to keep intruders out if the need arises?

    Such a simple and cheap lock would have greatly reduced the number of victims in many of the school shootings.

    I've actually studied several of these school shootings in-depth. The students and faculty often take shelter in classrooms but have no way to bar or defend the door.

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    I was focusing on mostly how they were confined, locking all schools seems like a budgetary nightmare anyway and un-American.
    In my eyes, if we can afford for government offices to protect government workers, we can do it for children in schools. Even the Department of Transportation Offices near where I live and out in the middle of nowhere have locked doors where you have to be buzzed in.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    OK, I have a serious question.

    To buy from a licensed dealer, why do you have to be 21 to buy a handgun, but only 18 to buy an AR-15?
    An AR-15 is classified as a "long gun", vs a handgun. 18 to purchase long guns and 21 for handguns. That's federal law.

    However, it is not illegal for an 18 y/o to own or process a handgun, just to purchase one from an FFL dealer. If you gift your child a handgun you are legal under federal law.

    AR-15 is nothing more then your typical semi automatic rifle painted black. "AR-15" and "assault rifle" are mostly just terms tossed around in the media and gun control groups to try and scare the ignorant masses. The term "black rifle" is often how you will hear them described in the industry, but that's not nearly as scary.

  9. #68
    Scotts good with graphs, has there been an increase or decrease in mass shootings since this time?
    Mass shootings have increased, while overall murder rates have decreased. It will take a while to put a graph together though. That's a long time period.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  10. #69
    An AR-15 is classified as a "long gun", vs a handgun. 18 to purchase long guns and 21 for handguns. That's federal law.

    However, it is not illegal for an 18 y/o to own or process a handgun, just to purchase one from an FFL dealer. If you gift your child a handgun you are legal under federal law.
    Yes, I already know all that. I was asking why the law was written like that.

    I'm guessing that the reason I can think of is that most hunting weapons are long guns, but if that was the only intention, they should have just classified weapons as hunting rifles or something.

    The age difference between owning a AR-15, classified as a long gun, and buying a handgun (from a licensed dealer) doesn't make that much sense to me. If laws are going to be defined by age of ownership, it seems silly (to me at least) to classify all rifles and guns as simply hand guns or long rifles. It seems strange to me that an 18 year old can by an AR-15 from a dealer, but not a handgun.

    AR-15 is nothing more then your typical semi automatic rifle painted black. "AR-15" and "assault rifle" are mostly just terms tossed around in the media and gun control groups to try and scare the ignorant masses. The term "black rifle" is often how you will hear them described in the industry, but that's not nearly as scary.
    Technically the AR-15 was designed to be an assault rifle (for military use).

    PS, I already know that AR does not stand for "assault rifle". The history of the AR-15 (which I assume you already know) is quite interesting, for those interested in history.

    I remember is basic how the Sargent teaching BRM would go on and on about how the military erred in us using M16's instead of AR-15's.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  11. #70
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Mass shootings have increased, while overall murder rates have decreased. It will take a while to put a graph together though. That's a long time period.
    So, gun ownership is up, murder rates are down and mass shootings are up.

    Somewhere along that timeline is the answer.

    What has changed?

    When I was in high school, in Bountiful, we brought guns to school in our vehicles, some proudly displayed.

    Guns were freely brought into school, especially a shop class.

    Don't recall a lot of mass shootings in the 70's.

    Was the Ogden HI-FI murder, jabbed pens in ears,raped teenager, later shot in head, victims made to drink drano
    I'm not Spartacus


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    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

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  12. #71
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post

    I'm guessing that the reason I can think of is that most hunting weapons are long guns, but if that was the only intention, they should have just classified weapons as hunting rifles or something.
    .
    The 2nd amendment as you know, does not state "you have the right to keep and shoot bears", it was never even considered about hunting and is only put into a hunting context by those hell bent on eliminating it.

    The AR is a very accurate,easy to carry, low recoiling rifle, they are used for many things and hunting is one of those.

    There is no need to classify it as anything but a semi automatic rifle, which can be purchased at 18yrs old.
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  13. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    The age difference between owning a AR-15, classified as a long gun, and buying a handgun (from a licensed dealer) doesn't make that much sense to me.
    You didn't read the rest of my post or you would already know the answer to this.

    There is basicly no way to restrict black rifles without restricting all semi auto rifles.

  14. #73
    So, gun ownership is up, murder rates are down and mass shootings are up.
    Gun ownership has been pretty steady for several decades, at least by percentage of the population.

    Don't recall a lot of mass shootings in the 70's.
    There weren't many mass shootings then, but murder rates were much higher then.

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    Here is one graph from Mass Shootings from the Washington Post, though I haven't gone through and checked everything (just in case anyone doesn't trust the WP). I already created one last year, but only back as far as 1984. I did check everything on that one and invited corrections.

    Washington Post:

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...gs-in-america/

    Mine:

    Name:  shoot1.JPG
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    If there are any errors in either, feel free to correct.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  15. #74
    The 2nd amendment as you know, does not state "you have the right to keep and shoot bears", it was never even considered about hunting and is only put into a hunting context by those hell bent on eliminating it.

    The AR is a very accurate,easy to carry, low recoiling rifle, they are used for many things and hunting is one of those.

    There is no need to classify it as anything but a semi automatic rifle, which can be purchased at 18yrs old.

    ----

    You didn't read the rest of my post or you would already know the answer to this.

    There is basicly no way to restrict black rifles without restricting all semi auto rifles.
    Shane I did read your answer. I still think the age discrepancy is strange.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let me rephrase the question. Why do you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun (at least from a dealer)?
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  16. #75
    In other news today:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/grandmoth...152359140.html

    A woman prevented a potential tragedy this week when she reported her 18-year-old grandson to police after learning of his plot to carry out a mass shooting at his high school.

    Everett police in Washington state arrested 18-year-old Joshua Alexander O'Connor at ACES High School on Tuesday, on suspicion of attempted murder. The arrest was made after O'Connor's grandmother called 911 and turned in a notebook where he had detailed plans to use homemade explosives and shoot students at his school.

    "I need to make this count," O’Connor reportedly wrote in the journal. "I’ve been reviewing many mass shootings/bombings (and attempted bombings) I’m learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes."

    O'Connor also reportedly noted that he wanted the death count to be high so he would be infamous. Court papers also detail that his discovered notebook included instructions about making pressure-cooker bombs and grenades.

    "We are really grateful to the grandmother. It couldn’t have been easy for her to do," Mukilteo School District spokesman Andy Muntz said. "It speaks to the importance of the saying, 'if you hear something or see something, call authorities,' and that’s what she did. It's quite possible she saved many lives including her grandson's."

    According to Snohomish County Jail records, O'Connor's bail has been set at $5 million.


    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  17. #76
    Mass shootings have increased, while overall murder rates have decreased
    Looking through the data, I should revise my statement to Mass shooting deaths have increased, while overall murder rates have decreased.

    Mass shootings have increased since the 1960's, but not as nearly as much as the amount of deaths. Although the original statement is true, what has increased greatly is the number of people killed in the shootings.

    Since crime stats have been kept, up to the 1960's, the deadliest public mass shooting was the Clock Tower Shooting (Austin Texas) on 8/1/1966 where 18 people were killed.

    This wasn't eclipsed until 7/18/1994 at the McDonalds (San Ysidro) California shooting where 22 people were killed.

    This was eclipsed again on 10/16/1991 at Luby's Restaurant (Killeen Texas) where 24 people were killed.

    This was again eclipsed again on 4/16/2007 when the Virginia Tech shooting killed 33 people.

    This was eclipsed again on 6/12/2016 at the Pulse Night Club (Orlando) shooting where 50 people were killed.

    This was eclipsed again on 10/1/2017 where the Route 91 Harvest (Las Vegas) shooting took place where 59 were killed (and 422 injured).

    So, mass shootings are becoming more deadly.






    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  18. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    So, gun ownership is up, murder rates are down and mass shootings are up.

    When I was in high school, in Bountiful, we brought guns to school in our vehicles, some proudly displayed.

    Guns were freely brought into school, especially a shop class.

    Don't recall a lot of mass shootings in the 70's.
    I think the difference was "the family" - mother, father raising the kid(s). Dirk, put me down for fix the family = fix society.

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  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    Oh yeah, I'll stand by that all day long.

    I remember reading that you have kids? Well, since I'm assuming that you're mocking my assertion, I've got a few suggestions for you...

    Perhaps sit down with the youngsters and watch the original "Robocop". There's this really cool scene where four thugs pump about 150 bullets into his body as he's up against a wall. The finale being a point blank shot to the forehead.

    After that, check out "Dredd" with Karl Urban. We get to see bodies splatting on the cement after being thrown off a 500 ft. building...in slow motion! Awesome carnage!

    Top off the evening by playing that version of Grand Theft Auto where you get bonus points for killing the whore after you've raped her.

    Of course, I understand that opinions of reality vary greatly, but I personally think this shit has an effect on some...especially young men that are fuc*ed up in the head to begin with.

    More psychiatric professionals waiting for these dudes to walk in the door...yeah, that'll do the trick!
    I've always found it strange how many people have no problems taking their young kids to movies with intense violence, but wouldn't allow them in if there is too much cursing, or god forbid a boobie.

  20. #79
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    I think the difference was "the family" - mother, father raising the kid(s). Dirk, put me down for fix the family = fix society.

    https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/...rise-worldwide

    http://www.marripedia.org/effects_of...society#fnt__6
    Or how about family not afraid to discipline a child?

    I think we need to figure a way out of that rabbit hole.
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  21. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    So, mass shootings are becoming more deadly.
    One item you will find in common with most these mass shootings is that the killers studied previous events in great detail.

    The media reports every nuance including what saved lives and what cost lives. So it's of little surprise mass shootings are becoming more deadly as the killers were schooled by those who came before them.


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