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Thread: Cue the Anti-AR15 Crowd in 3, 2, 1.....

  1. #21
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Even the ACLU sided with Trump on that "regulation".

    It was/is about due process and the 4th Amendment.

    You liberals are slipping,again.

    A year ago, Congress and Trump eliminated a proposed rule that would have included in the federal government gun background database people who received disability payments from Social Security and received assistance to manage their benefits due to mental impairments.
    This is a regulation that potentially deprived between 75,000 to 80,000 people of a right based not on what they had done but on the basis of being classified by the government in a certain way. The fact that these people may have these impairments did not inherently mean that they were dangerous to themselves or others and needed to be kept away from guns.
    As I noted when the regulation was repealed last March, this rule violated not just the Second Amendment but the Fourth, because it deprived the affected people of a right without due process. The government does have the power to restrict and even deny gun ownership to people, but it has to show that these people have engaged in behavior that makes weapons dangerous in their hands.
    That's why the regulation was opposed not just by National Rifle Association (NRA) but by several mental health and disability groups and by the American Civil Liberties Union. Pundits largely ignored the latter groups' opposition to the rule, preferring to play up the power of the NRA and their influence on Republicans to turn the issue into a partisan fight.
    It was hackery then, and it is still hackery today. It's shameful to ignore the serious constitutional problems of this poorly conceived rule just to sow panic and implicate one's political opponents.
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

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    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

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  3. #22
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    Okay, I'll keep a running tally

    Trump = Mental Illness

    IceAxe = Opiates/Drugs + Enforcing existing laws and go after illegal gun purchasers
    TwoTimer = The media is to blame, possibly put mental health kiosks in every Starbucks
    dirk=I stay in my mom's dark basement and post shit on the internet, it's safe down here from all the poopy heads.

    ...
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  4. Likes BruteForce liked this post
  5. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    dirk=I stay in my mom's dark basement and post shit on the internet, it's safe down here from all the poopy heads.

    So you're holding it against me that I don't post a dozen memes per day?

  6. #24
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    So you're holding it against me that I don't post a dozen memes per day?
    whoaa, I thought that was your quote

    I have no intention of ever holding anything against you...
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  7. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    Okay, I'll keep a running tally

    Trump = Mental Illness

    IceAxe = Opiates/Drugs + Enforcing existing laws and go after illegal gun purchasers
    TwoTimer = The media is to blame, possibly put mental health kiosks in every Starbucks
    I think you need to fix mine as I stated "psychotropic drugs". Which can simply be classified as being treated for mental illness by way of medication.

    FWIW - here is a list of psychotropic drugs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ic_medications

    Also "go after illegal gun purchasers" is handled under "Enforcing existing laws", no need to complicate things

    So bottomline, this is the starting point...

    IceAxe = Fix Mental health + Enforcing existing laws

    And under fixing the mental health system should be revising HIPAA so doctors can legally report those who they feel threaten the public safety. As it currently stands you might be a potential mass murderer but your doc can't have you entered in the FBI firearm background check because of HIPAA.

  8. #26

  9. #27
    And a little more FYI.... 82% of mass shootings were commited with a illegally obtained weapon. Which is why we first need to enforce existing laws.

  10. #28
    Updated

    Trump = Mental Illness

    IceAxe = Fix Mental health + Enforcing existing laws (I agree with that HIPAA thought)
    TwoTimer = The media is to blame, possibly put mental health kiosks in every Starbucks
    oldno7 = Liberals are slipping

  11. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    Barry tried, but...uhh, he got shot down...

    http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-...ental-illness/
    You almost got it right.... If you read what was posted above we wouldn't be having this talk a second time.

    A year ago, Congress and Trump eliminated a proposed rule that would have included in the federal government gun background database people who received disability payments from Social Security and received assistance to manage their benefits due to mental impairments.
    This is a regulation that potentially deprived between 75,000 to 80,000 people of a right based not on what they had done but on the basis of being classified by the government in a certain way. The fact that these people may have these impairments did not inherently mean that they were dangerous to themselves or others and needed to be kept away from guns.
    As I noted when the regulation was repealed last March, this rule violated not just the Second Amendment but the Fourth, because it deprived the affected people of a right without due process. The government does have the power to restrict and even deny gun ownership to people, but it has to show that these people have engaged in behavior that makes weapons dangerous in their hands.
    That's why the regulation was opposed not just by National Rifle Association (NRA) but by several mental health and disability groups and by the American Civil Liberties Union. Pundits largely ignored the latter groups' opposition to the rule, preferring to play up the power of the NRA and their influence on Republicans to turn the issue into a partisan fight.
    It was hackery then, and it is still hackery today. It's shameful to ignore the serious constitutional problems of this poorly conceived rule just to sow panic and implicate one's political opponents.

  12. #30
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    Barry tried, but...uhh, he got shot down...

    http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/trump-...ental-illness/
    Read post #21 and maybe you can gain some insite into your, terminal ignorance...
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  13. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    Okay, I'll keep a running tally


    TwoTimer = The media is to blame

    Oh yeah, I'll stand by that all day long.

    I remember reading that you have kids? Well, since I'm assuming that you're mocking my assertion, I've got a few suggestions for you...

    Perhaps sit down with the youngsters and watch the original "Robocop". There's this really cool scene where four thugs pump about 150 bullets into his body as he's up against a wall. The finale being a point blank shot to the forehead.

    After that, check out "Dredd" with Karl Urban. We get to see bodies splatting on the cement after being thrown off a 500 ft. building...in slow motion! Awesome carnage!

    Top off the evening by playing that version of Grand Theft Auto where you get bonus points for killing the whore after you've raped her.

    Of course, I understand that opinions of reality vary greatly, but I personally think this shit has an effect on some...especially young men that are fuc*ed up in the head to begin with.

    More psychiatric professionals waiting for these dudes to walk in the door...yeah, that'll do the trick!
    Everything
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  14. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    Well, since I'm assuming that you're mocking my assertion, I've got a few suggestions for you...

    Perhaps sit down with the youngsters and watch the original "Robocop". There's this really cool scene where four thugs pump about 150 bullets into his body as he's up against a wall. The finale being a point blank shot to the forehead.

    After that, check out "Dredd" with Karl Urban. We get to see bodies splatting on the cement after being thrown off a 500 ft. building...in slow motion! Awesome carnage!

    Top off the evening by playing that version of Grand Theft Auto where you get bonus points for killing the whore after you've raped her.
    Naw, I'm not mocking I just would like to know what the root cause of this would be if inordinate gun proliferation is not the cause. That was my question, you answered and I respect that.

    I don't like sensationalizing of killing just like any parent. Thing is, I've lived outside the US when I was younger, as a teen and people were wild over those kinds of movies but mass shooting sprees just never happened on the scale that happens here. Near as I could tell everyone loved them as much as people in the US, media is, you know Global. How does anyone explain David Hassellhoff being a megastar in Asia?

    We do all watch Zombieland every 6 months or so... Double Tap!

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  16. #33
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkHammergate View Post
    Updated

    Trump = Mental Illness

    IceAxe = Fix Mental health + Enforcing existing laws (I agree with that HIPAA thought)
    TwoTimer = The media is to blame, possibly put mental health kiosks in every Starbucks
    oldno7 = Liberals are ignorant and refuse to address real issues
    dirk=mom will save me, her basement is a bomb shelter
    ,,
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  17. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    ,,
    Strugglin' there Buddy?

  18. #35
    IceAxe = Fix Mental health + Enforcing existing laws
    I agree, but how do you propose we fix the former? A lot of the mentally ill can't afford decent healthcare. Aren't you against providing health care for anyone that can't afford it (serious question). Counseling for the mentally ill is incredibly expensive.

    As to the latter, yes existing laws aren't being enforced. How do you propose we enforce them? Politicians on both sides keep saying that we should enforce existing gun laws, but it seems like lip service because it seldom happens.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  19. #36
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    How about we make all schools safe by locking all doors after the morning bell.

    If you want in you have to be buzzed in at a security door by administration.

    Same with exiting, if a student want to leave, there is one door, controlled by administrators, allowing exit.

    Thinking out loud, looking for solutions.

    question, dirk.

    if a guy gets in a car drunk and kills a pedestrian, what should happen?
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  20. #37
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    If any doors are breached during school hours--all classroom doors close and lock automatically.
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  21. #38
    How about we make all schools safe by locking all doors after the morning bell.

    If you want in you have to be buzzed in at a security door by administration.

    Same with exiting, if a student want to leave, there is one door, controlled by administrators, allowing exit.

    Thinking out loud, looking for solutions.
    That's how the schools are where I live and we live in a small town. It still wouldn't stop a student in the school from attacking though.

    Recently, the principal here requires all students to have see through backpacks, which is supposed to stop this kind of thing (one kid did bring a gun to school and was caught before the rule). It could help, but manufacturers need to come up with more comfortable see through backpacks.

    See through backpacks and bags do seem like a good idea.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  22. #39
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    That's how the schools are where I live and we live in a small town. It still wouldn't stop a student in the school from attacking though.

    Recently, the principal here requires all students to have see through backpacks, which is supposed to stop this kind of thing (one kid did bring a gun to school and was caught before the rule). It could help, but manufacturers need to come up with more comfortable see through backpacks.

    See through backpacks and bags do seem like a good idea.
    So, this problem is solvable by using ordinary measures?

    Or at least reduced greatly?

    The schools here are the same but lots of exceptions are allowed.(secure doors)
    I'm not Spartacus


    Boycotting imlay canyon gear because I value access

    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  23. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    How about we make all schools safe by locking all doors after the morning bell.

    If you want in you have to be buzzed in at a security door by administration.

    Same with exiting, if a student want to leave, there is one door, controlled by administrators, allowing exit.

    Thinking out loud, looking for solutions.
    Seems Orwellian

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