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Thread: LDS Church cuts Varsity and Venture programs in 2018

  1. #1

    LDS Church cuts Varsity and Venture programs in 2018

    I wonder how this will affect approval for the older age groups wanting to do high adventure activities like climbing and canyoneering.

    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=442...nture-scouting


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  3. #2
    I'm sure they've taken all that into consideration. From my perspective I'm not surprised and I'm sure this has been in the works for a few years. The head of the local BSA council said on KSL this morning that the BSA's program for the 14-18 year olds has never really taken off with the church. Last time I was in Young Men's a few years ago, we used our own program we found online, doing our own thing, and never used anything BSA for our 14-18 year olds.
    Are we there yet?

  4. #3
    Keep in mind, KSL.com is getting them clicks, they'll structure the story in a way that enrages the average reader, making it sound like the LDS Church doesn't care about boys 14-18 years old.

    The Scouting program is just a section of the Young Men criteria, and they wouldn't walk away from the Boy Scout program without a replacement, which will be "in house".

    I guess now people won't be able to get mad at Mormons anymore when they see Boy Scouts vandalizing the canyon walls, and that will be a huge bummer.

  5. #4
    Keep in mind, KSL.com is getting them clicks, they'll structure the story in a way that enrages the average reader, making it sound like the LDS Church doesn't care about boys 14-18 years old.
    KSL is 100% owned by the LDS Church.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  6. Likes DiscGo liked this post
  7. #5
    But who is going to burn down the Uintas now? :)

  8. Likes DiscGo, dakotabelliston, qedcook liked this post
  9. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    Keep in mind, KSL.com is getting them clicks, they'll structure the story in a way that enrages the average reader, making it sound like the LDS Church doesn't care about boys 14-18 years old.

    The Scouting program is just a section of the Young Men criteria, and they wouldn't walk away from the Boy Scout program without a replacement, which will be "in house".

    I guess now people won't be able to get mad at Mormons anymore when they see Boy Scouts vandalizing the canyon walls, and that will be a huge bummer.
    In those people's defense, what is the % of boy scout troops in Utah sponsored by the Mormon church? I would guess over 90%.

  10. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post
    But who is going to burn down the Uintas now? :)
    That's hilarious!!!!

  11. #8
    Wonder how this relates to the drop in retention in the church?

    Thoughts?

  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    Wonder how this relates to the drop in retention in the church?

    Thoughts?
    Unrelated. The LDS Church has been working on a plan to transition into a more church specific youth program for quite a while. The main reason being that Boy Scouts are supposed to be multi-denominational until of based on LDS specific doctrine. Therefore in Boy Scouts they can't teach LDS themed and LDS specific Doctrines. With the transition, emphasis is going to be more on Priesthood and Mission preparation. Several of us were told that it was going to happen, we just didn't know exactly when.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  13. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Therefore in Boy Scouts they can't teach LDS themed and LDS specific Doctrines. With the transition, emphasis is going to be more on Priesthood and Mission preparation. Several of us were told that it was going to happen, we just didn't know exactly when.
    Exactly...so...cause and effect?

    Lowering the missionary age and distancing from the Scouts might be an intended cause and hopeful effect on retention of especially younger members?

    Outside looking in, seems part of a strategy.

    I don't doubt for a second that these types of changes are very well thought out.

    Be interesting to see the results.

  14. #11
    and distancing from the Scouts might be an intended cause and hopeful effect on retention of especially younger members?
    It's more than that. The LDS Church wants a more customized program. Plus, there are more LDS members outside the United States than in the United States and the BSA is only for youth in the United States.

    The BSA's decision to accept gay leaders and the BSA's recent announcement of consideration of admitting girls are factors as well.

    Although it hasn't been mentioned yet, undoubtedly the financial cost of the scouting program is also a factor.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  15. #12
    Lotta clickbait out there on several new outlets. "Boy Scouts getting dropped by LDS Church..."
    Flame wars ensue and comments fly on social media.


  16. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post
    But who is going to burn down the Uintas now? :)
    Don't worry. They are still supporting the Boy Scouts. There are plenty of 12 and 13 year olds capable of taking care of this problem.

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  18. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    Exactly...so...cause and effect?

    Lowering the missionary age and distancing from the Scouts might be an intended cause and hopeful effect on retention of especially younger members?

    Outside looking in, seems part of a strategy.

    I don't doubt for a second that these types of changes are very well thought out.

    Be interesting to see the results.
    I think this is absolutely correct. Just look at the effect that lowering the mission age had on the number of missionaries out there. The numbers were pretty stagnant for years at right around 40,000-45,000 or so until they changed that. Overnight almost that number jumped to over 60,000.

    I've wondered for a long time why they spend so much time with the young women talking about spirituality and gospel topics while that is pretty much ignored in the young men program except on Sundays. I would think that this might just be part of the retention problems we are having with the young folks today also.

    And yes, it's all very planned out. I'm sure of that.

  19. #15
    I also wonder how this change will affect the BSA high adventure bases like the Grand Tetons. Can a group thats not registered with the BSA even go. If not thats going to drop their revenue and they may have to make some changes to survive. I sure loved going to that base as a youth!

  20. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    KSL is 100% owned by the LDS Church.
    Correct, and I'm a writer for them and I know they still want them clicks. They could have titled it "Boy Scouts program getting replaced with...." but if they just title it that the LDS Church is dropping Boy Scouts, people will click.

    That, in itself can seem a little unethical, and I'm not certain how much involved the Church is with the operations of KSL and KSL.com, but there are plenty of non LDS folks there too, and I assume they've got some decent room to operate per their own discretion. I'm not sure though.

  21. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by devo_stevo View Post
    Just look at the effect that lowering the mission age had on the number of missionaries out there. The numbers were pretty stagnant for years at right around 40,000-45,000 or so until they changed that. Overnight almost that number jumped to over 60,000.
    The numbers grew only temporarily because they had 19-21 year olds now combined with 18 year olds, but this number will drop back down close to the prior average once the majority of 20-21- year olds come home, and then it will just be 18-20 year olds out on missions.

  22. Likes Scott P liked this post
  23. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    The numbers grew only temporarily because they had 19-21 year olds now combined with 18 year olds, but this number will drop back down close to the prior average once the majority of 20-21- year olds come home, and then it will just be 18-20 year olds out on missions.
    I hadn't thought of that, but I'm sure it's a big part of the increase. I do think that the average will still be higher than before. I know a lot of young folks that went off the college the first year and came back with a different outlook on life and things. Many of which had plans to go on missions, but didn't.

  24. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by devo_stevo View Post
    I hadn't thought of that, but I'm sure it's a big part of the increase. I do think that the average will still be higher than before. I know a lot of young folks that went off the college the first year and came back with a different outlook on life and things. Many of which had plans to go on missions, but didn't.
    I think that the average will stay a little higher because they are getting a lot more sisters out than before. A lot of the seemed to go because they were finishing college with no good prospects in sight.

  25. #20
    When the Boy Scouts of America starts admitting girls, the LDS Church will drop scouting. Mark my words.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-girls-n754541


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