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Thread: Confederate Statues removed in New Orleans

  1. #141

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  3. #142
    "Don’t be sidetracked by the trendy debate over statues. Statuary is complicated. It is erected as much to signal the sentiments of the commissioners as to honor noteworthy lives. And it is built to last, so it stands even when sentiments change.

    A great deal of Confederate iconography was not commissioned in remembrance of soldierly valor or mawkish depiction of genteel Dixie. It was crafted in defiant 20th-century resistance to the extension of equal rights, dignity, and opportunity to black people. Trump’s ill-informed meanderings about “culture” aside, many people taking offense at the statues have every reason to feel offended because, taken all in all, the reasons why they stand are at least as offensive as the images they convey.

    Maybe if we grasp that, instead of getting hysterical over it, we can see why the loss of Robert E. Lee shouldn’t threaten Thomas Jefferson. The disappearance of an honorable soldier in a dishonorable cause is not a slippery-slope rationale for casting out the founder who grafted onto America’s soul the conceit that we are all created equal — a solemn declaration of far more enduring consequence than its author’s flaws. Pegging it at 4,500 probably exaggerates the number of Saxon pagans beheaded by Charles the Great at Verden, but to call the episode an atrocity is no exaggeration. Nor, however, has Charlemagne’s ruthlessness in battle been adjudged reason to remove his famous statue from the cathedral entrance at Notre Dame de Paris. Without him, there might have been no Europe, no Western culture as we know it, no development of the university, no magnificent cathedrals still standing.

    It is a matter of perspective, of understanding changing times and our flawed nature. We can demand that our history not be erased and still realize that some of it is better recounted in book form than in stone or alloy. It should be left to the people most affected by evocative statuary to make that call."


    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...th-sides-wrong

  4. #143

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  6. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I still can't believe Trump had the balls to toss a black family out of that Federally funded housing project, what an ass.

    /Sarcasm
    I don't know about Michelle Obama, but her husband is half-white. Does half-white make him "black"? How many of you are "pure white" (whatever that means), and more to the point: how much of a tar brush does one have to be touched by to be "non-white"?

    (and yes, I note your sarcasm)

  7. #145
    The "one drop rule" was established in the antebellum years to answer your question, but the short answer is Obama is black under the rule. You can read about it here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-...le?wprov=sfla1

  8. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by savanna3313 View Post


    I stated before that I really don't concern myself with these statues very much and that the here and now in regards to my personal prejudice is really all that matters, but this post is damn powerful. How could anyone in their right mind argue against it?

    Charles Barkley (love that guy) just said this whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. He said blacks (generally) don't even think about these things, and that the black community has bigger fish to fry...I certainly agree with that.

    It seems to me that if the so called "race war" that the left so pines for ever happens, it'll be white people vs. white people. Sniveling liberal hipster sissies against everyone else. I can guess who's ass will get kicked.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  9. #147
    Charles Barkley always provides valuable and accurate insight... the sad part is if a white guy said half the shit Charles says all hell would break loose... talk about racism...

  10. #148
    One thing I have to say that race and religion are probably the two stupidest reasons to go to war over or to fight over. Unlike religion though, no one has control over what race a person is born with (Michael Jackson gets a "C" for effort though) so it is incredibly stupid to try and judge someone for that (applicable to all races, whites are not the only ones who can be racists).

    The second thing is, how many people are actually participating in these violent protests, especially by percentage of the population?

    As far as I can find, the biggest rally, protest, or counter protest has attracted up to 40,000 people. That is indeed a big protest, but 40,000 people is still only 0.0001 of the population. Yet people are acting like the whole nation is at war and burning the nation down. No wonder the rest of the developed world considers us to be uncivilized.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  11. #149
    The general population has a hard time caring about all these bullshit topics that pass as news these days.... confederate statues, gay marriage, bathroom bills, Russian unicorns, etc. I blame social media for part of this.

    This is also why the 2018 mid-terms will be a blood bath for Democrats/liberals. This statue bullshit creates a visual image of our country being torn apart that will not play well for the left going forward.

    If I thought removing statues would actually help things I would say go for it.... But all that is really going to happen is a bunch of angry liberals going after paintings, statues, books, freedom of speach, slave owning founding fathers... you get the idea....

    #bookmarked

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  13. #150
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  14. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    I stated before that I really don't concern myself with these statues very much and that the here and now in regards to my personal prejudice is really all that matters, but this post is damn powerful. How could anyone in their right mind argue against it?

    Charles Barkley (love that guy) just said this whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. He said blacks (generally) don't even think about these things, and that the black community has bigger fish to fry...I certainly agree with that.

    It seems to me that if the so called "race war" that the left so pines for ever happens, it'll be white people vs. white people. Sniveling liberal hipster sissies against everyone else. I can guess who's ass will get kicked.
    If you apply Orwell's quote (from a book of friction) to what happened in the South after the civil war, with regard to erecting statues, changing voting laws to suppress part of the population, the rewriting of the slave history, then, the quote works. To apply it to a statue erected to perpetuate a myth, to support white supremacy, to white wash history, then, it works if you consider the history and purpose of these statues from their beginning. So, yeah, depends on your POV.

    http://www.teachushistory.org/americ...tue-george-iii

    IMHO, the "left" isn't pining for a race war. The "left" doesn't consider all white people racist. Playing the victim card is another propaganda ploy to distract you from the alt-right white nationalistic agenda. It fully supports their mission.

    Bannon: “The Democrats,” he told the American Prospect’s Bob Kuttner, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”

    And, if the left isn't focused on racism, then, out come all the memes saying they are. The source? Not a liberal.

    Interesting article:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...dentity-racism

    To prevent another loss in the 2018 midterms (and in Utah in the race for the open House seat), there has to be a message that resonates besides "we're not them". Democratic party has to bring something to the, uhh, party. Besides Russia and race.

    The statue thing is an interesting distraction. The message of folks at Charlottesville there purportedly in support of the statue never had any narrative with regard to said statue. But, their ideology represented how the statue got paid for, built, erected and dedicated those long years ago. They really are a reflection on what the statue has stood for all these years.

  15. #152
    Good link Brian, about that statue of the King. I remember hearing about that when I was a kid, thinking it was so ironic that they made bullets out of it.

    I disagree with the Vox one, though. I won't bother going into why except to say that I really don't think that Trump is a racist.

    On the first page of this thread, I declared my love for the movie "Gone With The Wind". Some pundit over at CNN wants it banned.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  16. #153

  17. #154
    This movement was not started by the African Americans, it was started by privileged rich white liberal college kids.

  18. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    This movement was not started by the African Americans, it was started by privileged rich white liberal college kids.
    When I think of a privileged white kid who started this movement...this is who I think of:

    Name:  dylann-roof-splc_1.jpg
Views: 172
Size:  39.6 KB

  19. #156
    ^^^THIS^^^

    Dylann Roof is without doubt the person most responsible for the current hysteria to remove all things Confederate.

  20. #157
    Resident Southern Belle savanna3313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    When I think of a privileged white kid who started this movement...this is who I think of:

    Name:  dylann-roof-splc_1.jpg
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  21. #158
    Maybe this was already posted but, I read this Tweet last week after one of the Confederate statues was pulled down. This about sums it up for me.

    Name:  Never Slaves.PNG
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Size:  27.7 KB
    Are we there yet?

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  23. #159
    If I went on a shooting rampage I'd dress like this....... that would confuse the hell out of them...






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  25. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by tallsteve View Post
    Maybe this was already posted but, I read this Tweet last week after one of the Confederate statues was pulled down. This about sums it up for me.

    Name:  Never Slaves.PNG
Views: 187
Size:  27.7 KB
    Best post ever.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

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