Mayor rescinds offer to place homeless shelter in Draper after push-back from residents

[oldno7]

I just wrote out a yuge check for taxes, so worthless, dependent people like you can survive, we're getting tired of paying for your blood sucking,

[Brian in SLC]

Says the gay/anti gun/baby killer progressive.

yea, you have a big mouth and no heart, it's all good.

Project much?

http://changingminds.org/explanation...projection.htm

[Brian in SLC]

I just wrote out a yuge check for taxes, so worthless, dependent people like you can survive, we're getting tired of paying for your blood sucking,

Now you're not making sense. Trump says he was smart for not paying taxes. What's that make you?

How does you foolishly paying taxes help blood sucking dependents? You gonna fund some program to teach folks how to fish? Oh, that's a liberal entitlement. So, you're willing to just perpetuate getting your blood sucked? That doesn't sound that smart to me.

I guess that's what happens when small minded conservative don't have a plan...(like, "repeal and replace").

Big talk, no action, no change for the better.

4 more years...4 more years....!

[oldno7]

As long as theres losers like you in dead end government, entitled, can't be fired, jobs, us taxpayers will pay our fair share--until Trump cancels your contract

[rockgremlin]

Gettin' spicy in here...

[accadacca]

[tallsteve]

6 APRIL 2017 - SALT LAKE CITY

Responding to the Needs of the Homeless in Our Communities


The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has authorized the release of the following statement:
Homelessness is a tragic condition that afflicts individuals and even families in many places, including Utah. The causes are varied, and solutions are often difficult, but whether homelessness stems from conflict, poverty, mental illness, addiction or other sources, our response to those in need defines us as individuals and communities.
We are grateful for the willingness of government, community and civic leaders to tackle this issue. We applaud their continuing efforts to find solutions that will not only relieve the suffering inherent in homelessness but also implement measures that will help homeless individuals become self-reliant and deal with criminal elements that prey on the homeless.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feels keenly a responsibility to help in a Christlike way and has participated in efforts to address homelessness for many years, particularly in the Salt Lake Valley. Our farms and facilities provide food, clothing and resources. We have partnered with government, relief organizations, community groups and other faiths to care for those in need and to help address the underlying causes of homelessness.
Over the last decade, the Church has donated cash and commodities totaling more than $42 million to eight community and religious organizations that serve the homeless in Salt Lake City. There are dozens of partners that draw upon the Church’s food reserves at bishops’ storehouses on a monthly basis. In addition, the Church offers counseling services, employment training, job placement and personal ministering to the homeless. To support the current efforts of city and county officials, the Church earlier agreed to sell its Deseret Industries facility at 130 East 700 South to Salt Lake City for use as one of three or four planned homeless resource centers. In addition, we are in active discussions with community partners to identify where the greatest needs exist and how the Church may offer additional help.
The Church’s institutional response is made possible by the ongoing generous humanitarian and other contributions of Church members. In addition, many members do what they can as individuals and families to support community efforts designed to assist the homeless, for which we express our gratitude.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...ss-communities

[rockgremlin]

^^^^ This. This right here is GOLD!! LOL!!!

[Scott P]

aaaaa

[Scott P]

6 APRIL 2017 - SALT LAKE CITY

Responding to the Needs of the Homeless in Our Communities


The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has authorized the release of the following statement:
Homelessness is a tragic condition that afflicts individuals and even families in many places, including Utah. The causes are varied, and solutions are often difficult, but whether homelessness stems from conflict, poverty, mental illness, addiction or other sources, our response to those in need defines us as individuals and communities.
We are grateful for the willingness of government, community and civic leaders to tackle this issue. We applaud their continuing efforts to find solutions that will not only relieve the suffering inherent in homelessness but also implement measures that will help homeless individuals become self-reliant and deal with criminal elements that prey on the homeless.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feels keenly a responsibility to help in a Christlike way and has participated in efforts to address homelessness for many years, particularly in the Salt Lake Valley. Our farms and facilities provide food, clothing and resources. We have partnered with government, relief organizations, community groups and other faiths to care for those in need and to help address the underlying causes of homelessness.
Over the last decade, the Church has donated cash and commodities totaling more than $42 million to eight community and religious organizations that serve the homeless in Salt Lake City. There are dozens of partners that draw upon the Church’s food reserves at bishops’ storehouses on a monthly basis. In addition, the Church offers counseling services, employment training, job placement and personal ministering to the homeless. To support the current efforts of city and county officials, the Church earlier agreed to sell its Deseret Industries facility at 130 East 700 South to Salt Lake City for use as one of three or four planned homeless resource centers. In addition, we are in active discussions with community partners to identify where the greatest needs exist and how the Church may offer additional help.
The Church’s institutional response is made possible by the ongoing generous humanitarian and other contributions of Church members. In addition, many members do what they can as individuals and families to support community efforts designed to assist the homeless, for which we express our gratitude.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...ss-communities

I guess I never understood why the above is what is being taught in church and the many of the same people that go to the same church and profess 100% belief in it are the first ones to light the torches against the poor and homeless.

Liberal/progressives are who make homeless people, it's the dependency thing.(entitlement)

I strongly agree with you in that people should try to get off public assistance whenever possible and that government handouts can and do create dependence. I guess that's the conservative side of me.

Many conservative groups, especially churches also encourage welfare situations though. They do this by saying that people should have as many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not. The (very conservative) church I belong to also does this, but they don't hammer on it quite as hard in the last few years. This also creates a lot of welfare problems, especially among the young. If even unemployed college students are encouraged to have as many children as possible, there will be welfare.

Anyway, I said it earlier in the thread, but I think we should bring back the CCC.

The CCC was a welfare program during the depression where jobs were provided for people that couldn't find other jobs. The jobs paid enough so that the families wouldn't go hungry, but intentionally paid less than the private market so there was an incentive for people to get off them as soon as possible.

Many people do need help, but many (most) people on welfare are capable of working more. We should bring back a welfare system where help is provided, but that people still have to work for it.

I just wrote out a yuge check for taxes

Me too, but according to the federal pie chart most of it went to military, social security, and medical spending. Since social security really isn't an entitlement since it was paid into, it seems like the biggest entitled groups are the ones who supported the Iraq War and other lose-lose wars that have nothing to do with freedom or protecting people who share our values.

The supporters of the Iraq War (regardless of political affiliation) were a far bigger drain on taxes than are the homeless.

[Scott Card]

Many conservative groups, especially churches also encourage welfare situations though. They do this by saying that people should have as many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not. The (very conservative) church I belong to also does this, but they don't hammer on it quite as hard in the last few years. This also creates a lot of welfare problems, especially among the young. If even unemployed college students are encouraged to have as many children as possible, there will be welfare.

Hum. I'm a Mormon. My church doesn't say anything like what you said, Scott. In fact, it is quite the opposite. From the Handbook 2: Administering the Church: it says the following:

" The decision as to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another in this matter." Section 21.4.4

I've attended a bunch of meetings in my life and presided over a congregation or two but I have never heard anyone say that a couple should have as "many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not". If that was said to you, I would question whether that person understand doctrine, policy and the welfare program of the church.

Now, I recognize that there are those members who may believe what you said but the church certainly does not teach that.

[Goat]

Hum. I'm a Mormon. My church doesn't say anything like what you said, Scott. In fact, it is quite the opposite. From the Handbook 2: Administering the Church: it says the following:

" The decision as to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another in this matter." Section 21.4.4

I've attended a bunch of meetings in my life and presided over a congregation or two but I have never heard anyone say that a couple should have as "many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not". If that was said to you, I would question whether that person understand doctrine, policy and the welfare program of the church.

Now, I recognize that there are those members who may believe what you said but the church certainly does not teach that.

Scott, I see where you're coming from, but this is an excerpt taken from the October 2011 General Conference in a talk entitled "Children" delivered by Neil L. Anderson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:

"Many voices in the world today marginalize the importance of having children or suggest delaying or limiting children in a family. My daughters recently referred me to a blog written by a Christian mother (not of our faith) with five children. She commented: “[Growing] up in this culture, it is very hard to get a biblical perspective on motherhood. … Children rank way below college. Below world travel for sure. Below the ability to go out at night at your leisure. Below honing your body at the gym. Below any job you may have or hope to get.” She then adds: “Motherhood is not a hobby, it is a calling. You do not collect children because you find them cuter than stamps. It is not something to do if you can squeeze the time in. It is what God gave you time for.

...

“Marie and I had rationalized that to get me through medical school it would be necessary for her to remain in the workplace. Although this was not what we [wanted] to do, children would have to come later. [While looking at a Church magazine at my parents’ home,] I saw an article by Elder Spencer W. Kimball, then of the Quorum of the Twelve, [highlighting] responsibilities associated with marriage. According to Elder Kimball, one sacred responsibility was to multiply and replenish the earth. My parents’ home was [close to] the Church Administration Building. I immediately walked to the offices, and 30 minutes after reading his article, I found myself sitting across the desk from Elder Spencer W. Kimball.” (This wouldn’t be so easy today.)
“I explained that I wanted to become a doctor. There was no alternative but to postpone having our family. Elder Kimball listened patiently and then responded in a soft voice, ‘Brother Mason, would the Lord want you to break one of his important commandments in order for you to become a doctor? With the help of the Lord, you can have your family and still become a doctor. Where is your faith?’”

It seems to me that, just from this General Conference talk encourages couples to have children despite economic security or feasibility.

[Scott P]

Hum. I'm a Mormon. My church doesn't say anything like what you said, Scott. In fact, it is quite the opposite

Um, no. I am a Mormon and before November when they dissolved out ward, I had been in the Bishopric for many years.

From the Handbook 2: Administering the Church:it says the following:The decision as to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another in this matter." Section 21.4.4

Yes, the Handbook does say that. The Handbook is a set of directions for Ward and Stake Leaders that guides them in their leadership duties. What the above is saying is that Church members are not to judge someone else based on the amount of children than they have.

There are good reasons for this. My wife and I, for example, took 9 years to have our first child, though no fault of our own (obviously we heard a lot from ward members and family though!). After more than seven years we put ourselves on the adoption list. After my wife got pregnant we took ourselves off the list (only infertile couples were allowed to adopt through the church), but she miscarried. Only days after the miscarriage, we get a call from the Bishop and he says that he wants to talk to us privately about children. Naturally, we assumed that he heard about the miscarriage and he wanted to talk to us about that. So, we both show up at the Church and asked us which one of us wants to go first. I volunteered and got in there and was shocked when he stated (perhaps gently) chastising me for not having kids (he apparently did not know about the adoption attempt and miscarriage). I am so glad that my wife didn't go first as it would be upsetting. She was already upset about the miscarriage and did a lot of crying.

The Handbook is to prevent those types of situations.

I've attended a bunch of meetings in my life and presided over a congregation or two but I have never heard anyone say that a couple should have as "many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not". If that was said to you, I would question whether that person understand doctrine, policy and the welfare program of the church.

Here are just some of the official statements concerning birth control directly off lds.org (color and bold type added by me for emphasis). Since you are a lawyer, I'd be curious as to exactly how you would interpret them.

https://www.lds.org/manual/eternal-m...ntrol?lang=eng

The Lord has told us that it is the duty of every husband and wife to obey the command given to Adam to multiply and replenish the earth, so that the legions of choice spirits waiting for their tabernacles of flesh may come here and move forward under God’s great design to become perfect souls, for without these fleshly tabernacles they cannot progress to their God-planned destiny....

You came to get for yourself a mortal body that could become perfected, immortalized, and you understood that you were to act in partnership with God in providing bodies for other spirits. … And so you will not postpone parenthood. There will be rationalists who will name to you numerous reasons for postponement. Of course, it will be harder to get your college degrees or your financial start with a family, but strength like yours will be undaunted in the face of difficult obstacles. Have your family as the Lord intended. Of course it is expensive, but you will find a way, and besides, it is often those children who grow up with responsibility and hardships who carry on the world’s work”....

Too many young people set their minds, determining they will not marry or have children until they are more secure, until the military service period is over; until the college degree is secured;until the occupation is more well-defined; until the debts are paid; or until it is more convenient. They have forgotten that the first commandment is to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it.’ (Genesis 1:28.) And so brides continue their employment and husbands encourage it, and contraceptives are used to prevent conception. Relatives and friends and even mothers sometimes encourage birth control for their young newlyweds. But the excuses are many, mostly weak. The wife is not robust;the family budget will not feed extra mouths; or the expense of the doctor, hospital, and other incidentals is too great; it will disturb social life; it would prevent two salaries; and so abnormal living prevents the birth of children. The Church cannot approve nor condone the measures which so greatly limit the family.

I have never heard anyone say that a couple should have as "many babies as possible, regardless if they can afford them or not".

The above in so many words does say just that, but as I said earlier, they don't hammer on it as much as they used to (the link is from 2003).

Now, I recognize that there are those members who may believe what you said but the church certainly does not teach that.

I would have to disagree. They haven't emphasized it quite as much in recent years, but it is still in their teachings and still actively taught.

[Brian in SLC]

Hum. I'm a Mormon. My church doesn't say anything like what you said, Scott.

I'm not, but, I've always thought the reason that the LDS faithful have larger families (the largest of any group in the US) is because that's been the culture and what's been taught. Not difficult to find an enormous number of examples:

"There are multitudes of pure and holy spirits waiting to take tabernacles, now what is our duty? -To prepare tabernacles for them; to take a course that will not tend to drive those spirits into the families of the wicked, where they will be trained in wickedness, debauchery, and every species of crime. It is the duty of every righteous man and woman to prepare tabernacles for all the spirits they can" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 197).

"I regret, I think it is a crying evil, that there should exist a sentiment or a feeling among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their children. I think that is a crime wherever it occurs, where husband and wife are in possession of health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity. I believe that where people undertake to curtail or prevent the birth of their children that they are going to reap disappointment by and by. I have no hesitancy in saying that I believe that is one of the greatest crimes of the world today, this evil practice." (Quoted in Doctrines of Salvation 2:88,89).

When a man and a woman are married and they agree, or covenant, to limit their offspring to two or three, and practice devices to accomplish this purpose, they are guilty of iniquity which eventually must be punished" (Doctrines of Salvation 2:87). On the same page, President Smith offered what could quite possibly, under present circumstances, be an indictment against his own church! He went on to say, "Unfortunately this evil doctrine is being taught as a virtue by many people who consider themselves cultured and highly educated. It has even crept in among members of the Church and has been advocated in some of the classes within the Church."

"Too many young people set their minds, determining they will not marry or have children until they are more secure, until the military service period is over; until the college degree is secured; until the occupation is more well-defined; until the debts are paid; or until it is more convenient. They have forgotten that the first commandment is to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it.’ (Genesis 1:28.) And so brides continue their employment and husbands encourage it, and contraceptives are used to prevent conception… The Church cannot approve nor condone the measures which so greatly limit the family" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 328).

In a conference address given in April of 1969, 13^th LDS President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The first commandment given to man was to multiply and replenish the earth with children. That commandment has never been altered, modified, or canceled" (Conference Report, April 1969, p. 12).

[Brian in SLC]

Interesting article on the subject:

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/religio...-mormon-family

[qedcook]

Off topic? New thread?

[Scott P]

...

[Scott P]

Off topic? New thread?

It is related in a way. For better or worse, having more children than you can afford does create welfare situations.

[jman]

I find it odd when people quote our own sources when they are not a member of the LDS faith.

I mean it's fine to a certain degree, but just be careful when stating it as fact, especially when it comes to history and opinion of said of our apostles, prophets, teachers, ministry, etc.

Take this for an example, just because I'm a lawyer and an expert in law doesn't mean that automatically my wife is an expert too just by affiliation. Sure, she may know a bit more than the rest of the public but she still isn't an expert. (I'm not a lawyer btw)

All I'm saying is be careful when you try to use our own sources...for or against...LDS members.

:P


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scott P]

I find it odd when people quote our own sources when they are not a member of the LDS faith.

I am LDS, but why? Now this is getting a bit off topic, but if people want to learn about a religion, they should quote that religion's own sources rather than go to someone else.

This is true of any group or ideal, not just a religion.