Choprock Conditions

[dakotabelliston]

Have a group looking at doing Choprock in 2 weeks. Has anyone been down yet this year, know water levels in the Escalante area, or seasonal snow pack?

Also would be curious to any knowledge concerning recent log jam difficulties. Ex: if the canyon is still fairly clear in the past couple years or if it has bogged up.

Obviously trying to get a sense of water levels for the dreaded grim zone. Let me know

Thanks - Koda

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[Scott P]

This is just a hunch, but I seriously doubt you are going to find any current conditions this time of year without going out and checking them yourself.

I have never heard of anyone doing the canyon before April, but it could be done by a well prepared group.

The chances are slim however, that anyone is going to have current conditions.

[ratagonia]

This is just a hunch, but I seriously doubt you are going to find any current conditions this time of year without going out and checking them yourself.

I have never heard of anyone doing the canyon before April, but it could be done by a well prepared group.

The chances are slim however, that anyone is going to have current conditions.

Ram
and I did Choprock (Kaleidoscope) first week of March in 2002.

So there. Now you've heard of it.

It was cold. luckily we had low water conditions.

current condition = unknown. let us know.

Tom

[dakotabelliston]

I've read multiple reports of people going in late March. So I've got my fingers crossed. I'm hoping for moderate water levels to make it fun but not deadly. I have been unable to find any good trip reports of people doing the canyon in full water conditions.

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[TommyBoy]

I won't be going through Choprock, but I'll be down in Escalante tonight and back Sat. I can give you a general report of the area. I talked to someone who did Brimstone last week and they said there was a swim at the end that was unexpected. I've never done that canyon so I don't know how unusual it is to have water there.

[Scott P]

Ram and I did Choprock (Kaleidoscope) first week of March in 2001.

Good info. I'm sure it has been done in March; I just hadn't heard specific trips until now.

I won't be going through Choprock, but I'll be down in Escalante tonight and back Sat. I can give you a general report of the area.

I don't know if conditions in the general area correlate well with conditions in Choprock (maybe Tom or Ram can expound on this). Choprock seems to be a different beast when compared to canyons in the area, at least as far as water conditions go. I think it has to do with how much sand is in the canyon at the time. Sometimes when it has been a dry year and most canyons are dry, Choprock has still been quite wet.

I have been unable to find any good trip reports of people doing the canyon in full water conditions.

I would suggest contacting Ram. He has done it in very difficult conditions. I have done it in "moderately hard conditions" (or so I was told) when the water was a little high with some challenging log jams, but not in extreme conditions. When the canyon is completely full, it can be extremely difficult.

[dakotabelliston]

I won't be going through Choprock, but I'll be down in Escalante tonight and back Sat. I can give you a general report of the area. I talked to someone who did Brimstone last week and they said there was a swim at the end that was unexpected. I've never done that canyon so I don't know how unusual it is to have water there.

Thank you !!! I appreciate it.

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[jman]

I would suggest contacting Ram. He has done it in very difficult conditions. I have done it in "moderately hard conditions" (or so I was told) when the water was a little high with some challenging log jams, but not in extreme conditions. When the canyon is completely full, it can be extremely difficult.

That would be a fun post for somebody to take up if they have the pics for it. Basically a post comparing low, middle and high conditions.

I did chop rock the day after a rainstorm and while it was difficult with some energy-sucking logjams, it wasn't "extreme". There was LONG corridors of just swimming and swimming and swimming and more swimming. They were long. It felt like the black hole but much longer.

Maybe anyone with these extreme or difficult pics can elaborate more?


But there probably is a post on the interwebs about this already...


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[Scott P]

Maybe anyone with these extreme or difficult pics can elaborate more?

I once asked Ram what the most difficult canyon that he has ever done was. He said that it was SF Choprock in high water. If that was the hardest canyon that Ram has done (unless he's done a harder one in the last few years), Choprock must be pretty dang hard in high water. Hopefully Ram can tune into this thread.

Tom Jones does have a diagram of what conditions can be:



In the below video from 1988 Turville mentions a canyon with a difficult log obstacle that was very difficult to get around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsruULnmBsY

The mention starts at at 24:30.

Although the name of the canyon isn't mentioned, it was the SF of Choprock. We had to climb over some big vertical logs too, but it wasn't extreme.

If Turville mentions it as difficult, it must have been.

Unless you are 100% sure of current conditions, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

[TommyBoy]

Maybe anyone with these extreme or difficult pics can elaborate more?


But there probably is a post on the interwebs about this already..

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I've looked, the best I could find is some diagrams, but no pics, if you find some let me know where I'd love to see them as well. My understanding from talking to people is that the water levels in there have only a little to do with recent rain and more with how the last flash flood arranged the sand dams and log jams, which is why even right after a hard rain it might not be in extreme conditions.

[jman]

I've looked, the best I could find is some diagrams, but no pics, if you find some let me know where I'd love to see them as well. My understanding from talking to people is that the water levels in there have only a little to do with recent rain and more with how the last flash flood arranged the sand dams and log jams, which is why even right after a hard rain it might not be in extreme conditions.

That's a good point.

From toms diagram that Scott pointed out (thanks btw!) I would describe our trip through it as "high water" then. We couldn't stand anywhere for a LONG time but there were a few logjams to climb over while treading water. And it was just a log or two or three. It was no log soup. Nothing compared to Imlay's log soup anyway.

Like you said, still would be fun to see photos to compare them.


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[Scott P]

From toms diagram that Scott pointed out (thanks btw!) I would describe our trip through it as "high water" then. We couldn't stand anywhere for a LONG time but there were a few logjams to climb over while treading water.

What you are describing sound more like normal conditions (at least as I understand it), but in difficult conditions, you have to climb pretty high up to get above the logs. The canyons pinches out to very tight high up so you have to stay high.

We had to climb over several log jams, but only one required climbing very high up (I was told we did it in moderate or moderately hard conditions-early May 2011-it didn't seem bad at all-but I personally don't have much to compare it too-it can be much more difficult). From the top of where we had to climb up though, we could look down canyon and could see that if the water was higher, and if there were more logs) we would have to stay high for a long time. Climbing above the first log (30 feet?) (I was first up), all as I could see down canyon were log jams (which was intimidating since it was all of our first times through), but luckily we found that we could squeeze under most of them or didn't have to climb very high to get over them.

The thing about photos is that not many people get photos of the difficult sections of canyons since they are focused on something else.

It would be nice if someone has some.

[ratagonia]

The water controls the sand.

The sand controls the water.

While the 'right' combination of sand and water rarely sets up to make it difficult, one should always go into Choprock anticipating that it MIGHT be quite a struggle.

This is one reason I disdain questions of "what is it like in canyon X...". I guess it helps to know what conditions the most recent party found, and then you might or might not find the same or similar conditions, or it might be different. To me the real question is, what is the NASTIEST the canyon can be..., and if it is easier than that then we laugh all the way to the bank. So to speak.

Tom

[kiwi_outdoors]

The water controls the sand.

The sand controls the water.

While the 'right' combination of sand and water rarely sets up to make it difficult, one should always go into Choprock anticipating that it MIGHT be quite a struggle.

This is one reason I disdain questions of "what is it like in canyon X...". I guess it helps to know what conditions the most recent party found, and then you might or might not find the same or similar conditions, or it might be different. To me the real question is, what is the NASTIEST the canyon can be..., and if it is easier than that then we laugh all the way to the bank. So to speak.

Tom

and that, folks, is fine wisdom!