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Thread: President Trump

  1. #61
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  3. #62
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  4. #63

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  8. #67
    Yeah, but this time we are playing to win!

  9. #68

  10. #69
    Actually I've seen the contracts on that project (this is what I do for a living) and any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive has the be US. Which is actually a pretty standard line in government contacts ( which this is not).

    Spin, spin, spin.....

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Actually I've seen the contracts on that project (this is what I do for a living) and any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive has the be US. Which is actually a pretty standard line in government contacts ( which this is not).

    Spin, spin, spin.....
    Not on "that" project. Not required to use US steel at all even for steel purchased after.

    This pipeline business has been an interesting journey. First the vow that US steel would be used. Then, an executive order was signed. Said executive order isn't an executive order (or, at least I can find no record of it...not listed in the Federal Register). Morphed into a memo which has TransCanada (uhhh, not a US company) reapplying for a permit. They do, but, their permit doesn't mention US steel at all.

    So...what was initially an executive order isn't. A presidential memo instead is issued on 24 January. No mention of US steel.

    Not trying to bust your chops, but, cite a source that calls for US steel for Keystone for "any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive".

    I think that was brokered away in trade for TransCanada dropping its NAFTA lawsuit? That's why all the news media (fake and otherwise) have mentioned no US steel even going forward.

    I surfed through all the executive orders issued by Trump. No mention of domestic sources for steel on any pipeline project. Am I missing one? Which number order???

    Yeah, crazy spin spin.

    Oh, and here's the source of the steel:

    http://www.evraz.com/

    This language sound familiar? Guess who introduced this as a bill into congress?

    “to the maximum extent consistent with the obligations of the United States under international trade agreements, none of the iron, steel, or manufactured goods used in the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline and facilities approved by this Act may be produced outside of the United States.”

    Tennis anyone?

    Name:  Ivanka.jpg
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    Note the woman to Ivanka's right....(not that the other folks aren't interesting too...ha ha...).

    Twists for me...


  12. #71
    Actually I've seen the contracts on that project (this is what I do for a living) and any steel purchased AFTER Trump signed the directive has the be US.
    That may be true, but according to Trump's own spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders and all news sources, including Fox News, all of the steel for the Keystone Pipeline was already purchased before any directive, so even if there is a directive to buy US made steel for the pipeline the future, it seems too late for the Keystone Pipeline (at least for the initial construction).

    That said though, meh; politicians lie and make promises they can't keep.

    I'm more interested in seeing if Trump is going to keep his promise to make healthcare better and massive improvements for infrastructure (instead of spending all of our money overseas).

    Here is Trump's promise about healthcare (direct quote):

    "We're going to have (health) insurance for everybody. There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.

    They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better"-Donald Trump January 14 2017.

    Infrastructure promise:

    "Another Republican President, Dwight D. Eisenhower, initiated the last truly great national infrastructure program --- the building of the interstate highway system. The time has come for a new program of national rebuilding,

    America has spent approximately $6 trillion in the Middle East, all this while our infrastructure at home is crumbling. With this $6 trillion we could have rebuilt our country -- twice. And maybe even three times if we had people who had the ability to negotiate"

    Obviously I wish Trump would support things like National Parks and Public Lands, but he never promised to do so (that I am aware of at least), so I'll just point out his promises that I hope that he does keep. That doesn't mean I have my hopes up. Trump's promise above on healthcare is probably a lie, but that doesn't meant that I don't want it to happen. I am willing to bet that the promise will just turn out to be another lie though. /bookmarked
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  13. #72
    I read an essay this morning that reminded me of our current situation (bolding of the final lines was done by me):

    BAYARD vs LIONHEART

    July 26, 1920

    One discerns in all the current discussion of MM. Harding and Cox a certain sour dismay. It seems to be quite impossible for any wholly literate man to pump up any genuine enthusiasm for either of them. Each, of course, is praised lavishly by the professional politicians of his own party, and compared to Lincoln, Jefferson and Cleveland by the surviving hacks of the party press, but in the middle ground, among men who care less for party success than for the national dignity, there is a gone feeling in the stomach, with shooting pains down the legs. The Liberals, in particular, seem to be suffering badly. They discover that Harding is simply a third-rate political wheel-horse, with the face of a moving-picture actor, the intelligence of a respectable agricultural implement dealer, and the imagination of a lodge joiner, and that Cox is no more than a provincial David Harum with a gift for bamboozling the boobs.

    These verdicts, it seems to me, are substantially just. No one but an idiot would argue seriously that either candidate is a first-rate man, or even a creditable specimen of second-rate man. Any State in the Union, at least above the Potomac, could produce a thousand men quite as good, and many States could produce a thousand a great deal better. Harding, intellectually, seems to be merely a benign blank—a decent, harmless, laborious, hollow-headed mediocrity perhaps comparable to the late Harrington, of Maryland. Cox is quicker of wit, but a good deal less honest. He belongs to the cunning type; there is a touch of the shyster in him. His chicaneries in the matter of prohibition, both during the convention and since, show the kink in his mind. He is willing to do anything to cadge votes, and he includes in that anything the ready sacrifices of his good faith, of the national welfare, and of the hopes and confidence of those who honestly support him. Neither candidate reveals the slightest dignity of conviction. Neither cares a hoot for any discernible principle. Neither, in any intelligible sense, is a man of honor.

    But it is one thing to yield to virtuous indignation against such individuals and quite another thing to devise any practicable scheme for booting them out of the synagogue. The weakness of those of us who take a gaudy satisfaction in our ideas, and battle for them violently, and face punishment for them willingly and even proudly, is that we forget the primary business of the man in politics, which is the snatching and safeguarding of his job. That business, it must be plain, concerns itself only occasionally with the defense and propagation of ideas, and even then it must confine itself to those that, to a reflective man, must usually appear to be insane. The first and last aim of the politician is to get votes, and the safest of all ways to get votes is to appear to the plain man to be a plain man like himself, which is to say, to appear to him to be happily free from any heretical treason to the body of accepted platitudes-to be filled to the brim with the flabby, banal, childish notions that challenge no prejudice and lay no burden of examination upon the mind.

    It is not often, in these later days of the democratic enlightenment, that positive merit lands a man in elective office in the United States; much more often it is a negative merit that gets him there. That negative merit is simply disvulnerability. Of the two candidates, that one wins who least arouses the suspicions and distrusts of the great masses of simple men. Well, what are more likely to arouse those suspicions and distrusts than ideas, convictions, principles? The plain people are not hostile to shysterism, save it be gross and unsuccessful. They admire a Roosevelt for his bold stratagems and duplicities, his sacrifice of faith and principle to the main chance, his magnificent disdain of fairness and honor. But they shy instantly and inevitably from the man who comes before them with notions that they cannot immediately translate into terms of their everyday delusions; they fear the novel idea, and particularly the revolutionary idea, as they fear the devil. When Roosevelt, losing hold upon his cunning at last, embraced the vast hodgepodge of innovations, some idiotic but some sound enough, that went by the name of Progressivism, they jumped from under him in trembling, and he came down with a thump that left him on his back until death delivered him from all hope and caring.

    It seems to me that this fear of ideas is a peculiarly democratic phenomenon, and that it is nowhere so horribly apparent as in the United States, perhaps the nearest approach to an actual democracy yet seen in the world. It was Americans who invented the curious doctrine that there is a body of doctrine in every department of thought that every good citizen is in duty bound to accept and cherish; it was Americans who invented the right-thinker. The fundamental concept, of course, was not original. The theologians embraced it centuries ago, and continue to embrace it to this day. It appeared on the political side in the Middle Ages, and survived in Russia into our time. But it is only in the United States that it has been extended to all departments of thought. It is only here that any novel idea, in any field of human relations, carries with it a burden of obnoxiousness, and is instantly challenged as mysteriously immoral by the great masses of right-thinking men. It is only here, so far as I have been able to make out, that there is a right way and a wrong way to think about the beverages one drinks with one's meals, and the way children ought to be taught in the schools, and the manner in which foreign alliances should be negotiated, and what ought to be done about the Bolsheviki.

    In the face of this singular passion for conformity, this dread of novelty and originality, it is obvious that the man of vigorous mind and stout convictions is gradually shouldered out of public life. He may slide into office once or twice, but soon or late he is bound to be held up, examined and incontinently kicked out. This leaves the field to the intellectual jelly-fish and inner tubes. There is room for two sorts of them—first, the blank cartridge who has no convictions at all and is willing to accept anything to make votes, and, secondly, the mountebank who is willing to conceal and disguise what he actually believes, according as the wind blows hot or cold. Of the first sort, Harding is an excellent specimen; of the second sort, Cox.

    Such tests arise inevitably out of democracy—the domination of unreflective and timorous men, moved in vast herds by mob emotions. In private life no man of sense would think of applying them. We do not estimate the integrity and ability of an acquaintance by his flabby willingness to accept our ideas; we estimate him by the honesty and effectiveness with which he maintains his own. All of us, if we are of reflective habit, like and admire men whose fundamental beliefs differ radically from our own. But when a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental—men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack, or count himself lost. His one aim is to disarm suspicion, to arouse confidence in his orthodoxy, to avoid challenge. If he is a man of convictions, of enthusiasm, of self-respect, it is cruelly hard. But if he is, like Harding, a numskull like the idiots he faces, or, like Cox, a pliant intellectual Jenkins, it is easy.

    The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by the force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre—the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

    The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

  14. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by uintafly View Post
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    Funny thing...this is exactly how I regarded the last guy. Every time Obama opened his mouth, I heard a stuttering, stammering fool.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

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  16. #74

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  18. #75
    Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....


  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....

    Indeed! Mr. Maddow made of fool of himself with that one.

    About 3 weeks before the Inauguration, I made a comment in the other (deleted) presidential thread that "something's gotta give" in regards to the war with the liberal media...after trying so hard to nail his ass to the wall, and completely failing, it's gotten to the point where they are literally trying to make something out of nothing...as if that wasn't the case before. They have NOTHING legit on him.

    This may be it, boys...I think Trump is now standing above the battered body of his vanquished foe. Not to say they won't continue to attack, but they seem to be the fool shouting on a soapbox in the middle of the village square while everyone goes about their business, ignoring them. Too much Chicken Little will get ya, every time.

    Trump is straight up badass.
    Suddenly my feet are feet of mud
    It all goes slo-mo
    I don't know why I am crying
    Am I suspended in Gaffa?

  20. #77
    Yeah.... that tax thing kinda backfired on the haters....
    Those were 2005 taxes. Or has he shown his 2015 or 2016 ones yet?

    Personally, I think it should be a requirement for all candidates running for higher political office to show their tax returns. I don't mean just Trump or just Republicans, but all of them. Trump, Harry Reid, Hillary; all of them.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  21. #78

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    Why?
    If they are going to decide how much we pay and what the money goes towards, then we should get to see what they pay.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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  24. #80
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    Why?

    Exactly!!
    What difference does a tax return make on ones ability to govern?


    • No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

    guess Scott P wants a new amendment.
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

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