President Trump

[twotimer]

Yikes!

[Iceaxe]

I also know my history and will bet anyone here that I will beat them in a history or geography test (of your choosing). Any takers?

Yeah... I'll play, my knowledge of military history is pretty sharp.

But lets do a quick recap before we begin...

You (@Scott P) asked the simple question "Trump has said other countries should start paying more for their national defense (and in my opinion, he's right). Should Israel be included also?"

To which I replied, "There are methods of paying your fair share other than money....." and pointed out that the current arrangement actually benefits the US and provides the US a better product at a cheaper price than if we purchased it elsewhere or used other methods.

At which point you (@Scott P) went into a rant filled with liberal opinions mixed with facts, which were explained from the liberal point of view.

I believe that brings us up-to-date, did I miss anything?

So let me take over the narrative for a moment, In 1948 Israel came to exist for a bunch of reasons and by 1967 had evolved into the country we now all know.

In 1967 Israel was attacked by Egypt supported by Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, PLO, Sudan and Tunisia. The Egyptian coalition got their ass kicked in 6 day, which is why it's called the 6 Day War. Calling the war an major ass kicking is probably an understatement as the Israeli's lost less then 1000 soldiers and the Egyptian coalition lost over 20,000 soldiers and massive amounts of territory. The war should really have been called The 6 Day Ass Kicking.

During the 6 day ass kicking Israel captures the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. After the ass kicking just about everyone except Israel and the US wants to pretend the 6 Day War never happened and thinks Israel should just return the territory won as if the attack on Israel was just a big joke.....

But I can tell you right now it is NEVER going to happen....

By 1982 Israel had withdrawn from the Sinai Peninsula for various reasons. But Israel still controls the other areas captured and is not giving them back except by force no matter what the UN says or how many resolutions the UN passes or where the US Embassy is located....

At this point you are welcome to share your liberal opinion of why Israel should give back control of the captured areas, why the US should not locate their embassy in the Israeli capital, and why the US should not support Israel.....

[accadacca]

Gag gift for my father in law...

[Scott P]

Yeah... I'll play, my knowledge of military history is pretty sharp.

That's good and I'll take your challenge.

At which point you (@Scott P) went into a rant filled with liberal opinions mixed with facts, which were explained from the liberal point of view.

There was no rant, just some points to ponder. If there are mistakes, then kindly point them out. As far as I know (and I know a lot about history), everything I said was correct. Also, despite your claim of "liberal opinions", liberals and conservatives are probably equally ignorant when it comes to world history.

So let me take over the narrative for a moment, In 1948 Israel came to exist for a bunch of reasons and by 1967 had evolved into the country we now all know.

The first part of the sentence is correct, but Israel has had many changes since 1967. For example, it is becoming less religious and more secular. I assume you mean borders though.

In 1967 Israel was attacked by Egypt supported by Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, PLO, Sudan and Tunisia

Israel struck first as a preemptive self defense strike. Egypt was however in violation of their promise to keep the Straights of Teran open and had moved many of its military forces to the Israeli border.

The Egyptian coalition got their ass kicked in 6 day, which is why it's called the 6 Day War. Calling the war an major ass kicking is probably an understatement as the Israeli's lost less then 1000 soldiers and the Egyptian coalition lost over 20,000 soldiers and massive amounts of territory. The war should really have been called The 6 Day Ass Kicking.

During the 6 day ass kicking Israel captures the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. After the ass kicking just about everyone except Israel and the US wants to pretend the 6 Day War never happened and thinks Israel should just return the territory won as if the attack on Israel was just a big joke.....

But I can tell you right now it is NEVER going to happen....

By 1982 Israel had withdrawn from the Sinai Peninsula for various reasons. But Israel still controls the other areas captured and is not giving them back except by force no matter what the UN says or how many resolutions the UN passes or where the US Embassy is located....

All of the above is true.

At this point you are welcome to share your liberal opinion of why Israel should give back control of the captured areas, why the US should not locate their embassy in the Israeli capital, and why the US should not support Israel.....

I might be inclined to share that opinion if it were my opinion, but it is not, other than perhaps the worry that relocating the embassy would put our staff in danger because it is in a less secure location. You just assume that the above is my opinion. I haven't really expressed mine yet, but here it is.

I also think that it would be very dangerous for the entire region if the US didn't support Israel. If Israel lost US support, it is my belief that there would be a big possibility that they would be attacked. If Israel were attacked and felt that they could be annihilated, then there is a good change that they will use their nukes in defense or retaliation. I'm guessing that we both believe (correct me if wrong) that Israel has nukes, regardless if it hasn't been "officially declared". The US support of Israel is probably one of the main reasons that this hasn't happened yet.

I do not view Israel as perfect, but I do believe in their right to exists. Even if someone believed that the creation of modern Israel is wrong, almost everyone involved in that choice is dead and most people living in Israel were born there. It should be time to let the past die. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

So, yes, the US should support Israel. We should hold it in equal regard, but not above our other important allies.

My main reason for bringing up some history points in that Americans in general should really know their history better (it sounds like you do know yours pretty well). There are a lot of misconceptions among Americans as to how Israel, the Middle East, and other countries are in general. To be fair, there is a lot of misconception of what the US is like from other countries as well. I have been to 50 countries and you wouldn't believe some of the weird questions about the US that we have been asked.

My only real disagreement about what was said was the comments about liberal Jews (which are the majority of American Jews) hating Israel's government. That statement holds no truth as least with most American Jews. While it could make an interesting thread about why American Jews are liberal and vote democrat, that's probably beyond the scope of a thread on Trump. I'll start the thread after the Christmas holidays if people really are interested in such discussion.

Anyway, we should definitely take on each others challenge of a history contest. If possible, geography as well. Your terms; however you want to do it.

It would be good if Americans knew more about history and geography. To me they are much more important than they are given credit for. Most of the mistakes the US has made have been made in the past.

If you want to know the truth, the only thing you really offend me with is the constant referral of me as a liberal. In recent years I almost always side with the liberals on environmental and public land issues, often on foreign policy, much of the time on education, and sometimes health care, but I am far from being a true liberal. I am more liberal than you on many issues, but there is plenty I disagree with liberals (such as free welfare; with rare exceptions, I don't think it should be free-it should be worked for).

Although I share several viewpoints with liberals and some with conservatives, but I really do resent being called either. I have said many times that both parties are becoming more extreme and that partisanship is slowly destroying this country. I can also say that countries that are either too far left or too far right/conservative are not places I would want to live. I would assume that most here would (even if reluctantly) agree, even if they aren't on the same political spectrum.

[rockgremlin]

Aren't you a libertarian, Scott? Which would explain why you don't affiliate yourself strictly with either republicans or democrats.

[Iceaxe]

I'm guessing that we both believe (correct me if wrong) that Israel has nukes, regardless if it hasn't been "officially declared".

Israel has up to 400 nukes, and unlike some nuclear counties they have a state of the art missile delivery system.

What should be most concerning about Israel having nukes is they have refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

[Scott P]

Aren't you a libertarian, Scott

I side with the libertarians on several issues, including on many foreign policy issues (since we are discussing those). I do not side with them on public lands though. If it weren't for that, I'd be most likely to vote for a libertarian.

[Iceaxe]

LMAO.... I can appreciate a good joke.

[Iceaxe]

Guatemala follows in Trumps footsteps and announces it's moving it's embassy to Jerusalem.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12...jerusalem.html

The Czech Republic will probably be the next to announce as others face reality and follow the US lead.

UN resolution 242 has officially shit the bed.

The Palestinians should have accepted one of the numerous generous deals offered them in the past as they are about to end up with the smelly end of the stick.

[Iceaxe]

Trump makes historic mark on federal bench and 2018 could be even bigger.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...be-bigger.html

[Iceaxe]

All my employees received one full months wage for their Christmas bonus. It's been a couple years since we have been able to be so generous.

I guess I should mention to them that Trump is partially responsible for the bonus as a couple of them were big Hillary supporters.

So I told my employee's today that they all had to send Trump a card thanking him for their Christmas bonus this year and for next years tax cut on S-Corps. The liberal's in the office looked like I had just shot their dog and defiled their sister.

Some days it's good to be the king.

[rockgremlin]

Was unaware you employed liberals. This surprises me.


Perhaps even more shocking is the fact that there are liberals willing to work for you.

[Iceaxe]

Was unaware you employed liberals. This surprises me.


Perhaps even more shocking is the fact that there are liberals willing to work for you.

Money makes for strange bedfellows.

[Iceaxe]

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[oldno7]

Testing for 2018

[oldno7]

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[oldno7]

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[oldno7]

.,.,.

[Iceaxe]

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[Sombeech]

This thread delivers the LOLs