Outdoor Retailer Show Boycott in Utah

[rockgremlin]

Woke up staring down the barrel of a Glock 17 with a cop yelling at my buddy and I to get out of the car and get spread eagle on the hood. Meanwhile, 2 more cop cars show up and they stood around laughing about the two hicks from Utah and their first trip to a "big city".

Dude, WTF? So what was the outcome?

[Sandstone Addiction]

Apparently the local LE weren't used to law abiding citizens exercising their right to protect themselves. He saw my legally unloaded, non-concealed 357 mag and went crazy.

After they searched our vehicle and found nothing, they reluctantly let us go.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

[rockgremlin]

Apparently the local LE weren't used to law abiding citizens exercising their right to protect themselves. He saw my legally unloaded, non-concealed 357 mag and went crazy.

After they searched our vehicle and found nothing, they reluctantly let us go.

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

Oh brother!

Of all people, you'd think cops would understand the gun laws.

It may have been a ruse to search your vehicle -- which even then, if you refused they're not allowed to search your car. No warrant = no search. They might want to claim that your sidearm gave them reasonable cause, but that's a weak excuse that probably wouldn't hold up in court. Especially since it sounds like you weren't brandishing or threatening anybody with it. Minding your own business with an unloaded sidearm on your hip isn't a good excuse to search someone's vehicle.

[Iceaxe]

If you had spent much time around law enforcement you would know they are the kings of breaking the law when it benefits them. I could easily write a book on just things I've witnessed. I do understand where groups like black lives matter are coming from, although I think they often pick the wrong encounter to champion they do have a legitimate bitch.

[DirkHammergate]

Everyone I've ever talked to about this issue is in full agreement that there's no other city like Salt Lake when it comes to big city access to mountains/slopes. Denver's damn near a 90 minute drive to the mountains. So 3+ hours of round trip driving to get to the mountains whereas Salt Lake is a 10 minute drive...and maybe even less than that depending on where you live.

So, this was one of the more intriguing stories to me locally over the last year. I don't mean to rehash an old forum topic but I'm Hammergate so I will.

A little background on me, I grew up outside a place that were difficult to enjoy nature without crowds or proper permitting. As a kid would come to Utah every summer in a station wagon that might overheat in the middle of Nevada (Dad was a school principal so it typically was a 2 to 3 week trip depending on where the radiator blew out). Every time I'd see the Wasatch Front became mesmerized, I just couldn't stop staring and wanting to explore it. I decided at a young age to reside permanently in Utah with the occasional hippie dream to live Santa Cruz. Fast forward 30 + years (marriage, divorce, teen kids cycle) and I still stare at them in wonder from the back yard of my house.

As a parent of teenage boys that are with me half the time I decided about 6 months ago to stay busy when they weren't at home. Idle time is a bad, bad thing for Dirk,I tend to find myself in all sorts of pickles if not busy. I decided to start Uber driving because I'm a bit of a conversationalist, like road trips and being in Sugarhouse thought it'd be a great way to shuttle people downtown/airport.

This brings me to my point, I picked up at least 20 outdoor vendors and I'd ask them how they felt about the change in venue to Denver. Reaction ranged from pissed, sad, bewildered, concern for Downtown businesses and and some didn't even have the ability to compute why Utah's delegation was so against preserving these Monuments. Again, they all cited Denver's proximity to anything in comparison to SLC. All talked about how they love coming to Salt Lake City and it doesn't compute that we have a delegation like this because it's not been their experience. Not a single vendor was happy about it. Needless to say, It was pretty eye opening.

I'm not here to say who is right or wrong in this but I can't figure out what the answer is. It's seems worse to me than say 15 or 20 years ago. My favorite spot on the planet, the entire planet resides in the San Rafael Swell a place where mixed use seems really great. Yes at times it can be like Disneyland but at the same time I've had incredible experiences down there where my soul felt whole, complete and magical. This State is a jewel from the Deep Creeks to the Parks to the Uintas to Fish Lake to the Great Salt Lake to Boulder Mountain and the Henry's. I simply don't understand the disconnect between the delegation and the majority of Utahns that want them. Plus at 50 million per year, with a renewed years long contract, it's just a blunder.

[rockgremlin]

^^^The Swell is also one of my favorite places in the world. Had many a spiritual experience out there in the heart of the Swell.

[DirkHammergate]

^^^The Swell is also one of my favorite places in the world. Had many a spiritual experience out there in the heart of the Swell.

Almost every time I go, 2/3 times a spring or fall.

Oh one of Uber experiences has also been people coming into Utah for the first time and asking the question "What the hell is that over on the west side of your valley?"

"Ummm, an open pit mine"

Yeah that's fun.

[Sombeech]

some didn't even have the ability to compute why Utah's delegation was so against preserving these Monuments.

Here is the primary point of conflict. They think we don't want to preserve these things.

I'm still yet to hear the real reason why they think we want these places gone.

[Scott P]

Here is the primary point of conflict. They think we don't want to preserve these things.

I'm still yet to hear the real reason why they think we want these places gone.

Simple. Because the State does almost nothing to try and protect them.

[Sombeech]

Simple. Because the State does almost nothing to try and protect them.

*almost

I think that needs to be defined.

Because some are defining that as an active agenda to "destroy" the monuments, and these jackasses need to be called out on it.

[Scott P]

*almost

I think that needs to be defined.

That's fair. So let's define it.

Can you post us a list of things the State of Utah has done in recent years to protect the wildlands? I can think of very few, thus the "almost nothing" phrase.

I will be happy to provide a list of things the State of Utah has done in recent years that goes against the protection of wildlands.

We could compare lists. To start with, can you post some things in recent years that the State of Utah has been doing to protect wildlands?

[Sombeech]

That's fair. So let's define it.

Can you post us a list of

...no, you made the claim, I'd like a definition.

Understand, I don't care either way, I don't have a horse in this race. When I hear a claim like that, I'd just like some clarification of what it means, and how it translates into us locals want to level the unique monuments of Utah with a Walmart parking lot.

[Sombeech]

I've heard the claims that "Utah Mormon Conservatives don't care about the monuments". I'm just interested in some quote, or some tweet, or some evidence that a Utah politician, on EITHER side, doesn't care about these lands.

What it comes down to is if you don't do this our way, since we know best, it can only mean that you want these lands to get destroyed. It's a little closed minded if you ask me, to assume a certain political policy is the only thing that will work, and if it's not supported, everybody else wants to see it burn.

And then when the point can't be discussed in a mature way, to stomp their feet, take their ball and leave, and try to show the public how much they will all be punished by not agreeing with their political agenda. It's just crybaby bullshit and I don't care because I'm still going down to St George this weekend to go Mountain Biking, and I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

[middlefork]

I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

LOL! Like you click on the checkout box and whatever you ordered is manufactured by Amazon. Amazing how the new world operates.

[Sombeech]

LOL! Like you click on the checkout box and whatever you ordered is manufactured by Amazon. Amazing how the new world operates.

Yep, if it comes from Colorado or Florida, I'm biking when it gets to me in 2 days from Amazon prime. If I'm a Utah bike parts seller/manufacturer, I'm not moving my shop to Colorado just because the crybabies picked up their event and moved it.

Still kinda waiting to hear how I want to level a monument. Don't get distracted by the shiny object, now.

[rockgremlin]

I'm still going down to St George this weekend to go Mountain Biking, and I buy all my stuff from Amazon.

Which skate park are you riding your mountain bike at? Cuz I know you aren't venturing out into the wilderness. You hate the wilderness.

[Sombeech]

Which skate park are you riding your mountain bike at? Cuz I know you aren't venturing out into the wilderness. You hate the wilderness.

The only indoor one they have down there. It really sucks because now, I've got to drive all the way over to Colorado to pick up my bike parts, since Utah hates it's own land.

[Scott P]

I've heard the claims that "Utah Mormon Conservatives don't care about the monuments"

Some don't and some do. There are actually a lot of Utah Mormons who are pro-wilderness. James Faust was one of them. Protecting the environment is also a commandment from the First Presidency.

More Mormons need to stand up in this regard. It seems that a lot of politicians fit in your category above, but not nearly as many in the general population.

What it comes down to is if you don't do this our way, since we know best, it can only mean that you want these lands to get destroyed.

To be clear, I am referring to protecting wildlands, not all lands. I can promise you that I'm not anti development.

I want to see some evidence that a Utah politician, on EITHER side, doesn't care about these lands.

Oh they care about these lands, but not from a protection standpoint. They care about the money that can be exploited from them (and earning money is a good thing, but in my opinion at least there are right and wrong ways to do so).

As evidence how about the illegal ATV rides organized by some of the politicians themselves? Do you really think that that is protecting the land? Organizing ATV rallies through archaeological sites and where the creek themselves (i.e. the Paria) is not protecting the land. That in itself is a mountain of evidence.

And then when the point can't be discussed in a mature way, to stomp their feet, take their ball and leave, and try to show the public how much they will all be punished by not agreeing with their political agenda

It was the other way around. For years the convention tried to work and compromise with the Utah lawmakers in hopes that they would make some progress. Most of the time, the Utah lawmakers usually went counter to attempts at compromise.

Here is just one random direct quote from Orrin Hatch as evidence (I could post hundreds, but want to post one at a time to see if anyone else can post something positive in the way Utah is protecting the wildlands):

“This bill creates millions of acres of restrictive wilderness designation in Utah that would obstruct energy development and future energy transmission, as well as recreational access to a large portion of our state –Orrin Hatch

[Sombeech]

For years the convention tried to work and compromise with the Utah lawmakers in hopes that they would make some progress.

Compromise goes both ways, and this is an honest question, what did the convention agree to give up on, what were they willing to abandon so they could meet in the middle?

[Scott P]

Compromise goes both ways, and this is an honest question, what did the convention agree to give up on, what were they willing to abandon so they could meet in the middle?

For years the Outdoor Retailer Trade Show agreed to keep the show in Utah as long as Utah didn't always oppose designations of wilderness and monuments. For 20+ years Utah politicians kept telling the show that they will do more to support wildlands, but they seldom did. The Outdoor Retailer Trade Show stayed anyway in good faith, despite broken promises. This was certainly compromise. When the retailers themselves started pulling out of the show or boycotting it, the Show really had little choice.