Man survives 90-foot fall in the Grand Canyon

[Sombeech]

For my friends that have gone Cliff Diving at lake Powell, the highest platform at lava hot springs is only 33 feet. But if this height is jumped from a cliff, it becomes 70. It's the magic number.



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[Scott P]

Have you ever had to perform a rescue of someone on double-strand? What if the individual was stuck on the rope (double-strand) within a waterfall?

As said earlier the only reason I can see it as an advantage is in swift water. This was not the case here.

As far as a person getting stuck on the rope, I have never had to perform a rescue of someone on double strand. Or single strand. In fact, how often does this happen? I haven't even seen or heard of someone getting stuck on rappel, other than perhaps a few seconds if he or she had too much friction. I do know of many, many accidents that have occurred on improperly set up biner blocks. Shane points out at least three in Pine Creek. There are probably a lot more than that in Pine Creek. I know of a lot more than that (Birch Creek, Heaps, Mystery, Cascade, Elephant Butte, Soap Creek, etc.).

If having to rescue someone stuck on a single strand rappel is the issue, it seems the safest thing would be to have another rope along.

[Scott P]

Was that really 90 feet? Looks closer to 40.

It was confirmed that it happened on the first stage of rappel 1. That would put it at 60 feet.

[moab mark]

If he ascended and walk out seems like it would have to be first rappel?

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[Iceaxe]

I’ve found the number of blocks accidents odd since I always use a safety back-up of the block, which protects all but the last individual from error. Do most groups not use a safety back-up? Do canyoneering courses not teach beginners to add a safety back-up?

So folks take an extremely simple system and complicate it with a biner block, and to prevent errors in the more complicated biner block system, they complicate it even more by adding safety backups...

....is anyone else beginning to see the problem here?

[Brian in SLC]

So folks take an extremely simple system and complicate it with a biner block, and to prevent errors in the more complicated biner block system, they complicate it even more by adding safety backups...

....is anyone else beginning to see the problem here?

How else you gonna dazzle the newbs?

[rich67]

is it just me, or does his fall seem unusually slow near the bottom? It almost seems like there is some resistance on the rope or something else slowing him down. Does not look like he impacted at full force if it was a free-fall..

[Scott P]

is it just me, or does his fall seem unusually slow near the bottom? It almost seems like there is some resistance on the rope or something else slowing him down. Does not look like he impacted at full force if it was a free-fall..

See previous post in this thread:


He didn't free-fall and was still attached to the rope. He just lost control/friction. It's the equivalent of letting your brake hand go on a Figure 8 Device. You go fast and it can still kill you, but you don't free fall, and are still slowed down.

[qedcook]

To me it looks like he bumps the sides of the canyon walls as he falls, which slows him down.

[accadacca]

Posted on the Facebook post. Gave me a chuckle...

[SlickRock]

With all due respect to all who competently use the biner block, which has included me, there has been repeated incidents of canyoneers using this method.

Is there not a safe, simple alternative that provides the advantages of a biner block yet ensures the security of the person rappelling?

Just this past fall, after rapping the first sequence of 5 raps on Sons of Yesterday in Yosemite Valley, my partner and I discovered one of our ropes sheathes damaged exposing the core.

I recommended using the biner block for the remaining raps. In response, she introduced me to a different method that might be called the "Reepschnur rappel" in some circles.

Instead of clove hitching a biner and rapping the single good strand, we tied a figure eight or overhand on a bite (sorry, I forget which), then clipped the biner to the single good strand.

The beauty of this rigging is that you can rap both strands or only the "good" strand and still remain safe. This does require pulling the damaged strand to retrieve the ropes. (in the case of canyoneering, this would not be a damaged strand but rather a pull cord.)

So the question is why wouldn't canyoneering adopt similar rigging for single strand rappels?

http://www.mountaineeringmethodology...npram01_cb.jpg

[moab mark]

He didn't use a biner block. He used a figure 8 rappeling device as his block. His problem was he didn't lock it off.
http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyo...figure-8-block

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[Iceaxe]

^^^Similar theory, similar failure, similar question.

Why take some simple and make it complicated?

[hank moon]

Is there not a safe, simple alternative that provides the advantages of a biner block yet ensures the security of the person rappelling?

Techniques may be made safe-ER but never safe, so no, there is no way to ensure the security of the person rappelling (though it can be made fairly safe under the right conditions).

Reepschnur is a valid SRT rappel technique, but does not necessarily increase security for the rappeller. Can you tell us in detail: a) when security might be increased and b) when it wouldn't ? Way more interesting than yawning through one of my descriptions :-).

[SlickRock]

Okay... My point is that an inordinate number of failures continue to occur when people attempt to rap single line. So I'm asking whether a better or safer or more secure system is being over looked. And yes, "better" is a relative term. But apparently there is not a better solution- as one has not been presented.

My contribution for discussion was the seldom discussed Reepschnur. I'm not necessarily advocating it's use, much less it's use over a biner block, really I'm soliciting alternatives that provides the advantages of a single line rap without the catastrophic consequences that are specific to and much too frequently associated with single line raps.

Look, I'm no canyoneering expert, but since 2000 I've taken a week off each year and drop down 7-8 Zion canyons. I get about 30 days a year of trad climbing and rap most of the routes. I've seen my share of rap stations, newbies trying hard to kill themselves, and a whole range of good, bad and ugly discussion on the blogs.

Asked of me... when security might be increased and when it wouldn't. Security was lost when folks moved away from the standard double strand rap.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can already hear it... all the ways you can get stuck on rappel and unable to escape the rope.

While true, most Zion canyons, those that most people are ever likely to descend, don't really require the single strand method. Sure there are a few pools where paying out just the correct amount of rope pays off. But we've seen rangers fall from the last rap in Imlay and this guy Nick Smith, presumably competent at rappelling also fall on single strand.

Solution: #1) Make your raps double stranded.

I didn't know a different way for many years, many canyons, including Kolob, Imlay - but not the final Heaps rap (okay, there are exceptions).

#2) Take several different rope lengths into the canyon.

Say one 25-30 ft dynamic 8 mil rope for all those 12-15 ft drops. It coils in a millisecond and clips to my harness. A dynamic rope handles so nice and one that short doesn't get weighed down with water.

Is it really that difficult for a group of four to carry a 60, 140 and a 200 depending on the canyon?

#3) One of the problems rapping double in the canyons, especially for lightweight people, is that the rope can be difficult to feed through the belay device. Small feather light climbers never have this problem on the cliff. Why can't some enterprising rope manufacturer come up with a rope that handles as well as dry dynamic climbing rope but in the wet canyons?

Clearly good judgement is all that is needed. Barring that, we'd see fewer falls if people stuck to a double strand.

[hank moon]

Asked of me... when security might be increased and when it wouldn't. Security was lost when folks moved away from the standard double strand rap.

My intent was to solicit comments that specifically address the relative security of the Reepschnur method. Sorry that wasn't clearly communicated in my last post.

[ratagonia]

Okay... My point is that an inordinate number of failures continue to occur when people attempt to rap single line. So I'm asking whether a better or safer or more secure system is being over looked. And yes, "better" is a relative term. But apparently there is not a better solution- as one has not been presented.

Interesting
assertion.

Please provide your evidence for evaluation.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

Interesting
assertion.

Please provide your evidence for evaluation.

Tom

Interesting to browse through the available accident literature and read the causes of rappel accidents.

Compare Zion published SAR callouts for accidents involving rappels and how many are single versus double strand accidents.

Here's a couple examples from ANAM:

http://publications.americanalpinecl...dequate-Anchor

http://publications.americanalpinecl...dequate-Anchor

This type of rappel accident cause wasn't really on the radar if you go back a few years. As the technique is used, so is it misused.

Not like double rope rappels don't have their own issues.

Plenty of ways to screw either one up.

Be interesting to compile the data and see the trends, but, hard to put numbers to the occurrence rate per opportunity for each rappel type.

[ratagonia]

Interesting to browse through the available accident literature and read the causes of rappel accidents.

Compare Zion published SAR callouts for accidents involving rappels and how many are single versus double strand accidents.

Here's a couple examples from ANAM:

http://publications.americanalpinecl...dequate-Anchor

http://publications.americanalpinecl...dequate-Anchor

This type of rappel accident cause wasn't really on the radar if you go back a few years. As the technique is used, so is it misused.

Not like double rope rappels don't have their own issues.

Plenty of ways to screw either one up.

Be interesting to compile the data and see the trends, but, hard to put numbers to the occurrence rate per opportunity for each rappel type.

Plenty
of ways to screw up out there.

Both of the ANAM articles - well, we all see what we want to see, don't we. What I see is people using techniques they are not familiar with, and making an error. Go figure.

But, of course, there are also plenty of accidents of people using SRT who are quite experienced with it.

BUT, yes, quite a few SRT accidents are people using it for the first time, or close to it.

When I read ANAM, I see plenty examples of people screwing up DRT where SRT would have worked better. SAD.

---

Then again, Nick is experienced with SRT, and screwed up. Good to be lucky.

To paraphrase Freud: sometimes a screwup is just a screwup.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

Both of the ANAM articles - well, we all see what we want to see, don't we.

That's part of the problem...hard to be objective.

Both DRT and SRT have their issues.

Is one more inherently dangerous? Hard to see data that supports either opinion.

What would be expected is...as more people use, say, SRT, then more people are going to screw it up. And, discover new and exciting ways to screw it up.

Makes sense to have a good safety protocol regardless of the chosen rappel method. Have an active check of the system prior to launch. Works for both.

Personally, I think sometimes adding complexity adds risk. When you rig for contingency or you add a block to a system (or a fiddlestick), that adds some complexity. Does that complexity reduce risk? Sure, in some situations.

Humans aren't mistake proof. Pay attention out there!