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Thread: Global Warming? I don't know what to believe.

  1. #41

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    NCAA cooked the books on climate change.

    http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/...r-charges.html
    LOL...I think you mean NOAA. The only thing the NCAA cooks up is the supposed academic achievements of star players from prestigious universities...<cough, cough> UNC - Rashad McCants <cough,cough>....ugh sorry about that. Nasty flu going around.

    Anyways, it's garbage like this that makes me second guess the GW theory. And by the way, it IS still considered a THEORY by everybody in the scientific community, even though the media likes to throw that term around as an accepted fact.
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  4. #43
    Even in conservative states that have glaciers, especially in Alaska, people believe in Global Warming because they can actually see it.

    And by the way, it IS still considered a THEORY by everybody in the scientific community
    Not so. It is actually scientifically impossible to add greenhouse gases into any atmosphere and to not cause warming. Otherwise the earth would have the same temperature as the Moon since both are approximate equal distances from the sun. The average temperature on the moon is about 0F, which is about the same as the North Pole.

    Greenhouse gases aren't really a bad thing in themselves as without them, day time temperatures would be around 224F and night-time temperatures would be around -298F. This is not a theory.

    Very few scientists would argue that warming isn't occurring or that it wouldn't occur with more greenhouse gases. What they tend to argue about is how much effect extra greenhouse gases would add since burning hydrocarbons only adds a small percentage to the atmosphere. The small percentage scientist that say that it won't effect temperatures that much claim that the difference is negligible since greenhouse gases only make a very small percentage of the atmosphere.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Even in conservative states that have glaciers, especially in Alaska, people believe in Global Warming because they can actually see it.
    Scott, you keep mentioning northern hemisphere examples. Just out of curiosity, do you have southern hemisphere examples? Because I heard the glaciers are increasing in the southern hemisphere...

  6. #45
    As the original poster, now you know why I'm confused and still am.

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    Are we there yet?

  7. #46
    Because I heard the glaciers are increasing in the southern hemisphere...
    Glaciers are shrinking in almost all areas that have temperatures rising above freezing, including in the Southern Hemisphere.

    What you may be thinking of is Antarctic sea ice, rather that glaciers. Antarctic sea ice has increased in recent years. Some areas on the Antarctic Ice Sheet have also increased, but temperatures there never reach freezing.

    It is true that if the ice caps melted, the sea level would rise about 216 feet, but there is actually no chance of this anytime soon. At the South Pole, for example, the temperature has never risen above 10F since records have been taken. It would have to warm 22 degrees to just to reach freezing, which almost certainly isn't going to happen, at least not for a very, very long time.

    Many people over-exaggerate the danger in this regard. Unless something incredibly catastrophic happens, there is no chance of the ice sheets completely melting or even coming close to that. They may shrink some, but they will not be melting away anytime soon. It would take a huge catastrophic event to do that and we probably wouldn't survive it anyway.

    Sea level could rise a few feet, which would not be good for many areas, but it won't rise 216 feet.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  8. #47
    Say what you will, but I still contend that anthropogenic global warming is a theory. Otherwise, why did the earth cool during the 1970's, when the media warned of an impending ice age?

    And why has the earth undergone numerous episodes of warming prior to the industrial revolution, when fossil fuels were not being used on a massive scale?

    How did the last ice age end? Warming, right? Were cave men burning coal?
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  9. #48

  10. Likes Slot Machine liked this post
  11. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by hank moon View Post

    I read this. It brings up very compelling evidence. Most of it irrefutable.

    But Earth's warming since the industrial revolution isn't an uninterrupted straight line upwards. There have been dips where the climate has cooled (1970's), and 2016 was basically flat. So therein lie my doubts:

    If GW is attributed to humans, why is it not a straight line up? Why the dips? Why the cooling in the 70's?

    Why wasn't 2016 the warmest year ever, since there were more fossil fuel consumers in 2016 than any other time in history?
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  12. Likes twotimer liked this post
  13. #50
    I feel a bit sorry for those of you that have future concerns that have to (or want to) worry about this. I never had any kids, the the entire universe, as far as I'm concerned, will exist for the next 30-40 years, if I'm lucky. From now until then I'll keep living like Caligula...thick steaks and climate controlled comfort. After I check out...good luck to Mother Earth and all it's inhabitants.

    I would imagine that it's people like me that gum up the works for those beating the drum about doing something drastic in regards to us pesky humans and all the havoc wreak. Rather ironic, isn't it?...those that are pumping out zero replacement humans are the problem.

    Anyway...when I can start painting entire exteriors here in Denver between December and February, then perhaps I'll entertain some concern.
    So appealing, yet so repulsive at the same time.

  14. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    I read this. It brings up very compelling evidence. Most of it irrefutable.

    But Earth's warming since the industrial revolution isn't an uninterrupted straight line upwards. There have been dips where the climate has cooled (1970's), and 2016 was basically flat. So therein lie my doubts:

    If GW is attributed to humans, why is it not a straight line up? Why the dips? Why the cooling in the 70's?

    Why wasn't 2016 the warmest year ever, since there were more fossil fuel consumers in 2016 than any other time in history?
    Yeah, and it's rather strange that global warming seems to wander around the planet.
    So appealing, yet so repulsive at the same time.

  15. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    Why wasn't 2016 the warmest year ever, since there were more fossil fuel consumers in 2016 than any other time in history?
    2016 was the hottest year ever. It's the third record breaking year in a row:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ear-on-record/

    Deb

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  17. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    Say what you will, but I still contend that anthropogenic global warming is a theory. Otherwise, why did the earth cool during the 1970's, when the media warned of an impending ice age?

    And why has the earth undergone numerous episodes of warming prior to the industrial revolution, when fossil fuels were not being used on a massive scale?

    How did the last ice age end? Warming, right? Were cave men burning coal?
    As far as I know, no one has ever said that all climate changes are caused by humans. There are lots of factors that cause the climate to change. Just some of them are greenhouse gases, sunspots, solar iridescence, volcanoes, vegetation, fires, continental drift, tilt of the axis, etc. In fact, billions of years from now the earth will get cooked and absorbed by the sun, unless you believe divine intervention will stop it.

    It is well known that the earth has been warmer in the past and long before humans existed. In fact, even though the continents have moved it is also known that dinosaurs existed below the Antarctic Circle, which if they still existed, they couldn't live today.

    In the course of the Earth's history, we are actually still in an ice age right now.

    So, without any human intervention, the climate has been changing for billions of years. Just because something exists without humans doesn't mean that humans can't effect it. A volcano is a tiny little speck on a globe, but a volcanic eruption does cause the climate to change. If so, why wouldn't humans be able to change it?
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  18. Likes Sandstone Addiction, rockgremlin liked this post
  19. #54
    If we had better science programs in our country, then we could all interpret the data easily.

    But wait! The data on this topic is really, REALLY easy to interpret. Global increases in temperature over the past 50 years are directly tied to atmospheric CO2 levels, which are directly linked to the burning of fossil fuels. I feel sorry for those that don't have the brainpower to put those three puzzle pieces together.

    That authorless article from a mediocre news outlet is meaningless. If it were really groundbreaking, somebody with a sense of journalistic pride would attach their name to the top.

    So, the debate isn't if the phenomenon is caused by man. (Your brain is broken if you think that is debatable.) The debate today is, what should be done about it, if anything?

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    "The great thing about science is that it is true weather or not you believe in it." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

  20. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    LOL...I think you mean NOAA. The only thing the NCAA cooks up is the supposed academic achievements of star players from prestigious universities...<cough, cough> UNC - Rashad McCants <cough,cough>....
    Damn you spell check.

    FWIW - I did originally type NOAA into my phone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Very few scientists would argue that warming isn't occurring or that it wouldn't occur with more greenhouse gases. What they tend to argue about is how much effect extra greenhouse gases would add since burning hydrocarbons only adds a small percentage to the atmosphere.
    ^^^THIS^^^

    The real question is would trading in the gas guzzling bad ass Corvette for a strawberry douche powered Toyota Prius really make a difference to global warming.


  21. Likes twotimer, rockgremlin liked this post
  22. #56
    So I have DDavis telling me 2016 is the hottest on record, ever....then Scott is telling me we're still in an ice age.

    Not to mention...given 20 minutes and Google, I could pull up a bunch of articles simultaneously proving and disproving anthropogenic GW.

    And Scott -- doesn't the term "anthropogenic" specifically mean "human caused?"

    Confused yet?


    To further muddy the waters, I give you the Global Warming Hiatus -- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...16EF000417/pdf

    So the Earth didn't warm at a slower rate for the last 13 years -- it just "redistributed" the heat better? What the hell are we supposed to believe? Just sounds like convenient rebranding to me.
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  23. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post

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    Yale University disagrees with you: http://e360.yale.edu/digest/carbon_e...oupled_economy


    Is Yale University a good enough source?
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  24. #58
    Boy, this one sure gets people all gnarled out! It's occurred to me that those that doubt it are calm and those that advocate it are angry and insulting...not all, of course, but it sure doesn't bode well for a persuasive argument.

    For the sake of peace, I personally declare and BELIEVE that global warming is indeed happening. There...now I'm pierced, tattooed, dreadlocked and fit in with the nodding comrades!

    So appealing, yet so repulsive at the same time.

  25. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by twotimer View Post
    Boy, this one sure gets people all gnarled out! It's occurred to me that those that doubt it are calm and those that advocate it are angry and insulting...not all, of course, but it sure doesn't bode well for a persuasive argument.

    For the sake of peace, I personally declare and BELIEVE that global warming is indeed happening. There...now I'm pierced, tattooed, dreadlocked and fit in with the nodding comrades!


    LOL...It's a hot button topic that's for certain. People get so incensed about it, and I still wonder why? I can appreciate both sides of the debate.I like to say that I align more closely with an objective approach, and most of what Scott P says really resonates with me.

    My stance on GW has gone through a progression that can be illustrated with the following rudimentary list:

    1. (High School) ---> GW is a hoax.
    2. (Early college years) ---> GW is a scam.
    3. (Approaching college graduation) ---> OK, maybe there's something to this.
    4. (Circa 2006) ---> So it's real, but is it necessarily our fault?
    5. (Circa 2012) ---> Wait, they switched it to "Climate Change" now? Hmmmm, sounds convenient.
    6. (Circa 2016) ---> Warming slowed down eh? Howcome this isn't front page news?
    7. Now ---> Warming? Is there anything we can possibly do to reverse it? If not, then why freak out about it....???
    hu·bris
    /(h)yo͞obrəs/

    noun

    1. A personality quality of extreme or foolish pride.
    2. Dangerous overconfidence, often combined with arrogance.



  26. #60
    So I have DDavis telling me 2016 is the hottest on record, ever....then Scott is telling me we're still in an ice age.
    Both are correct. The emphasis is on "recorded". Unless of course the dinosaurs were a whole lot smarter than we thought they were.

    Although it is known that the Earth was warmer (or colder) in the past, there are no recorded weather readings beyond the past few hundred years. For example, no one could tell you what the exact daily temperature every single day in the year one million years ago, but we can tell what the climate was like from fossil records and other indicators.

    There are many ways to do this. Ice cores in Antarctica go back about 1.5 million years. Ice has trapped air bubbles and dust particles. If you wanted to know what the CO2 levels in the atmosphere were, say one million years ago, you would pull a syringed air sample out of a bubble in the ice that corresponds to that age. The air trapped in the ice one million years ago is still the same air that you pull out with a syringe.

    Of course, 1.5 million years is really a blink of an eye in geologic terms. Besides ice core samples, there are several other ways to construct climate records. Without going into too much detail, some of the methods are ocean sediment (sediments have been deposited at the bottom of the ocean for millions of years), calcium carbonate deposits, evidence of tree pollen (no tree pollen = too cold or too dry for trees, at least since the existence of trees), etc.

    Of course, sometimes it's really easy to tell what the climate was in certain point at time. For example, here is a photo I took of huge petrified logs in the middle of the desert in Utah:



    Since the log is in the Chinle Formation is from the late Triassic, we can come to the conclusion that the climate in the late Triassic at this location is different from what it is now.

    It is also known from the fossil record that mass extinctions occurred at the end of the Permian due to high carbon dioxide levels in the ocean. A lot of species (estimated at 95%) disappeared in the fossil record, and it is also known that few fish survived since the fossil record in the late Triassic is very uniform, which indicates that few fish species survived the extinction. That said though, some other species thrived, such as the trees of which remains are visible in the photo. Obviously, none of this was caused by humans.

    So, there are ways of putting together past climate conditions even though there was no one there recording conditions.

    Of course, if anyone here believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, disregard this entire post.

    Boy, this one sure gets people all gnarled out! It's occurred to me that those that doubt it are calm and those that advocate it are angry and insulting...not all, of course, but it sure doesn't bode well for a persuasive argument.
    Who are you referring to? No one in this conversation has been angry or insulting.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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