Obama to declare Bears Ears National Monument in Utah

[Scott P]

FYI - all references to the Black Hole hike and trailheads have been erased. You can still pull off the road and park at both the upper and lower trailheads, but all signage and the kiosk have been removed. Much of the large upper trailhead parking has been reclaimed and all the fire rings have been removed and erased. In other words there is nothing left to identify the trailheads other than a wide spot in the highway.

Huh? Why?

The sign of death halfway down the approach canyon is still there.

I'd be curious to know if removing the trailheads cut down on SAR. I'd almost be willing to bet they would increase SAR from hikers entering the wrong drainage and getting cliffed out.

I believe it’s more than SAR that is the issue. There have been some SAR rescues in the Black Hole, but unless things have changed very recently, the San Juan County Sheriff’s Office is quite hostile towards hikers and canyoneers. The office views them all as “environmental wackos”. So, the San Juan County Sheriff’s Office is known for removing trailhead signs for hikers and canyoneers while at the same time posting designated ATV trail signs in closed areas such as the Glen Canyon National Recreation Area.

And no, I’m not joking or trying to be funny; nor is this merely speculation.

[accadacca]

I saw this old thread in the "similar threads" section below: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...onal-Monuments

[accadacca]

More restrictions like this will be coming...

[jman]

Good job Utah conservatives. YOU did this.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4784759-1...-block-road-to

If you are a conservative and support this - shame on you.

I'm furious.


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[madsjim]

Jman, follow the links in the article. Although they must allow the easement, they only shutdown access to about 100 yards of unmaintaned road (it appears to be no more than an ATV trail). The public areas accesed by the locked off section are still accessible through the Butler Wash road.

This has nothing to do conservative politics and is quite tame. No need to make it more than it is considering that the article points out that the the easement requires it remain open and the county is working on opening it back up.

[jman]

Jman, follow the links in the article. Although they must allow the easement, they only shutdown access to about 100 yards of unmaintaned road (it appears to be no more than an ATV trail). The public areas accesed by the locked off section are still accessible through the Butler Wash road.

This has nothing to do conservative politics and is quite tame. No need to make it more than it is considering that the article points out that the the easement requires it remain open and the county is working on opening it back up.

I did.

And sure it's not the end all and you are right as it is "tame", as you say.

And yes, the easement allows for continued access. But here's the thing that kills me with private sells, (especially in pristine areas) once it's in private hands...it's gone forever.

Just curious madsjim, have you visited this particular area? I did about 4 months ago and it's a shame i can get a trespassing ticket in the desert now.

It's one to thing have pit toilets or fenced off areas in areas that I like, heck I can even deal with huge crowds, but to block of access completely due to a private sell, something is wrong.


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[uintafly]

I did.

And sure it's not the end all and you are right as it is "tame", as you say.

And yes, the easement allows for continued access. But here's the thing that kills me with private sells, (especially in pristine areas) once it's in private hands...it's gone forever.

Just curious madsjim, have you visited this particular area? I did about 4 months ago and it's a shame i can get a trespassing ticket in the desert now.

It's one to thing have pit toilets or fenced off areas in areas that I like, heck I can even deal with huge crowds, but to block of access completely due to a private sell, something is wrong.


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Private sells account for about 75% of the reason I oppose any federal lands being turned over to the state. If the state had their way, this would be a drop in the bucket.

[accadacca]

Rep. Chaffetz Vows To Investigate Utah Park's Tweet Welcoming Bears Ears Monument



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000003

[Brian in SLC]

More restrictions like this will be coming...

Based on what?

And, what part of that do you find overly restrictive?

Did you notice an increase in restrictions after GSENM? And, if so, what were they?

What part of the Executive Order drives the restrictions that you refer to?

Are you planning on getting involved in the new management plan for the monument?

[devo_stevo]

Rep. Chaffetz Vows To Investigate Utah Park's Tweet Welcoming Bears Ears Monument



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000003

Freaking stupid that this is even an issue. What the hell is wrong with this world that everyone needs to get so upset over things that totally don't matter while completely ignoring all of the problems staring us in the face. So what if the rangers at Bryce Canyon saved a spot for the maps of the area long before it became official.

This drives me crazy.

[hank moon]

Freaking stupid that this is even an issue. What the hell is wrong with this world that everyone needs to get so upset over things that totally don't matter while completely ignoring all of the problems staring us in the face. So what if the rangers at Bryce Canyon saved a spot for the maps of the area long before it became official.

This drives me crazy.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4967844-1...weet-welcoming


Chaffetz said in an interview that the questions about Bryce Canyon's tweet are at the "very bottom of the list" of investigations he's launched as oversight committee chairman, but he noted he couldn't ignore the message from the national park because it could indicate the Obama White House misled Utah's elected officials.


"Maybe they were just hopeful," Chaffetz said, "but they regularly complain about lack of resources and more money for maintenance budgets and this is a small item but I want to know if there was communication and were they being truthful with the governor and the delegation."

[devo_stevo]

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4967844-1...weet-welcoming


Chaffetz said in an interview that the questions about Bryce Canyon's tweet are at the "very bottom of the list" of investigations he's launched as oversight committee chairman, but he noted he couldn't ignore the message from the national park because it could indicate the Obama White House misled Utah's elected officials.


"Maybe they were just hopeful," Chaffetz said, "but they regularly complain about lack of resources and more money for maintenance budgets and this is a small item but I want to know if there was communication and were they being truthful with the governor and the delegation."

Right. So if HE wants to know, don't waste the tax payer's time and money on this. Maybe just try being a nice guy and ask them (it sounds like he already did that), then take their word for it.

This is a non-issue, and honestly should just be ignored. Nobody was hurt and there is no scandal here.

[Iceaxe]

Chaffetz should be kicked in the nuts for even attempting to make this an issue.

/end discussion

[Brian in SLC]

Chaffetz should be kicked in the nuts for even attempting to make this an issue.

/end discussion

It sounds like your advocating violence against a United States Congressman.

The rest of us bused in out-of-staters just yelled at him to do his job.

Ha ha.

[accadacca]

Based on what?

And, what part of that do you find overly restrictive?

Did you notice an increase in restrictions after GSENM? And, if so, what were they?

What part of the Executive Order drives the restrictions that you refer to?

Are you planning on getting involved in the new management plan for the monument?

Nothing in particular here, although I don't like to carry my own poo.

Things I find restrictive are permits.

[Scott P]

Things I find restrictive are permits.

With the exception of the Black Hole and the Natural Bridges National Monument hikes you already have to get a permit to go to the popular canyons on the Cedar Mesa (now Bears Ears NM). The permit system came before the monument and has been in effect for years. I wouldn't expect much to change in this regard, though it is possible that the Black Hole could require one sometime in the future (which is still preferable to the county sheriff's wishes to close the whole thing).

[Brian in SLC]

Nothing in particular here, although I don't like to carry my own poo.

Ditto that! But, I do it.

Rest stop pit stop what ev's. Makes it easy.

But (or, is that "butt"), I've done numerous overnighters in the Escalante and not had to. Ditto canyons I've done in Cedar Mesa that require permits.

The Escalante has a sign out at the trailhead thing. Perfect. Easy. I don't have to go to the visitor's center and wait in line. No impact to me.

Indian Creek has had more restrictive camping permits (effecting climbers) for some time now. They (we) adjust. I don't anticipate any change to that with a monument designation.

I worked on a planning committee years ago with Ralph Becker with regard to Indian Creek. Fun process.

[jman]

Not that it matters too much at this point, but the Salt Lake City County Mayor recently said that the OR show won't be bailing on the contract (they tried). So that means they will be here all of 2018 too.

So 2019 is when they will be at their new home...(until they come back a few years later).


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[accadacca]

"If you're giving me an ultimatum here on the phone, then the answer is I guess we're going to have to part ways," the governor told executives from some of the major companies in the show during a conference call.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43328857&nid...must-part-ways

Comment from Facebook:
The state of Utah, 66% is federal land. It is the third highest in the country, following only Alaska and Nevada. Colorado is less than 23% and Ct, I think is less than 3%. So, I wrote three of the companies, I gave them these facts and suggested that they were, based on the facts and their letters which stated that Utah wasn't supporting federal lands, that they were very incorrect. They didn't care. They answered, but they still, even with the facts, persist in their dishonesty. Utahans, and those like me who love Utah, should be writing to the companies and let them know that we can see through their dishonesty, or at best, lack of logic.

[Scott P]

Comment from Facebook:
The state of Utah, 66% is federal land. It is the third highest in the country, following only Alaska and Nevada. Colorado is less than 23% and Ct, I think is less than 3%. So, I wrote three of the companies, I gave them these facts and suggested that they were, based on the facts and their letters which stated that Utah wasn't supporting federal lands, that they were very incorrect. They didn't care. They answered, but they still, even with the facts, persist in their dishonesty. Utahans, and those like me who love Utah, should be writing to the companies and let them know that we can see through their dishonesty, or at best, lack of logic.

The above is actually dishonest. Colorado is actually 36% public land, but the eastern 1/3 of the state is pancake flat and has almost no public land.

It is also worth mentioning that per capita, Utah actually has more private land per person than most states. Only some of the less populated states such as Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, and a few others have more private land per capita.

Also, people always say that it is unfair that Utah has all this public land, while the eastern states have little. This is indeed true, but if you hate public land so much, why not just move back east?