Anyone Interested in Doing Orderville July 26th With 2 Newbies?

[eskimomo]

My friend and I intend/intended to do Orderville from the top down on July 26th. However, it's becoming clear that without gear it is basically impossible. No one will rent to us. We both have backpacking experience and some rock climbing experience but neither of us claim to be experience canyoneers. From what I understand, Orderville shouldn't be too difficult, even for the inexperienced, but without gear it's obviously not possible. I have a three person permit and would love to have an experienced person go with us who wouldn't mind sharing/letting us use some gear (maybe even just a rope). We would definitely pay for a couple of rounds at the end of the day.

[Slot Machine]

Maybe helpful-

The first time we went through Orderville we had 1 biner, 1 harness, 1 ATC and 1 rope. The drops are short enough that we could share the harness. Total cost... about $100.

[Sombeech]

I went through Orderville last summer for the first time, we didn't even have harnesses, we just had a 60' rope I believe and some gloves. (Please don't use my quoted rope length as preparation!)

We went with some bigger guys too. I think there were maybe 4 rappels or so? Most of them could be walked down on the rope with maybe a few feet of free hanging sections down low to the water.

Rope and garden gloves are all we had, gear wise. I'd say go for it.

[dakotabelliston]

Orderville seams to be fairly basic & a straight forward canyon. This time of year you know it has been ran through dozens of times and you most likely will not have to set up any rappels. (I have not run it myself...yet). As long as you have basic rappelling skills you should be able to run this canyon. I know a lof of local climbing gyms have rappelling courses and/or there are multiple places where you could go and practice your skills before hand. If that fails I know ZAC offers a basics course but I'm not sure the cost. With 3 people you could easily share equipment (1 harness, 1 belay device, 1 rope). After you canyoneer once you will want to continue anyhow and you'll need to buy all your own gear. Its very addicting.

On a side note, and probably frowned upon by most people. When I wanted to get into canyoneering & climbing I couldn't find anyone to take me out. I started researching techniques on youtube & then practiced them. If you have common sense anyone
can figure out basic rappelling. If you feel comfortable you could easily do the same as I did and start researching. Look up: Rappelling double strand, rappelling set up, rappelling with ATC, and fireman belaying.

I will be in Oregon this weekend. If I was around I'd love to run you down the canyon since it's on my to do list. Best of luck !!! Stay safe & have fun.

[kaniukr]

Hi Dakotabelliston, I have the same question as this poster although I'm getting permits for October 1 if you'd like to come then - and I already have a spare shuttle reserved. I will have done the ZAC one-day course the day before, and my friend from the UK has more rappelling experience, although it's quite a few years since he last did any.

Or if anyone else is interested - I'll get a permit for them. They become available next week.

[ratagonia]

If you have common sense anyone can figure out basic rappelling.

This is kind of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

"Anyone can figure out basic rappelling" - I can think of lots of people that cannot. Even some who have tried and cannot. Even some you would consider sensible, competent etc. There are lots of people who "have common sense" and cannot figure it out by watching Youtoob vids.

So please. Do not make stupid statements like this. It shows a lack of understanding on your part, and nothing more.

Tom


*no true Scotsman intro from wikipedia:

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.^[1] When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).

[ratagonia]

I went through Orderville last summer for the first time, we didn't even have harnesses, we just had a 60' rope I believe and some gloves. (Please don't use my quoted rope length as preparation!)

We went with some bigger guys too. I think there were maybe 4 rappels or so? Most of them could be walked down on the rope with maybe a few feet of free hanging sections down low to the water.

Rope and garden gloves are all we had, gear wise. I'd say go for it.

I fully support the idea that SOME experienced persons who know what they are doing can do it without harnesses and devices, handlining each obstacle.

Perhaps surprisingly, this does not mean that inexperienced persons with only a small idea of what they are doing can do it in that style.

But I don't think that is what you meant. It IS Zion's easiest technical canyon. It takes a little bit of knowledge, but not a whole lot. That the OP is asking about it indicates a lack of recklessness that is refreshing and helpful.

I would, of course, recommend wearing helmets at least at the few technical obstacles. Bike helmets would do.