Birch Hollow down Orderville...

[desotodave]

I have a permit for the 2nd of June for Orderville. Our plan was to do Birch Hollow, and then go down Orderville for the exit. Right now I see there is tremendous water flow, and I would not even get a permit. This year we had decent Snowpack, just wondering what thoughts everyone has on what 2 weeks from now will look like. I will have 3 experienced strong canyoneers, 3 of my kids12-14 who have all been canyoneering for 3-4 years (but they are skinny and do get cold easy) and 2 relatively newbies.

Lets go!!

[2065toyota]

I would take wetsuits or just use the wild wind exit and still do birch

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[Taylor]

We did Englestead on Friday, exiting up Orderville. Our plan had been to go down canyon but... I highly recommend setting up a shuttle at the end of the 4wd road in Orderville, which was graded last week and is in the best shape I've ever seen it. I wouldn't count on the Narrows being open in two weeks.

[2065toyota]

I prefer the wild wind exit. Takes less time that setting up a shuttle and you don't need 2 vehicles

[Taylor]

I did Birch solo once and used the Wild Wind exit. I remember it wasn't fun. Need someone to show me the trail I guess because my legs were cut up from the bushwhacking.

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[2065toyota]

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...ight=wild+wind

[Scott P]

This year we had decent Snowpack, just wondering what thoughts everyone has on what 2 weeks from now will look like.

There's a good chance that it will be open by then, but no guarantee. Right now the daily peak has been a little lower each day since May 10.

Even if it does drop below 150 CFS, a life jacket for the children might be a good idea.

[Iceaxe]

If I'm betting, my money is on flow below 150 cfs on June 2nd. Wetsuits will be required for anyone that gets cold easy. A warm fleece in a dry bag is a must have item for everyone in the group.

For small, experienced and efficient teams exiting out Orderville after Birch is not a problem. For large, slow, novice or inefficient teams exiting out Orderville is a problem because you will chew up a bunch of time in Birch Hollow. If everyone in your group is standing around at all the rappels waiting for the group to finish before proceeding to the next obstacle consider yourself in the latter group and understand you have a good chance of running out of daylight. When you hit Orderville evaluate your time and exit out Wild Wind if time might become an issue as you still have 6 or 7 hours of hiking ahead of you if you turn downstream.

[harness man]

EARLY start recommended...
unless you like waiting in line.

[whansen]

This is a pretty cool site for seeing what the predicted flow rate is on rivers. The link takes you straight to the North Fork.
http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/station/fl...plot.cgi?NFVU1
The table view makes it easier to see. Saturday my group had a permit to do Englestead but we knew from looking at this site it would not be even close to 150.

[Iceaxe]

EARLY start recommended...
unless you like waiting in line.

^^^THIS^^

Getting jammed up behind a large group or a group of beginners is the kiss of death for fast and efficient.

[desotodave]

Know what you mean. A couple years ago we took my kids through Pine Creek, and ran into 2 groups of 20 somethings ahead of us. It was on a day when pine creek was a full swimmer on a cold day. The 2 groups ahead of us were actually 1 group pretending to be 2, and were being led by a guide. They were painfully slow, and fortunately let us play through. All of my little ones were much better than any of them. Needless to say we never saw them again

[Scott P]

The river is down to 163 CFS. It should drop below 150 CFS in a few days.

[Scott P]

The river is now below 150. The canyons draining into the Narrows below Orderville should be open soon.

[Iceaxe]

The Narrows don't open until flow is below 120 cfs, Orderville and below open at 150 cfs.

[desotodave]

The Narrows don't open until flow is below 120 cfs, Orderville and below open at 150 cfs.

Thanks

[Scott P]

It's now open below Big Springs!

[dakotabelliston]

The flow rate has been dropping quickly. I was supposed to do Englestead down orderville last weekend & it was 154 !!! Yeah we got skunked by 4 CFS. Doing birchhollow I would leave at first light !!! Last year we planned on doing birchhollow & had a car spot. We hit the canyon at 9 am & got caught behind 2 Guide groups (ZAC & Ponderosa). Our day turned into a 12 hour day including waiting at numerous rappels for up to an hour. Ruined our day.

I hit up Echo & pinecreek last week & the water was as cold as ice. I don't think Orderville will be nearly as cold as those but I would definitely recommend a full wetsuit for everyone this time of year including Neo socks. Have a blast, your trip is coming up soon !!!

[desotodave]

So we went Thursday and all was good! The ranger told us to take THICK full wetsuits or we would surely die!! So we did. We ended up carrying them the whole way. Put on our neoprene socks and was just fine. Had a great trip.

[ratagonia]

I prefer the wild wind exit. Takes less time that setting up a shuttle and you don't need 2 vehicles

Went up the NEW WWH exit, which does not go up Wild Wind Hollow. Let's call it the Wild Wind Hollow Ridge exit. Pretty darn good trail up the whole way. Unfortunate that it is uphill the whole way, but dem's the breaks!

Thanks Kody for clueing me in to the new trail.

Tom