Grotto canyon by accident

[Rob L]

Well he's cleared his OP, so well done all the nay-sayers. Shame on you.

One of the ways for people to become educated in these sports is learning from the mistakes of others, and that's a very difficult thing to do. Normally we learn the hard way, and that's not so forgiving.

Rob

[twotimer]

He stated that he had ascenders...only an absolute fool would take off down a rope with complete uncertainty about it's length.

Hey Court, this is a great forum and it's quite usefull...don't be discouraged by a couple of dudes that spit at you...they frequently have done that to just about everyone here for some stupid self righteous reason or another. Being criticized for doing something truly stupid may be justified, but I personally laugh in the face of anyone that would give me a hard time over an honest mistake.

But, like I said earlier...you really should have considered the possible reaction before posting it in the first place...what good did it do anyone? Especially you? It just opened the door for the snobs. I'm glad you deleted it...maybe come back in with a different user name if that'll make you comfortable...and never mention that incident again.

[Taylor]

I was going to map out in Google Earth and check out his path...

I can recreate his route if you want...

[harness man]

Then let the education continue..
Rappelling on 6mm rope?
On purpose? (As opposed to a last resort).
What good will "ascenders" do on that stuff?

[TommyBoy]

What good will "ascenders" do on that stuff?

If they are mechanical ascenders not a darn thing, if he brought something to make a prussik with, that might work, I can't remember what he said in his post.

[Sombeech]

Well, that's too bad he deleted his post. Criticism shouldn't be banned nor discouraged, but calling somebody stupid for their mistakes or lack of preparation should be discouraged.

Court, it would be appreciated if you would continue with your story here. It's unfortunate some of us who are self described as Tolerant and Open Minded, can be just the opposite. We are a mixed bag here, truly diversified with varying opinions and reactions. I think it's valuable to post your trip, including the mistakes you made, and welcome a discussion about it.

It's like the lack of wearing a helmet. Everybody knows they should be worn, but sometimes there is a newcomer to the sport who is excited to post their trip, but instead are met with harsh criticism. After all, who would wear a helmet walking through Little Wild Horse Canyon? So, helmets should be encouraged, but the lack of them shouldn't be met so harshly that the member doesn't want to post here ever again.

So, while I'm an administrator here and could probably find the original post in a database backup, I think it would be great if you would post your story again and we could all take a little lesson on courtesy and helpful feedback.

Thanks, and to those that were a little harder on your criticism, c'mon guys, let's ease up on the new members here.

[Scott P]

Criticism shouldn't be banned nor discouraged, but calling somebody stupid for their mistakes or lack of preparation should be discouraged.

Agree. Especially for a new member.

[Iceaxe]

I am not so much against soloing, as I am against publishing anything to do with this. Why publish this - just so everyone knows what a dumbass you are?

Way to make a new member feel warm and welcome. Please try to not be such an asshat next time.

[Iceaxe]

For the record I have nothing against soloing, I have done it countless times. When going solo you just have to understand the risks are much higher and proceed accordingly. Solo is the same old game but with different rules and penalties.

[Glenn]

Solo is the same old game but with different rules and penalties.

Might be my new tagline.

[hank moon]

Might be my new tagline.

How about: Solo is a very different game, but with the same old penalties*

*(e.g. death, dismemberment, paralysis, etc.)

[kiwi_outdoors]

Tom

IF the post is genuine - it shows that just because some folks have good canyoneering sense and basic technical skills - such knowledge and practice does not "rub of by osmosis" onto all the newbies. Net result is some folks may do stupid things and get hurt if it ends badly. If such practice gets worse - all Canyoneering may be banned in Zion and/or elsewhere, or else be permitted more severely? So can we do anything to improve the situation?

A big complication is that we humans are partly chemical computers, and can make bad decisions despite having good knowledge. As I did in Australia when I crashed a hang glider while car towing!

BTW - my surname is Hitchings - close enough, eh?

[2065toyota]

I'm sitting at home with a new plate and 12 screws in my leg from canyoneering accident. No apparent mistakes were made and had I been soloing, it would have been a very bad situation.

Same old saying, 'everything is good, until it isn't'

I personally think it is not smart to go solo, but everyone is entitled their own opinions. I also don't think there is ever any reason to go solo, as partners to go with are pretty easy to come by.

Maybe Tom's word were a little harsh and maybe should have just been said in a quiet voice and not sent out to the the forum. I know I thought the same thing he said.

[Brian in SLC]

It's not his first post. It is his first post on Bogley, and he is otherwise a public figure.

Tom

Well, according to Courtney Purcell....it wasn't him. Who do you think it is, Tom?

The mystery thickin's...is there even a rope, "still hanging there right now"?

Was this a troll?

[cp0915]

Well, according to Courtney Purcell....it wasn't him. Who do you think it is, Tom?

The mystery thickin's...is there even a rope, "still hanging there right now"?

Was this a troll?

I did not post the TR nor was I a participant in the epic it describes. Considering that I've not posted on Bogley in years, it's sort of creepy that someone chose me as the subject of their project. Should I be flattered or appalled?

Courtney Purcell

[Ryan Marsters]

Ha. Both obvious (and apparently successful) trolling. My money's on Tom.

Quick hike up and down Twin Brothers, plus Mtn of the Sun and Deertrap S Buttress prior to Hidden? Yeah... I can think of few people capable of that kind of day. Much less with the route familiarity to complete it in said day. Actually, sounds kind of fun.

PS he would've had to ascend the 6 mm to get out of Spry on the way back from TB. He would've had to downclimb Twin Brothers without a rap. Doable, but very sketchy.

[Iceaxe]

I did not post the TR nor was I a participant in the epic it describes. Considering that I've not posted on Bogley in years, it's sort of creepy that someone chose me as the subject of their project. Should I be flattered or appalled?

Courtney Purcell

The username was "Court" so I'm guessing it was not a troll but just a new member that showed up and picked that name not knowing we already had a Courtney. And I'm guessing the user has now been run out of town because someone made a dumbass "assumption".

[nelsonccc]

Damnit, as usual I'm late to the witch burning. Did anyone screenshot the OP? Dying to read it now....

[nelsonccc]

Thanks to some over on Facebook I found it on a google webcache back up. I'm guessing troll due to the route.

[Taylor]

Here is the route:

On Saturday April 2 I sent out to do a solo linkup of some of the peaks on the East side of Zion. I started by hiking towards spry canyon and after the first rap I

bailed out right to gain the south ridge of Twin Brothers. I descended the North Ridge Of TB and then climbed Mountain of the Sun. I then hiked back south and

gained the south ridge of Deertrap.

I think it's doable...