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Thread: West Canyon - Tiger Route

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootboy View Post
    I have descended the canyon 3 times now and saw that we left no evidence of passage between descents 1 and 2. There were, however, rope grooves in 2 places after at least one subsequent exploration.
    Do you have photos of the grooves? If so, what date were the photos taken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootboy View Post
    We actually named the canyon Arch Rival. Bob was informed of this and I chalk up the discrepancy to simple error.
    Not an error. I'm not editing anything. Consider it a snapshot from the day it was written, a time when I did not know the canyon by any other name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootboy View Post
    I commend him on his attempt to respect the original name however.
    The Map is not a political tool. I simply attach the most commonly used name to each canyon. Please don't interpret my practicality as respect.

    That reminds me, if anyone sees Canyonero, could you please pass this along?

    Name:  Lick em Canyonero.jpg
Views: 232
Size:  57.0 KB

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  4. #22

    West Canyon - Tiger Route

    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    Do you have photos of the grooves? If so, what date were the photos taken?



    Not an error. I'm not editing anything. Consider it a snapshot from the day it was written, a time when I did not know the canyon by any other name.



    The Map is not a political tool. I simply attach the most commonly used name to each canyon. Please don't interpret my practicality as respect.

    That reminds me, if anyone sees Canyonero, could you please pass this along?

    Name:  Lick em Canyonero.jpg
Views: 232
Size:  57.0 KB


    I was in there only 2 weeks ago. Sorry, no photos. But the grooves are on the drop into the arch room, and immediately after the big pothole. Note that It is possible that others have been in there in the intervening time between my trips 2 and 3



    Regards,

    from one explorer to another.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  6. #23
    That reminds me, if anyone sees Canyonero, could you please pass this along?
    I think the phrased that is passed on doesn't help the conversation.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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  8. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    I think the phrased that is passed on doesn't help the conversation.
    Scott, if you went on a really cool hike, then wrote about it, then you received a bunch of email telling you to modify your writing, or that you are hurting peoples feelings, wouldn't that surprise you?

    It certainly surprised me. What business is it of their's? Why would I even begin to care about what they want me to do? I don't owe them anything, so, what would be my motive to do what they suggest? Because I honor people that passed through before us? Certainly not. Because I care deeply about future generations? Not for a moment do I think about them. Nor am I under any obligation to do so.

    Then, 5 months later, you get some chump that parrots exactly what those email said posting that you 'ought to' do this, or 'ought to' do that. Why wouldn’t you tell him to lick your balls?? I think that it is a perfectly normal reaction, considering the context.

    Really, these dudes are trying to limit what I write, while preaching a method that is one part sensible and two parts censorship. It bothers the hell out of them that we can reach those places and do those canyons. They say that those canyons will get over-crowded, but in reality, the wilderness itself is a prohibitive barrier that stops people from going there. They say that the exploration experience will get robbed from future travelers. That is also nonsense. Simply go do those canyons without reading my writing. Purity problem solved.

    Make no mistake, their method is NOT an ethic. They are silly rules imposed by their group on their group. And I don't care about those rules, nor should I.

    I wish @Canyonero were around to chime in, but he is probably cruising some low-traffic, no-content, single-minded, junior varsity censorship forum, desperately looking for something fun to read. I don't have enough middle fingers to express what I think about his thoughts, but I do have two nuts, so I hope he comes back to Bogley so that he can-

    Name:  ha-ha-lick-my-balls-thumb.jpg
Views: 239
Size:  12.8 KB
    THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
    TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD

    DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
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  10. #25
    Why wouldn’t you tell him to lick your balls??
    Because it adds nothing to the conversation, nor helps explain any viewpoint.

    Because I care deeply about future generations? Not for a moment do I think about them. Nor am I under any obligation to do so.
    I would have to disagree with this part.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  11. Likes dakotabelliston liked this post
  12. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    I would have to disagree with this part.
    Please Scott, if you are going to quote, pull the entire thought into focus. Out of context I care, in context I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    Why would I even begin to care about what they want me to do? I don't owe them anything, so, what would be my motive to do what they suggest? Because I honor people that passed through before us? Certainly not. Because I care deeply about future generations? Not for a moment do I think about them. Nor am I under any obligation to do so.
    THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
    TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD

    DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
    WWW.AMAZINGSLOTS.BLOGSPOT.COM



  13. #27
    Although I don't generally have a horse in the canyoneering race, I've got an opinion (I know, they're like a$$holes)

    When some desire a canyon to remain secret, they cannot expect it to retain their choice title. We can't have it both ways, to correctly title a secret canyon while expecting outsiders to know what it's named.

    Also, if you want it to remain secret, I would assume the incorrect name would serve this purpose better.

    I'm not taking sides, this is just an opinion from the viewing gallery.

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

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  15. #28
    ^^^THIS^^^

    Something I've learned from years of canyoneering and spraying beta is that naming rights seldom go to the first descent team. Naming rights usually go to the first person that publicly beta's the canyon. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just the way it is.

    The times I've noticed this doesn't hold true is if the original name is considered vulgar, dumb or stupid by the canyoneering community.


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  17. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    Really, these dudes are trying to limit what I write, while preaching a method that is one part sensible and two parts censorship. It bothers the hell out of them that we can reach those places and do those canyons. They say that those canyons will get over-crowded, but in reality, the wilderness itself is a prohibitive barrier that stops people from going there. They say that the exploration experience will get robbed from future travelers. That is also nonsense. Simply go do those canyons without reading my writing. Purity problem solved.

    Make no mistake, their method is NOT an ethic. They are silly rules imposed by their group on their group. And I don't care about those rules, nor should I.
    I understand the reasoning behind the "Show but don't tell" mentality. However I have absolutely no interest in practicing it because I see it as nothing more than a form a canyon guiding and I have no interest in being guided through a canyon. A big part of the thrill I get from canyoneering is if I can't figure out the problems it's my ass on the line. With "show but don't tell" there is always someone along that has solved the problems before. To me it's like taking a math test but you can look at the answer key if you get stuck. What fun is that?

    YMMV

  18. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    ^^^THIS^^^

    Something I've learned from years of canyoneering and spraying beta is that naming rights seldom go to the first descent team. Naming rights usually go to the first person that publicly beta's the canyon. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just the way it is.

    The times I've noticed this doesn't hold true is if the original name is considered vulgar, dumb or stupid by the canyoneering community.

    The next canyon I name is going to be "Shane Loves Hillary".
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  19. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    The next canyon I name is going to be "Shane Loves Hillary".
    Isn't that the one in Zions right after you go through the tunnel?

  20. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    The next canyon I name is going to be "Shane Loves Hillary".


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  22. #33
    At least we know that Slot's next first descent has to be named/renamed LMB.
    And the next one, Munchmyrug.

  23. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    They say that those canyons will get over-crowded, but in reality, the wilderness itself is a prohibitive barrier that stops people from going there.
    Actually this isn't entirely accurate, take a look at Poe, a very hard canyon with a wilderness barrier (albeit not quite as big as the one to get to West) and yet as soon as it got published there was an increase in people doing it. That's not to say its overcrowded, but it is showing signs of visitation, rope grooves, bolts, ect, and the argument to not publish isn't just about overcrowding, but changing the feel of the canyons away from a pristine state. Now that this area is being published it will change as well, maybe not to the extent that Bootboy and Canyonero think, but it will change even for those who don't read the beta.

  24. #35
    It's been my experience that many canyons see a large increase in traffic when they are first popularized with pictures, chest thumping and beta. But they have a tendency to slide back into obscurity once the cool factor begins to wear off and the next latest and greatest canyon suddenly appears on the lemming radar.

    YMMV

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  26. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBoy View Post
    Actually this isn't entirely accurate, take a look at Poe, a very hard canyon with a wilderness barrier (albeit not quite as big as the one to get to West) and yet as soon as it got published there was an increase in people doing it. That's not to say its overcrowded, but it is showing signs of visitation, rope grooves, bolts, ect, and the argument to not publish isn't just about overcrowding, but changing the feel of the canyons away from a pristine state. Now that this area is being published it will change as well, maybe not to the extent that Bootboy and Canyonero think, but it will change even for those who don't read the beta.
    Courtesy edit: the wilderness itself is a prohibitive barrier that stops most people, everyone but the very hard-core, from going there.

    Sir Tom, using too many words is the key to bad writing. I apologize for writing so well and for sacrificing the minute details.

    Anyway,

    I do see your point. Secrecy and censorship seem like flaccid ways to handle these issues in the internet age. I think education and inclusion are wiser long-term methods today, although no solution is a perfect one.

    *thoughtful tone*

    You present a problem @TommyBoy , but offer no solution. What would be your solution? The same strategy that was used in 1980?
    THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
    TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD

    DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
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  28. #37

  29. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    I do see your point. Secrecy and censorship seem like flaccid ways to handle these issues in the internet age. I think education and inclusion are wiser long-term methods today, although no solution is a perfect one.

    *thoughtful tone*

    You present a problem @TommyBoy , but offer no solution. What would be your solution? The same strategy that was used in 1980?
    I'm all about poking holes in peoples arguments, coming up with solutions, I'm not as good with that. If I come up with one though I'll let you know.

    You already know my opinion though, I'm with the secret society people, I'm just not as vocal as some of them. For me its not even about keeping people out, I just think there are enough areas that are already beta'd to keep people busy for years so leaving an area unpublished for those that like that sort of thing isn't asking a lot. I know in talking to you that a large part of your enjoyment of the sport comes with writing about it afterwards, but if you just cut the last paragraph off of your TR it would have had the same effect of sharing the experience without upsetting those who want to keep the area unpublished. This probably won't change your opinion since I think we've hashed this all out before in person, guess we'll just have to politely agree to disagree.

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  31. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    She's just explaining how long it would take her to reach orgasm, if she could have me. Unfortunately for her though, I'm already taken.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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