When yelling "Rope!"...here is a suggestion

[jman]

I was talking to a co-worker (Rob) who knows all about my adventures and canyoneering trips. He now knows about our secret places and admires that there is an "obsession" for it.

He would like to try it out one day but he says he is too out of shape (he isn't) to do it and that the "old woman" thinks it's too dangerous for him to try.

But after talking to him over the years, getting his reactions and comments from a non-canyoneer (about adventures, video edits, what-if scenarios, has been invaluable in getting an objective view from time to time.

With that context, he was telling me about his recent trip down to Moab (over Easter), where his family and about 3,000,000 other hikers were going up Negro Bill Canyon to Morning Glory Bridge.

In reverse, the canyoneering route is called the "Medieval Chamber" and starts on the top of the mesa and ends at this bridge for a grande finale. And indeed is a a grand finale! Unforgettable if you have not done it before.

Anyway, as he and his family were underneath the bridge, up by the spring, they heard some voices up above.

They got back and watched these 2 young, women canyoneers walk over to the bridge, talk, and next you know, someone yells "ROPE!!!" and as Rob described it "there was a loud clash and a bag that landed about 5 feet from a older Asian woman having her lunch!" Rob said that her face was priceless (not In a good way) and she almost sh** her pants...!

He said that the woman ran out of there so quick to the rest of the crowd, visibly upset, but unable to say anything due to the language barrier.

She was right underneath the Bridge and had no idea what "ROPE!" meant. Or, even what to expect!

It's my assumption that MOST people (outside of our circle) do not know what to do or what it means when someone yells "ROPE!".

Rob was obviously perturbed by the lack of consideration by the canyoneers and advised to me to tell others in the sport to "pay extra attention" in public settings. And to "those who are unfamiliar to your sport like me (Rob) to yell something other than 'ROPE!' Something more like "Hey, heads up guys! I'm throwing a rope over here or there! And is everyone out of the way?"

After letting his logic process in my mind for a bit, I agree!

Not every rappel needs to be a formal response and take a 5min conversation to explain, but perhaps, even just as a simple reminder, to be considerate of of those more popular rappels (heaps, Imlay, mystery, corona arch, medieval chamber, Arch Canyon (aka Johnson Canyon) bridal veil falls, and many many more) and to give those non-canyoneers a better heads-up of a projectile headed towards their head going 60mph...




Thoughts?

(Im sure I'm overthinking this but it made me pause and think of what I do in those situations).

Btw - we should be yelling "ROPE!" at every rappel regardless, as proper canyoneering etiquette would dictate, but where the general populous is, we need to be extra careful.

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[Iceaxe]

"Rope" is great when it is expected to only involve other canyoneers. But only an asshat would toss a rope into a crowded tourist hike without taking steps to make certain the landing zone is safe. I also consider tossing a rope, and tossing a rope in a rope bag to be to completely different things. One might tick you off if it hits you, while the other could do some real damage.

Medieval Chamber, Imlay, Heaps, Rock of Ages, Lomation and Mystery Canyon are a few routes just off the top of my head where "rope" is an insufficient warning.

[jman]

I would agree as well. I mean this SHOULD be common sense...

To further Rob's point, he was telling me, when he hears "rope" from above "does that mean that THEY need rope? Does that mean I should look over here or not be over there? What if I had smaller kids underneath the bridge but I was in plain sight? And would 3 seconds between the time you yell "rope" to when it hits the ground be enough time to protect my kids from this projectile? And especially in canyons, your voice will echo so I don't know if it's to the right of me or left of me, etc."



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[TommyBoy]

My personal M.O. is any time a rappel ends in a crowded tourist area you don't throw the rope you rap down with it attached to you.

I might drop it once I'm part way down if there is an obvious landing area, but if there's even a small chance of hitting someone I keep the bag with me.

[Iceaxe]

Commonsense isn't nearly as common as you would think it is.

[TommyBoy]

I think most people who have been canyoneering for a while wouldn't make a mistake like this, its most likely people who are new to the sport and maybe took a class or someone told them to always warn people below so they are acting w/o thinking and simply "following the rules". Also the way the story is written it sounds like the group yelled rope either as they were throwing the bag or mere seconds before. Even in the middle of a canyon with experienced canyoneers below who know what "rope" means this would hardly give them time to clear the area. You have to wait for people to vacate the landing zone or the warning is meaningless.

[jman]

Also the way the story is written it sounds like the group yelled rope either as they were throwing the bag or mere seconds before. Even in the middle of a canyon with experienced canyoneers below who know what "rope" means this would hardly give them time to clear the area. You have to wait for people to vacate the landing zone or the warning is meaningless.

That is the way my co-worker explained it: yelled "rope" and 3 or 4 seconds later, splat on the ground, nearly landing on a lady.

[Iceaxe]

That has always been my biggest bitch with the canyoneering schools, they teach a bunch of useful techniques, but they fail to teach the why and when they should be used.

[moab mark]

I've been doing Medieval Chamber Morning Glory a bunch lately and this is a legitimate problem there with the big crowds. Please don't drop bags at all here. People are clueless. Feed your end down. The tourist do not want to hear us yelling back and forth. (on rope etc) bring radios if with a large group. Other then Mystery this location probably has more interaction with the public then anywhere else. Especially the chance of drilling someone with a bag. Let's not screw this place up.
The new park rules have really screwed up my kiddie canyoneering only allowing 10 people. Let's not screw this one up.

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[deagol]

Maybe this is what happens in "mainstream" tourist canyons?

User-group conflict could become an issue

[Iceaxe]

If user conflict becomes an issue with Morning Glory Arch it will be canyoneers who lose, that much I can promise you.

It's up to canyoneers to police ourselves and help educate those who lack the practical knowledge. This thread is a good start.

[deagol]

yeah, that's what I would think as well....

[ratagonia]

I've been doing Medieval Chamber Morning Glory a bunch lately and this is a legitimate problem there with the big crowds. Please don't drop bags at all here. People are clueless. Feed your end down. The tourist do not want to hear us yelling back and forth. (on rope etc) bring radios if with a large group. Other then Mystery this location probably has more interaction with the public then anywhere else. Especially the chance of drilling someone with a bag. Let's not screw this place up.
The new park rules have really screwed up my kiddie canyoneering only allowing 10 people. Let's not screw this one up.

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Feeding the end down is the way to go, when there is a crowd below. Period.

Tom

[Sombeech]

If I threw a rope bag down into a crowd, I wouldn't be surprised if the extra slack rope were cut in multiple places with a sharp knife by the time I got down.

[deagol]

I did this canyon a few years back. Someone had a dog in a harness and was forcing it over the lip when I arrived. Dog was scared to death....
This was the rappel above Morning Glory Bridge/Arch, not the arch itself.

Seemed like a bad idea to me, but YMMV

[jman]

I did this canyon a few years back. Someone had a dog in a harness and was forcing it over the lip when I arrived. Dog was scared to death....
This was the rappel above Morning Glory Bridge/Arch, not the arch itself.

Seemed like a bad idea to me, but YMMV

But "little Fifi" LOVES the outdoors, and tall heights, and being helpless at 120ft dangling from a persons back...

[Canyonbug]

Great Thread and topic. I would echo what has been stated and I'll be sure to include in future instruction during courses more about the ethics of rappelling in crowded tourist areas. Shane is right, if things have to change, Canyoneers will lose. It is up to us to be the ethical ones.

[JWest11th]

I was belaying a leader on an under hang pitch when out of nowhere I hear, "ROPE" and down comes a rope from the second pitch that some idiot who had walked around to the top threw off to top rope both pitches. Needless to say I was pissed. My climber immediately lowered off of the crux to the ground and we tied the other guy's rope off on a 45 degree angle to the climb to a tree. When they came down to see what the problem was with the rope or if it was hung up they found our group waiting. As they could see our rope clipped all the way up to the roof, they knew they were in the wrong. They gathered their rope and beat feet leaving the canyon altogether. We then finished the climb. In canyoneering or climbing etiquette should be practiced. I am a little ashamed and surprised by the attitude of some climbers and canyoneers, being new to the sport isn't an excuse. I would blame this generation and the lack respect for others, but sadly it is not just them.