Chaffetz's Bill to Take Away Guns From BLM, Forest Service LE Agents

[Sandstone Addiction]

They want sub-machine guns??? Really?

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38810837&nid=148&title=rep-chaffetz-take-guns-away-from-blm-forest-service-agents


SALT LAKE CITY — Law enforcement agents with the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service are too "Rambo" to Rep. Jason Chaffetz's liking, so he wants to take away their guns and authority.

"These agents are more Rambo and less Andy Griffith than I would like," he told the Deseret News Tuesday.
Chafftez, R-Utah, said he plans to introduce a bill next week to strip those two agencies of their law enforcement authority and instead set up a system of block grants to states with a lot of federal lands within their borders to augment local law enforcement response.

"Let's not kid ourselves. The blood pressure is running high, especially in southern Utah, and I don't want anyone to get killed," Chaffetz said, adding his bill has the endorsement of his Utah colleagues in the House.

Chaffetz said he also wants to issue subpoenas to the "out of control" federal agencies to learn why they want to purchase submachine guns. He said he has had repeated meetings and sent letters to the BLM's national director, Neil Kornze, with no satisfactory response to his questions.


"I want to know what kind of arsenal they have. I'm met with blank stares," he said. "They're wholly unresponsive. They don't feel compelled to answer our letters."

He said that the BLM abruptly canceled its contracts with local county sheriff offices in Utah and relationships have diminished in a significant way. He's meeting with representative from the Utah Sheriff's Association later Tuesday to discuss his proposal.


"The BLM is refusing to do any business in Utah," he said, yet if someone is lost or injured in a national forest or BLM-managed land, it is local deputies who respond and spend the resources.

Chaffetz said it makes more sense to have elected county sheriffs with public accountability in charge of law enforcement functions in their own geographic areas.

"If it is really serious, you're going to call the FBI anyway."

The increasing militarization of certain federal agencies has caused political angst and rural pushback in Utah and other parts of the West, especially as public lands issues have become more heated.

In 2014, Rep. Chris Stewart, R-Utah, announced efforts to defund law enforcement functions of agencies that include the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Department of Education.

Stewart said the armed teams of federal agencies were doing more harm than good and are unnecessary.

Both Chaffetz and Stewart say potentially volatile situations that merit law enforcement response are best left to the area's local sheriff's offices or police who are familiar with the topography and residents. If tensions continue to escalate — such as the armed ranchers' occupation of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon earlier this year — the FBI should be called in.

[dougr]

A core goal of the left is a national police force. Using the pretexts of racial justice, environmental justice, equality justice, or social justice.

[BruteForce]

Its totally out of control. When non LE trained FDA "agents" come in to inspect a laboratory, there's a 75% chance they're coming in armed. Why? To what purpose does a pencil pusher need to be carrying a .45?

[qedcook]

I remember getting a lift from the Subway exit trailhead to the entry trailhead by a ranger. I sat in the back, next to at least ten guns, five of them were seriously intense shotguns!

[Brian in SLC]

Its totally out of control. When non LE trained FDA "agents" come in to inspect a laboratory, there's a 75% chance they're coming in armed. Why? To what purpose does a pencil pusher need to be carrying a .45?

Depends on what kind of lab, eh? I'd be surprised in any FDA agents who carry firearms aren't trained in their use. Very surprised. What lab, where?

This is an interesting turn proposed by Chaffetz. Been an effective tactic to defund organizations you don't agree with. Defunding the EPA in light of the Flint Michigan deal? Ugh.

But, putting aside my dislikes for the guy, its an interesting proposal. I watch on the news how local law enforcement take down suspected bad guys in neighborhood...and...it looks like a full on military op. Guy in O town that got served a purported "knock" search warrent...who woke up and shot a couple of cops in his home...yikes. And, for what?

That said, folks that run around on BLM land and claim some sort of "right" to it (ie, grazing cattle, etc), are more rambo and less Andy Griffith (although in reality they seem more Barney Fife...). When you got "ranchers" with assault weapons and sniper rifles...well...there ya go.

You got congressman on illegal trail ride rallies, locals tearing up BLM sings and leaving them on the doorstep of the local BLM office, etc.

If there's a law enforcement issue, a compliance issue, on federal land, how is local law enforcement going to do all that "stuff"? And, would they even?

That said, I don't appreciate my local land manager staffing their public land with guys armed to the teeth either. But, there's risk if the "public" is armed to the teeth. Crazy arms race.

I know more than a few folks in rural Utah who have 50BMG rifles at their disposal...that's some crazy horsepower for a civilian.

Crazy times...

[phatch]

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm no fan of increasing the policing efforts of the federal government. But Chaffetz's bill ignores that these areas aren't standard patrol areas for the county. They don't have the manpower or equipment for the tasks either. The counties are often poorly equipped to deal with marijuana farms (and armed farmers) on public land for instance.

Rangers are often a long way from backup or even out of radio range with the terrain issues especially. By the time you can involve the county enforcement, all rangers can hope for is a license plate that actually matches up to the perpetrator. That doesn't seem like much of a solution either.

I think Chaffetz is mostly responding the perceived electoral pressures of the Sagebrush Rebellion types such as Bundy and Finicum. While Kanab (Finicum) is not in District 3, take a look at the area that elects Chaffetz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah%2...ional_district

[BruteForce]

Depends on what kind of lab, eh? I'd be surprised in any FDA agents who carry firearms aren't trained in their use. Very surprised. What lab, where?

My former place of employment here in Salt Lake City: A microbiology lab that focuses on testing medical devices. Regulated by the FDA because that particular lab is in the "food chain" for assuring final QA of medical devices. I can guarantee you that the inspectors that came were not LE/trained in the use of their side arms.

[Sandstone Addiction]

But Chaffetz's bill ignores that these areas aren't standard patrol areas for the county. They don't have the manpower or equipment for the tasks either. The counties are often poorly equipped to deal with marijuana farms (and armed farmers) on public land for instance.

Rangers are often a long way from backup or even out of radio range with the terrain issues especially. By the time you can involve the county enforcement, all rangers can hope for is a license plate that actually matches up to the perpetrator. That doesn't seem like much of a solution either.

I listened to Congressman Chaffetz being interviewed by Doug Wright on this and he stated that the bill would reallocate the money being spent on BLM/FS LE and distribute that to the rural counties involved to hire and train additional local deputies to patrol the areas they are currently covering.

He also stated that the bill's intention was not to totally disarm rangers. He realizes they need the means to defend themselves which a 9mm handgun is all the firepower they need.

All 4 Congresspeople from Utah are co-sponsoring this bill. Senator Lee is on board as well, but he hadn't discussed this with Senator Hatch yet.

Abuse of power started long before Bundy and Finicum...

[phatch]

What is Chaffetz's stance on military equipment transfers to the police? Is there much difference if it's a ranger or a county sherrif with the sub machine gun or full auto M-4, or driving into a camp in an APC. Is the issue the type of arms? The training? The equipment?

Is this a difference without a distinction?

[Sandstone Addiction]

What is Chaffetz's stance on military equipment transfers to the police? Is there much difference if it's a ranger or a county sherrif with the sub machine gun or full auto M-4, or driving into a camp in an APC. Is the issue the type of arms? The training? The equipment?

Rural county sheriffs and deputies with full auto MP5's, M-4's, APC's, etc.? Not likely. Can't imagine why they would need anything more than what they already carry.

BLM/NPS/FS rangers don't need them either.

Is this a difference without a distinction?

The difference is it will be local people that have actual ties with the community interacting with the public, not government storm troopers.



From many personal experiences:

Small town cops: mostly good people
Big city cops: usually pretty decent
County sheriff and deputies: mostly good people--the best of all the agencies
Utah DWR officers: mostly not nice
Highway Patrol: occasionally decent
Federal LE (BLM, NPS, FS): mostly arrogant and rarely nice--the worst of all the groups

IMHO, I may be the only one...but to me there is a pattern here.

[dougr]

Small town cops: mostly good people
Big city cops: usually pretty decent
County sheriff and deputies: mostly good people--the best of all the agencies
Utah DWR officers: mostly not nice
Highway Patrol: occasionally decent
Federal LE (BLM, NPS, FS): mostly arrogant and rarely nice--the worst of all the groups

IMHO, I may be the only one...but to me there is a pattern here.

You're not the only one. Police of their communities and friends with their neighbors. That's the better way.