Zion Accident - Louis Johnson - Not Imlay Canyon

[jman]

We are so deeply saddened by this tragedy. Please keep your thoughts with Everett during this time.

Be safe in your adventures,
Jeremy & Shannon

Im sorry for your loss Jeremy & Shannon and what you had to endure there.

Thank you for sharing the details. Please let us know if you need anything from the community.



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[ratagonia]

http://suindependent.com/louis-johnson/

The quoted beta is for a different entry route into this canyon.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Also, wherever one can get beta about this canyon, it needs to be fixed. I could only imagine that these guys thoroughly checked it out? How can it be so screwed up? In just the last few minutes, I learned the there are two ways to rap that drop...a long two stage or a really long one. Watercourse or Blue Gnome...take your pick and use the right rope.

Bad beta and a lack of instant contingency for this kind of event. Everyone should know what to do, instantly, if they ever get to the end of the rope.

We have had two fatal accidents in Zion, now, that resulted from an over-fascination with the beta.

The key point here is not "to get the right beta". Getting the right beta is helpful, but not a powerful solution.

The powerful solution is to deal with the reality of the situation, rather than with the situation as described by the beta.

The beta is useful for selecting the right canyon to do, for choosing the right gear to bring, and for getting to the canyon. Once AT the canyon, the beta should be put away, and the canyon dealt with based on reality.

Both Louis and Everett had done the canyon before, using the watercourse rappel line. Very crazy that they thought rappelling that way was only 100 feet.

Tom

Pictures here: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/...r-nov-21-2014/

[darhawk]

We have had two fatal accidents in Zion, now, that resulted from an over-fascination with the beta.

The key point here is not "to get the right beta". Getting the right beta is helpful, but not a powerful solution.

The powerful solution is to deal with the reality of the situation, rather than with the situation as described by the beta.

The beta is useful for selecting the right canyon to do, for choosing the right gear to bring, and for getting to the canyon. Once AT the canyon, the beta should be put away, and the canyon dealt with based on reality.

While I agree with and very much appreciate the main thrust of the argument here, it surely goes too far in saying that beta should be put away once at the canyon, if understood to be a definitive rule. I have several times benefited from beta mid-canyon. I do tend to put it away, but then pull it out in especially puzzling spots, to be used in conjunction with the reality around me. Bluugnome in particular does such an excellent job with specifics and has helped save me lots of time and trouble in a couple of situations. I really love his beta. Still, I love the main point of the post: beware over-fascination with beta. I sometimes feel and try to resist that pull, while still taking advantage of the real help provided by clear and specific information. I feel quite comfortable tackling canyons with Bluugnome beta.

[rhouston8]

I hate reading about this. Totally different than a flood that kills new canyoneers. I am very sorry for the loss here. I dont know the folks involved.

At the risk of sounding crass (not intended).... Did he have any ascending gear (frog setup, etc) on him, know how to use such, and could he have tied off and had the guys on top "mail him " basic ascender rig to use. Or rig another rope and send someone w an ascender setup down to assist?

Assuming he rappelled double strand and was short roped and assuming both ends were tied in/locked at the anchor up top.... how about tying off, moving from the double strand to a single, then tying the 300' he had on him to that end, etc, or even having it pulled up so the top party guys could then have a separate working rope with which to begin to assist, etc?

As primarily a caver I feel that 1st people down a drop that they cant SEE rope touching the bottom should be able to do a changeover in case things go sour (short rope, tangled rope, etc). I've noticed in the canyon world that not everyone can/knows how to.

I do not know the details and my comments are not meant to inflame. I am very sorry to hear of this and my condolences are offered. What can we learn from this?

[jman]

As primarily a caver I feel that 1st people down a drop that they cant SEE rope touching the bottom should be able to do a changeover in case things go sour (short rope, tangled rope, etc). I've noticed in the canyon world that not everyone can/knows how to.

In my short span of canyoneering for almost 14years, I can say with the groups I have been invited on or have witnessed, or created myself. I have been one of two people out of 4-12 people that can safely and confidently do this.

In my experience it feels like most people treat canyoneering like a hike. "Not much to it"! Know how to tie a water knot, clove hitch, maybe know a munter and that's about it. The rest is cake walk. Let everyone else setup the rappels for you. (For those reading, this is sarcasm, please do not think like this).

The great thing is that this scenario can happen and allows noobs to go through and learn. However, this is the worst thing that can happen. So now that that leader has hurt himself, what are the noobs to do.

There are a few answers but typing them from a phone sucks! (I'll have to come back to this later.)


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[kiwi_outdoors]

the short answer is that canyoneering is a high risk sport, like Hang Gliding, because mistakes can be very damaging if not fatal. But canyoneering is deceptive because being on a rope feels like you are connected to mother earth. I survived a brief infatuation with hang gliding (crashed on my last flight) and stopped doing it. I would like to do more canyoneering, and survive, which is why I took a self-rescue course (it was about getting unstuck on rope), and tend to go canyoneering only with professionals or practicioners that I trust. The first wet canyon I did was Keyhole, with my wife and daughter, which certainly gives me a big pause to reflect on canyoneering and risk taking.

[oldno7]

Canyoneering is certainly not a high risk sport!
It is a sport of extreme ease, if one has a legitimate bag of tools and knowledge of their use.
I was taught and have taught, that on a rappel that is of unknown height and/or the bottom is not visible, rig for contingency!
This is a basic rig with several variations that allow the first rappeler to be lowered, if necessary, to a safe spot.
I wish not to offend, but KISS is not for long term canyon safety.
If all you know is double strand, take a course, become proficient, these techniques are not party tricks, they are tools that can save yours or others lives.
Condolences to the party who witnessed this tragedy, family and friends.

[Iceaxe]

Canyoneering is certainly not a high risk sport!
It is a sport of extreme ease, if one has a legitimate bag of tools and knowledge of their use.

I consider CanyoneerIng to be a high risk sport as mistakes can be deadly, unlike golf or fishing where mistakes just mean you had a bad day.

If you mess up the weather forecast in golf all that happens is you get wet. Mess up a knot fishing you just lose your hook. Mess up either of those in canyoneering and you might end up dead.

I do agree canyoneering is easy when done correctly, but some mistakes come with big penalty points. If you look at the statics we lose at least one canyoneer every year. When was the last time someone lost their life bowling or playing tennis?

[Archie]

I am new to the sport so I do not have the experience but try and think logically and want to learn to further my own knowledge. Without knowing all the details first hand as why they chose double strand versus single perhaps it was to not use a pull rope but who knows. Without being able to see the bottom of the rope would it make more sense to send the first man down on a single rope this doubling the length of the rope and once he is safely down then switch to double strand if you wish for the other people? I could be completely wrong but in the aftermath of an accident like this it makes one think of what caused the accident and what could have prevented it.

[Iceaxe]

It regards to this accident, rappelling single or double strand is a non-issue in my book as a competent canyoneer should know how to a ascend both types of situations. And if you only know how to ascend single strand I hate to break the bad news to you but you're not a competent canyoneer.

[oldno7]

I consider CanyoneerIng to be a high risk sport as mistakes can be deadly, unlike golf or fishing where mistakes just mean you had a bad day.

I would agree, I was quoting another, I meant canyoneering was not an extreme sport, there are certainly risks and mistakes come at a high price.
Training and knowledge is key, no matter the adjective describing this sport.
Despite all that--anyone can make a mistake.

[oldno7]

It regards to this accident, rappelling single or double strand is a non-issue in my book.

It's a huge issue--square peg--round hole type issue.

When I canyon, I have a whistle attached to my helmet, in a situation of an unknown length of rap I usually go down first.

Many times the rope has been varying degrees of too short. A single blast on the whistle, tells my partners to begin lowering me from the contingency set up, a double blast, indicates I've reached my landing point. Three blasts indicate I'm in trouble and require help.....

These methods can only happen using a single strand and need to be worked out by the group prior to entering the canyon.

This is not a technique for every rap in every canyon, it is a technique that is used when required.

I'll quit posting on this, in respect to those involved but it certainly is a learning moment.

[Sombeech]

When I canyon, I have a whistle attached to my helmet, in a situation of an unknown length of rap I usually go down first.

Many times the rope has been varying degrees of too short. A single blast on the whistle, tells my partners to begin lowering me from the contingency set up, a double blast, indicates I've reached my landing point. Three blasts indicate I'm in trouble and require help.....

Sounds like a great idea. Whistle codes can often be easier heard than people trying to talk or shout over a cliff's edge.

[CanyonFreak]

Two way radios are great for raps like those in heaps or class C canyons where even a whistle signal can be difficult to make out with confidence. Not worth dragging through 95% of canyons tho.

[Iceaxe]

I would agree, I was quoting another, I meant canyoneering was not an extreme sport, there are certainly risks and mistakes come at a high price.

Now we are on the same page. Canyoneering is not an extreme sport, but it is a high risk sport.

in a situation of an unknown length of rap I usually go down first.

Again i think we are answering different questions. If the length of the rap is unknown my approach to it is totally different. But in this case it appears the victim knew the length of the rappel, or to be more accurate he thought he did. But either way a competent canyoneer should know how to ascend both single and double strand ropes.

[hank moon]

Thinking about the minimum level of risk required to engage in a sport, i'd say canyoneering is moderately risky. High minimum risk could be skydiving. Extreme minimum risk? B.A.S.E. or exploratory cave diving. With canyoneering, you can always choose to do a less hazardous canyon, mitigate rappel risk with belays, and so on. So although the hazards of canyoneering may be inherently high, the risk can be greatly reduced by good risk management.

Semantically yours,

hank

[Iceaxe]

That you have to manage the risks makes my point.... there is no risk to manage in many sports.

[hank moon]

That you have to manage the risks makes my point.... there is no risk to manage in many sports.

Obviously you haven't heard of pickleball calf burn syndrome-itis.

[Sombeech]

On a side note, it looks like Louis was a member here on bogley. @Louis

I see a lot of people that knew Louis, I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm curious, has there been a funeral or viewing yet? Did anybody in this thread have a chance to go?