Oregon Shooting, 10 Dead Umpqua Community College

[Iceaxe]

With the average number of "citizens" dying from firearms averaging around 40,000 per year,.

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers, but the CDC puts the number of US homicides by firearms at 11,208 per year (2013).

Maybe you are using the new school fuzzy math?

And if we continue to see the same declines in all violent crime we have experianced over the past 30 years it will take 200 years before we approach the million number mark.

[Brian in SLC]

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers, but the CDC puts the number of US homicides by firearms at 11,208 per year (2013).

Maybe you are using the new school fuzzy math?

Ooops...I read the chart wrong...closer to 30k per year average. So...only 750,000. Not just homicides, all firearms deaths, including suicide and accidental. Still seems like a big number.

http://www.gunfaq.org/wp-content/upl...hs-traffic.jpg

Interesting....the comparison of traffic fatalities v gun deaths. There's a huge push to reduce (and effectively, it seems) traffic fatalities even given increased speeds on most freeways. Mandatory seat belt laws, etc.

What would be a reasonable push to reduce gun deaths? Surely mental health is a HUGE player. Education?

Probably not driven by homicides, per se, but, gun deaths on the slight increase. I think I recall seeing that suicide by firearm on an increase.

Sorry for the fuzzy math. Actually, its fuzzy eyesight...(blurred lines...why is that song in my head...)...

[BruteForce]

I think I recall seeing that suicide by firearm on an increase.

I wonder how the 22 military veteran suicides per day since the onset of the conflicts in 2001 is impacting these gun death totals. Sad..

[Brian in SLC]

I wonder how the 22 military veteran suicides per day since the onset of the conflicts in 2001 is impacting these gun death totals. Sad..

Its a big impact. Really sad.

Lost a friend a couple years ago. Left us all wondering...what the hell...

At least when you gobble a bunch of pills...you might come to your senses and call the ER, or a friend. Ugh.

[Rob L]

Since you brought up Germany I assume you don't know that the atrocities happened AFTER the German people were disarmed.....


A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

56 million defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

Funny how these numbers never make the evening news.

With guns, we are "citizens". Without them, we are "subjects".

Iceaxe. I disagree with the sentiment behind most, if not all, of your stuff above. If all of those poor souls had their own guns, are you seriously suggesting they would not have died? And how many would they, with these guns, killed?


However, we may have to agree to disagree.

Rob

[Iceaxe]

Ooops...I read the chart wrong...closer to 30k per year average. So...only 750,000. Not just homicides, all firearms deaths, including suicide and accidental. Still seems like a big number.

I guess you can skew the numbers any way you like.... but.... I think you need to exclude suicide by firearm. If you look at Australia you will notice the suicide rate remained steady after their gun ban and confiscation. Yes, the rate of suicide by firearm decreased, but suicide by hanging increased proportionally, and the overall rate of suicide remained unchanged. Below is more info on the subject put out by the Australian government stating one method has been substituted for another.


Trends in hanging and firearm suicide rates in Australia: substitution of method?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12882416.

Yes, suicide is a big problem and does skew the death by firearm numbers, but banning firearms will not change the number of suicides.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW- I noticed 11,208 is the number Obama is using in his gun control campaign. He actually uses the number "over 10,000".

[Iceaxe]

11,208 sounds like a big number until you put it in perspective.

[Brian in SLC]

11,208 sounds like a big number until you put it in perspective.

Take out grandpa fallin' in the shower and your death by accidental fall numbers plummet....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Had no idear so many people die of the flu...

Drug-induced deaths: 46,471
Alcohol-induced deaths: 29,001
Injury by firearms: 33,636

Crazy stuff...

[Rob L]

11,208 sounds like a big number until you put it in perspective.

So that's alright then (phew!)

[Sombeech]

We've gotta quit lumping the gun suicides in with the gun homicide numbers. People don't decide to commit suicide because there's a gun.

When the FrontRunner train tracks were built, going through the Clearfield area just a few blocks from my house, we started seeing suicides by jumping in front of the train. If the train wasn't there, they would have chosen the gun.

But at least those train suicides didn't count towards any distorted "stats" of gun violence.

[Brian in SLC]

We've gotta quit lumping the gun suicides in with the gun homicide numbers. People don't decide to commit suicide because there's a gun.

Well...its not like we can ask them, eh?

Its gun deaths. If you just want to address homicides, fine for whatever solution you are (or are not) proposing.

Suicide by gun is a huge number. If guns weren't available...would the number be lower? I'd guess so. Murder/suicide would probably be lower. Guns make it easy, that's for sure. Too easy? Maybe.

Accidental deaths by gun? Not a huge number but it adds to the total.

[oldno7]

latest gallup poll on NRA favorability.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/186284/de...campaign=tiles

[oldno7]

hmmm--the NRA is more favorable than leading democrats......


According to a Gallup Poll between Oct.19-21, just under 50 percent approve of Obama’s job performance, while 45 percent disapprove. Meanwhile, in a NBC/Wall Street Journal survey of Americans taken Oct. 15-18, 39 percent of those surveyed had a favorable view of Clinton, compared to 48 percent with an unfavorable view.

[Iceaxe]

Think of the lives saved if we outlawed cars....

4 killed, 44 hurt when car hits crowd at Oklahoma State parade
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=37082251&nid=1313

[oldno7]

Think of the lives saved if we outlawed cars....

4 killed, 44 hurt when car hits crowd at Oklahoma State parade
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=37082251&nid=1313

Or alcoholic beverages....ban em,,every one who drinks, gets in a car and kills people...

[Rob L]

Think of the lives saved if we outlawed cars....

4 killed, 44 hurt when car hits crowd at Oklahoma State parade
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=37082251&nid=1313

I agree. Ban cars, give everyone a pair of hiking boots. You'd get rid of all those fat slobs doing the school run in their Chelsea tractors and improve the nation's health. That of my nation as well as yours.