Eye of the Needle

[qedcook]

I tried to find a friend who was willing to pay $400 to go to Eye of the Needle with Zion Adventure Company without any luck. Anyone interested in joining me sometime, so that the cost is reduced?

I was thinking Memorial Day.

[Canyonater]

I tried to find a friend who was willing to pay $400 to go to Eye of the Needle with Zion Adventure Company without any luck. Anyone interested in joining me sometime, so that the cost is reduced?

I was thinking Memorial Day.

unfortunately $400 is a pretty hard to swallow especially when everything else is virtually free. I wish you luck though.

[Iceaxe]

Eye of the Needle is cool, but it is really short and very straight forward compared to other technical routes in Zion. I'm just curious why anyone who doesn't require a guide would pony up $400? There are literally several dozen other Zion routes as good or better than Eye of the Needle which are free or only require the cost of a permit.

[Slot Machine]

Sorry to jack this thread, but I read a good book the other day. Free from the library.

[Brian in SLC]

Reminds me...my breakfast's almost ready....how do you folks like your eggs?

[spinesnaper]

I paid the private guide fee. The next day I did Imlay. I got some fantastic photos in Eye of the Needle (see below). I hope you find someone to share the fee with. I say if you have the money, it is worth the dollars. Otherwise, I think Brian and Bob are trying to send you a message.

[Iceaxe]

Going through Eye of the Needle with a guide gets you a different adventure over doing it as a privateer. The guides do it as a short canyon and set a rope to jug back out. If you do it as a privateer you are going out the MIA Exit, or out the Narrows. The MIA is a long day. The Narrows option is a two day adventure.

[qedcook]

This particular canyon seems logistically more difficult to poach than other canyons. Am I wrong?

[Iceaxe]

It's actually one of the easiest to poach as you are not dealing with the park service. If caught you will most likely be dealing with a mad landowner, which could be good or bad depending on the individuals involved.

[ratagonia]

This particular canyon seems logistically more difficult to poach than other canyons. Am I wrong?

What day are you planning? Monday, Memorial Day? I'll have the sheriff keep a lookout for you.

If you are going to poach it, I suggest:

A. not talking about it in public, such as on a public forum aka Bogley;

B. Not bragging about it afterwards;

C. not leaving a car down there.

Tom

[qedcook]

What day are you planning? Monday, Memorial Day? I'll have the sheriff keep a lookout for you.

If you are going to poach it, I suggest:

A. not talking about it in public, such as on a public forum aka Bogley;

B. Not bragging about it afterwards;

C. not leaving a car down there.

Tom

I don't want to poach, and I don't plan on it. I'm planning on using the ZAC. Thus the purpose of the thread (but thanks for the tip).

[Brian in SLC]

What day are you planning? Monday, Memorial Day? I'll have the sheriff keep a lookout for you.

Honestly, I'm sure local LEO's have much, much better things to do.

What "we" need to do is get some access. Public access. Its a fun canyon. So is the upper fork (whatever the kids are calling it nowadays).

Private landowners have locked off access to that entire section of land, public land, on the far side of Kolob Creek. Just doesn't seem fair to me. Should be an easement or some kind of public right of way.

I think most folks ascend up fixed ropes pre-placed rather than walk all the way out the MIA. Heard tell there was an optimal location for that, but, not sure where. We fixed both Cave and Eye of the Needle and traded car keys. Efficient.

Does ZAC just jug back up the Eye?

Funner would be a via ferrata...ha ha.

[Iceaxe]

I thought the ACA or CAC or who ever they are was supposed to work on access? I hear of their work in SoCal and the Grand Canyon but nothing in Utah. Zion is the epicenter of US canyoneering, seems someone from the group should be working on access in the Zion area. All of Oak Creek needs to be opened up along with the access issues for Red Cave worked out.

[2065toyota]

The ascending is done up a slot north of the needle called the chute. It is done in 3 pitches. The ropes are not left fixed but are set and removed each trip. As in one person - the guide - has to ascend the ropes twice

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[nelsonccc]

The ascending is done up a slot north of the needle called the chute. It is done in 3 pitches. The ropes are not left fixed but are set and removed each trip. As in one person - the guide - has to ascend the ropes twice

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Yep, though I think the chute has 4 raps. We were able to easily fix ropes down it even with big snow drifts in there. It's actually a pretty easy accent and the lookout there above the first rap is petty cool looking down into the confluence.

[2065toyota]

We only used 3. One is super easy non exposed short climb

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[jman]

You'll like it Qedcook - it's a fun one. It took my buddy Jeff and I about 45mins total to jug the 450 or so feet back to the top.

Take your time on the raps, especially Eye of the Needle rap. Especially when you are paying top dollar. Don't be in a rush to be the first man down.

If you haven't seen our video of our trip, give it a look here - http://youtu.be/z0bedmTT1hY

[townsend]

..

[Rob L]

Regarding access through private land to (what is now) public lands:

Shirley there was a time when this private land was not private, and should there be, therefore, "grandfather" rights of access? As long as no damage to property is done, and gates closed, and persons & livestock unmolested.

Does this right not exists in the USA?

A quick internet enquiry indicates not, but that:

In an action for trespass on land, the plaintiff could recover damages for the defendant's forcible interference with the plaintiff's possession of his land. Even the slightest entry onto the land without the plaintiff's permission gave the plaintiff the right to damages in a nominal sum.

(source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/trespass)

Therefore this might suggest that advance negotiations with the landowner (possibly including consideration in lieu of "damages") prior to entering the land might avert any angst.

I did this many moons ago when I wanted to access Wildcat Canyon from private land near Kolob Reservoir. The (then) landowner was only grateful that I had taken the trouble to ask, and refused any payment.

[ratagonia]

Regarding access through private land to (what is now) public lands:

Surely there was a time when this private land was not private, and should there be, therefore, "grandfather" rights of access? As long as no damage to property is done, and gates closed, and persons & livestock unmolested.

Does this right not exist in the USA?

A quick internet inquiry indicates not, but that:

(source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/trespass)

Therefore this might suggest that advance negotiations with the landowner (possibly including consideration in lieu of "damages") prior to entering the land might avert any angst.

I did this many moons ago when I wanted to access Wildcat Canyon from private land near Kolob Reservoir. The (then) landowner was only grateful that I had taken the trouble to ask, and refused any payment.

Trespass is covered by state law, and thus varies widely from state to state. In this specific case:

1. S fork of Oak Creek is on private land.

2. No right to pass has been established in this area. Until a right to pass is established, it does not exist.

3. Driving down the private road into the area is a trespass, as the road is marked No Trespassing.

4. From a practical point of view, the private road is currently temporarily open to the public as there is land for sale in the area which potential buyers are welcome to go look at. PARKING there is not advisable, though the sheriff is a long way away and not all that psyched to come up and impound vehicles. However, the gate allowing access to the road could be locked at any time.

Tom