Passing a knot

[nkanarik]

OK...so I tried Todd's method. I was able to do the "pass the knot" fairly easily, after experimenting with the right # of friction loops on my VT (it wasn't "grabbing" on the 8mm rope I practiced with only 3 friction loops, so I ended up adding a 1-2 loops. I also used a tether for between VT and harness.).

• The fact that VT can slide down if being bumped and knowing that all that is holding me at that point it the VT is kind of scary (even when I have the chicken loop and the knot itself as a backup).
• I also noticed that dragging the VT for 6' down (due to the extra rope of locking off the CRITR) requires more than just "Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot." --> not sure if I was doing something wrong

Todd's method is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed). I'm happy I'm familiar with it, but will use it as my secondary one.

• I haven't tried Tom's method yet...will try it out later.

Thanks

[hank moon]

Todd's method is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed).

More practice + experimentation, yes.

Bet your first rappel wasn't too smooth, either (mine sure wasn't)

[MrAdam]

OK...so I tried Todd's method. I was able to do the "pass the knot" fairly easily, after experimenting with the right # of friction loops on my VT (it wasn't "grabbing" on the 8mm rope I practiced with only 3 friction loops, so I ended up adding a 1-2 loops. I also used a tether for between VT and harness.).

• The fact that VT can slide down if being bumped and knowing that all that is holding me at that point it the VT is kind of scary (even when I have the chicken loop and the knot itself as a backup).
• I also noticed that dragging the VT for 6' down (due to the extra rope of locking off the CRITR) requires more than just "Carefully "bump" or caress the top of the loaded VT until it slides down towards the knot." --> not sure if I was doing something wrong

Todd's method is using less gear, but in my mind, it is less smooth than mine (maybe more practice is needed). I'm happy I'm familiar with it, but will use it as my secondary one.

• I haven't tried Tom's method yet...will try it out later.

Thanks

How are you tying the VT? If you tie it as a Valditon Tresse, three wraps to start and then criss cross the strands tightly with the rest of the slack, it works much better for passing knots.

[nkanarik]

How are you tying the VT? If you tie it as a Valditon Tresse, three wraps to start and then criss cross the strands tightly with the rest of the slack, it works much better for passing knots.

As VT with 4 wraps instead of 3 wraps.

[dougr]

Another variation...

I use a Shunt above the rap device as my backup. On every serious rap. Slides easy on sandy ropes, releases under full load, and makes passing a knot simple since it's always in passing a knot mode.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

[nkanarik]

Another variation...

I use a Shunt above the rap device as my backup. On every serious rap. Slides easy on sandy ropes, releases under full load, and makes passing a knot simple since it's always in passing a knot mode.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

This is extra HW though :)

[harness man]

I have an old shunt somewhere in the closet...
Releases while under load (while you are hanging from it)?
Not the one I have used.
Also not rated/recommended for single line 8mm

[hank moon]

I have an old shunt somewhere in the closet...
Releases while under load (while you are hanging from it)?
Not the one I have used.
Also not rated/recommended for single line 8mm

The SHUNT does release under load pretty easily. BUT, don't expect to slide nicely down the rope under control. More like release and drop, especially on skinny lines, and yeah, not rated for 8mm single line.

It is *possible* with much practice (and fine motor control) to develop the skill to descend a few inches or feet (more or less) under control, but not worth the effort IMO if you don't already possess such skill.

[dougr]

The Shunt is easy to unload with feet on a wall, and reasonably easy when free hanging. When the latter it just requires a little bouncing in the harness and a strong palm squeeze. I know others find it hard, but for some reason I haven't.

I'm not sure why lack of descent control is critical here. I reattach the rap device below the knot, snug it up to it, get the brake line fixed, release the Shunt, drop a few inches, done.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2

[MiCamp]

I'm not sure why lack of descent control is critical here.

Ehh, cause I'm descending and I'd like to make it smooth and safe.

If I had a couple of 1/2 inch bolts sunk into granite and a dynamic line, dropping a couple inches or feet wouldn't be much of a deal.
But on a static line already loaded and with a marginal anchor??? No way!

[oldno7]

Just thought I might add a tip.

When you go to remove your rappel device from above a knot,

attach a tether to it prior to removal.

Then, after re attaching rappel device below knot, remove tether to rappel device.

Failure to do this can result in a dropped rappel device and leave you hangin'.(or so a "friend" told me)

You can use anything as a tether for this and it doesn't need to attach to a belay loop, it only has

to secure the weight of a dropped rappel device.

[nkanarik]

Agree it's a good practice to secure the rappel device to avoid losing it. If dropping the rappel device, you can always apply PMMO below the knot, and rappel on a Munter.

[hank moon]

Droppable rappel device? Sooo last century...

[deagol]

yeah, something like a CRITR, or even a Piranha stays on the biner pretty tight..

[oldno7]

Droppable rappel device? Sooo last century...

This technology, what will they think of next--rappeling off sticks?

[dougr]

Ehh, cause I'm descending and I'd like to make it smooth and safe.

Ha ha, yes, descent control on descent is a good thing.

But I meant more specifically, dropping a few inches while unloading after passing a knot is not a big whoop in most cases. Even static lines have single figure elongation. But yes, if you were using a sketchy anchor on a rap long enough to need knot passing, then I wouldn't want to be dropping either. But then I personally wouldn't be doing that long a rap on a sketchy anchor.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk 2